238 replies to this topic

[MortVent]

TimePeriod, on 11 May 2014 - 10:21 AM, said:

I didn't realize we were talking about 12vs12 elite high elo groups, I just assumed this was a standard PUG.

-Terrain varies, I can fire around houses/apartment blocks from time to time.
-Ecm is counted by 40.000 CBills x (up to 12)
- Screw stability, by that time you should have missiles in the air as otherwise the target will be in cover before your missiles even get near it.

Its all about getting as many missiles in the air as fast as possible.

PUGs don't usually drop cbills on consumables.

PUGs are random, so any team can have an assortment of ecm mechs

And a good lrm pilot cares how long they can maintain lock... a good lock means they can guide the missile in vs hoping the target is still standing there going durr.

As for it about 12man high elo... consider that strawman doused in JP4 and lit on fire. PUGs often range from no ecm, to oh god they all got ecm random groups.

[DarthPeanut]

OP was troll posting to start an LRM thread, math does not work.

Pretty much makes this thread useless to continue contributing to.

Edited by DarthPeanut, 11 May 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[KAT Ayanami]

Aeten, on 11 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

Yesterday I got sick of brawling in my HBK-4SP so I figured what the hell - I'll slap some LRM 5s on there in place of the SSRM 2s I'd been using. See if the buff was really that big. Only put 2 tons of ammo on the thing.

Never ever approached the battle - never had reason to fire any of my 4 lasers. Simply stood on a little hill near spawn (this was River City Night) and repeatedly fired my missiles.

The result: ~350 damage; 110k c-bills. For doing nothing. Just sitting there and not ever even being shot at. I could have taught my cat how to do this.

The worst part is that my full brawling fit on this mech; 2 LPL, 2 ML, 2 SRM 6 typically does not do this well. I usually do less damage and get less c-bills. Looks like I found my new c-bill farmer. I can't even imagine how much damage you would do with a dedicated LRM boat. Probably break 1000 easily. I mean 2 LRM 5 is not even an LRM fit. It's an afterthought; and yet it rewards 350 damage with no risk to the mech pilot...

Well, if you say so. After ONE GAME. It must be true.

[MortVent]

TimePeriod, on 11 May 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Tell that to the Firestarter-FS9S when he tried to jump jet around a corner. Missiles are not OP, they are eeeezeeiiee-mode.

And I don't even pilot a dedicated LRM-boat, I use a modified Protector with a 15/10.

With lrms that's a trick shot... with streaks that's another day at the office. With direct fire weapons, he'd never have made it to cover.

try again

[Roland]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

With lrms that's a trick shot... with streaks that's another day at the office. With direct fire weapons, he'd never have made it to cover.

try again

Except with direct fire weapons you actually have to aim them.

[Vermaxx]

Kyynele, on 11 May 2014 - 10:00 AM, said:

Yes, they do allow bad players to play really badly and still feel like they got something done. They can be true easy mode if your team does all the work for you. As long as the opposing team doesn't have mass ECM, or stay in cover. Or have AMS. Or have lights, or (jump)snipers that can aim. You'll get acquainted with those in time.

So basically LRMs are hell on PUG forces except in those rare instances when one team is set up to avoid them. AMS isn't helping like it used to either.

[TimePeriod]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

With lrms that's a trick shot... with streaks that's another day at the office. With direct fire weapons, he'd never have made it to cover.

try again

Not really caring if you believe me or not, my missiles still did what I saw with my own two eyes.

[MortVent]

Roland, on 11 May 2014 - 10:36 AM, said:

Except with direct fire weapons you actually have to aim them.

Here is a clue:

You still have to aim missiles to get a lock... and maintain the lock. It don't automagically lock simply by clicking R... you have to do more than hit R and then your fire button.

With direct fire it's aim, shoot. Done.
With missiles it's aim, lock after a couple seconds, fire, maintain lock till impact, done. and if you lose lock, they might still hit if the target is stationary.. at the location the lock was lost at.

[Murasama]

Wolfways, on 11 May 2014 - 10:22 AM, said:

Do you actually read what you're writing? lol
Anyone out in the open gets obliterated by any weapons...like they should.

The whole point of lights are to scout and disengage. It takes skill to hit a light at medium to long range with energy or ballistics, even when they are out in the open.

Look I'm not saying make lights completely impervious to lrm fire, like they were during closed beta. Just allow them a chance to calculate a proper escape vector to minimize damage. A slight lrm speed nerf would accomplish this.

[Roland]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

Here is a clue:

You still have to aim missiles to get a lock... and maintain the lock. It don't automagically lock simply by clicking R... you have to do more than hit R and then your fire button.

It's not really the same kind of aiming. With missiles, you are simply aiming at a large red box which is large than the entire mech. With direct fire, you are aiming at a specific location on the mech, which is much smaller.

Quote

With direct fire it's aim, shoot. Done.

But you need to actually be able to aim.

What's funny is that a lot of the folks who try and minimize the skill required by direct fire weapons, are also the same people who complain that light mechs are too strong and hard to hit... which would suggest that they are actually incapable of that kind of aiming.

[TimePeriod]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

With direct fire it's aim, shoot. Done.

I dare you to do that vs a 150kph ECM spider, make my day.

[MortVent]

TimePeriod, on 11 May 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

I dare you to do that vs a 150kph ECM spider, make my day.

cored one with my jester, he turned the corner and found me at optimal erppc range... sucked for him

Edit: course that was team work, he was running from a team mate... and we coordinated to catch the lil pest in a crossfire

Edited by MortVent, 11 May 2014 - 11:01 AM.

[Tezcatli]

This notion only works when:
-Enemy team has no ECM.
-Your team is spotting.
-Or they do have ECM, but your team has tag or NARC.
-And of course the enemy team doesn't use any cover and ventures out into the open like they're in la la land.

When I run LRMs. I do well. But I also engage them in line of sight most of the time. Usually within 600 meters. And I use tag. I don't waste ammo on across the zone missile barrage unless they're in the open or we're just trading shots in