196 replies to this topic

[General Taskeen]

Carl Avery, on 13 August 2014 - 08:35 AM, said:

We're doing IS vs. Clan tonight, right? How do we handle the skill-pool balancing? Some people might not have both IS and Clan 'mechs, so switching highest-for-lowest might not work, but I imagine that many of us do own both both IS and Clan, now that the Uller / Kitfox is out for C-bills. (I do, but the little blighter isn't even basic'd yet.)

You may choose IS vs IS ; IS vs Clan ; or Clan vs Clan on "Clan Invasion Era" days. Tech 1 and Tech 2 stocks allowed.

For skill-balancing just go with what works best, usually people switch out highest damage dealers on each team. "IS vs Clan" usually is uneven numbers for balancing in stock (more IS Mechs vs less Clan Mechs).

[Bishop Steiner]

General Taskeen, on 13 August 2014 - 10:17 AM, said:

You may choose IS vs IS ; IS vs Clan ; or Clan vs Clan on "Clan Invasion Era" days. Tech 1 and Tech 2 stocks allowed.

For skill-balancing just go with what works best, usually people switch out highest damage dealers on each team. "IS vs Clan" usually is uneven numbers for balancing in stock (more IS Mechs vs less Clan Mechs).

Can I bring mah Summoner?!?!?!?

[General Taskeen]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 August 2014 - 05:14 PM, said:

Can I bring mah Summoner?!?!?!?

If all the players would prefer IS vs Clan or Clan/Clan, then sure. Just be aware I'm out for the next couple weeks with comp issues, but others will likely be playing.

Per these lists (forum list) (google doc list), you can use the following stock summoners:

Summoner PRIME: one ERPPC, one LBX/10, one LRM15 *NOTE: This is supposed to have only one ton of Standard "Slug" ammo, you can switch out the LBX/10 for the correct standard Clan AC and round if you wish
Summoner A: one Gauss, one LPL, one SRM6 (extra stock buildable)
Summoner B: two LRM20, one NARC, two SRM4, AMS
Summoner C: one UAC20, one ERML, one ERSL, one SSRM6 (extra stock buildable)
Summoner D: two ERLL, two ERML, two MG, AMS

[Malleus011]

Had fun fighting the mighty Clanners tonight. I gotta get me a stock Griffin 3M.

[HlynkaCG]

Gotta say I had a lot of fun.

[Rhaythe]

The last two matches I played were pretty one-sided stompy. Did the IS improve any?

Also - videos en route...

[Malleus011]

Our final match we fiddled with the numbers some - I think it was 5v8, or close to that - and it came down to a close fight at the end - on Alpine.

That was a really interesting set of drops. Most of the IS 'mechs (not all) were Tech 1. The Clan team fought well together; they felt like fighting Clan pilots. In every match the IS had a weight advantage, but I think the numbers advantage was more important.

The teams also *felt* like IS and Clan; the Clanners were in coordinated groups of matching builds in matching paint, the IS team was a bunch of mismatched 'mechs of both tech levels with no two painted alike. But we still did OK in some of the matches, despite that.

We learned (again) that we can't win long-range fights with a Clan group, and we'll struggle to maneuver well against a faster Clan group. Our next-best effort was on Crimson, where we were able to push into a close action fairly soon.

Are the Clans balanced vs IS? 1v1, same tonnage, heck no. They're still superior machines despite the weapon mechanics. When we got a numbers and tonnage advantage, the fights started to feel closer. 10v12 might balance OK in the general queue, but I think for Stock matches, we'll need fewer Clans to make up for the tech imbalance.

Had a lot of fun, though.

[Rhaythe]

Okay...! Videos time:

[Malleus011]

Ouch, yeah - at least we pulled the first one out. Clan 'mechs are good, and those were well played.

[Carl Avery]

I'd be willing to try this { stock Tech-1 Inner Sphere } versus { stock Clans } one more time, because I was too tired to give a reasonable performance last night (I rate my piloting "appalling" in the last two matches -- sorry, guys).

However, I think I would only try this one more time; if it turned out to be as one-sided as I felt last night was, T1 IS vs. Clan isn't for me. I don't even think I'd enjoy it from the Clan's side; I'd feel guilty, knowing that I was defeating my enemy because of superior tech rather than skill.

It's true that part of the reason we lost was because of lack of coordination (and, you know, some of us piloting like crap, besides) on our side, while the other side was an organized unit, but I think I have enough familiarity with both general balance and stock balance to say this with certainty: the match was not even, even disregarding the skill pool imbalance. An extra ~150–200 tons isn't enough to make up for grossly inferior T1 tech, let alone IS vs. Clan -- not with 10 vs. 10. It might make the difference if it it was star-versus-double-lance, but ...

Again, I'd be willing to give it another shot, so I could see what it's like when I'm more rested & alert, but I believe my assessment to be accurate regardless, and I expect we'd have gotten roflstomped just the same if I had been playing well.

Edited by Carl Avery, 14 August 2014 - 01:05 PM.

[General Taskeen]

@Carl, on "Clan Invasion Era" days you can use Tech 1 and Tech 2 stocks (in other words "3050" Tech).

So whether people decide ISvsIS, ClanvsClan, or ClanvsIS - both tech 1 and tech 2 stocks are allowed.

For instance, if you were to play as IS, you can use a Griffin-3M or Awesome-9M or Battlemaster-3M, etc.

For a list of the Tech 2 stocks, you can check the forum list here.

[Carl Avery]

I know. But most of us IS stock players only have T1. Out of the 10 'mechs on our side last night, only 3 were T2, and the other 7 were T1. The only 'mech I own which is { T2 when stock } is the Raven 3L, and I'm sure that this wouldn't fare any better in combat against the Clans than my better T1 'mechs do -- even with the ECM. ECM wouldn't have made much of a difference last night, as it was primarily lasers that were tearing us apart, and we couldn't have used the stealth to tactically reposition, because our battle group had to be so much slower than theirs (53 KPH vs. 89 KPH).

The tonnage, too -- our team was aware that we didn't have enough of a tonnage advantage, but we were unable to ton up any more because most of us were already in our heaviest 'mechs. Not everyone has an Atlas. My heaviest stock 'mech is an Awesome 8Q ...

Edited by Carl Avery, 15 August 2014 - 01:36 AM.

[Carl Avery]

I just examined the IS T2 list in detail and discovered that several of the "extra stock buildables" can be made into more feasible 'mechs than the Tech 1 stuff we brought, using the same chassis. This changes things; I have an upgraded CatK2 that I could easily fit to this (while still keeping my second K2 at T1 stock for the T1 stock matches), and this would be more suitable for fighting the Clans.

I was not aware that there were so many extra stock possibilities for T2 IS 'mechs. If I wasn't, I'll bet that quite a few others aren't, either. I wonder how many of us yesterday were in the boat I was in -- unhappily aware of how inadequate our { stock T1 IS } are versus { stock T2 Clan }, but not realizing that some of our upgraded 'mechs could be converted at low cost to intra-game { canonical Tech 2 builds }.

I'm still dubious about T2 IS being competitive with T2 Clan, but it certainly would be a lot closer than T1 was. I've been looking for an excuse to downgrade my second CatK2 to standard structure, to try to experiment with heatsink-heavy builds in public games -- the K3 looks like just the excuse I need.
: )

Edited by Carl Avery, 15 August 2014 - 02:00 AM.

[General Taskeen]

That's understandable Carl. And yes, there are quite a few builds . I definitely recommend the K3 for T2 - The Kurita went a little overboard with the 20DHS.

As far as balance goes, T2 clan stuff in this game tends be a bit much. In MW4 and MW:LL, I felt the Techs were more closely matched in stock forms, but we'll have to work out best methods for dealing with balancing in this game for stocks.

[Malleus011]

I'll have to go read that list. I assumed it was only the handful of Tech 2 stocks - like the Griffin 3M.

[VtTimber]

<cough> CES-3R Caesar <cough>

That's my ride when I have the time to do T2 Wednesdays. XL's suck but the increase in firepower is noticeable.

[Malleus011]

I'm tempted by the BLR-3M-DC ... because Artillery strikes with Advanced Artillery module ...

[Rhaythe]

Someone back me up on this, but would this Anansi build be a replica of the Panther-9R for Wednesday nights?

Source: http://www.mordel.ne...php?a=vt&id=191 and http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Panther

[General Taskeen]

We'll see Rhaythe, its the closest yet for sure and people are itching for a Panther (you would need to downgrade to a 120 though to attain same stock speed 64.8 as a Panther due to the weight differences).

It would be absolute heresy if the Panther is not added to the game for realz. One of my favs is the Panther-12A and the old Star League 8Z variant (with 100% armor).

[Rhaythe]

You'd have to drop an additional heat sink on the CT to make up for the lost one from the engine if you want to keep the 13 heat sinks called for by the build, but it works:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d2930a9a7cc948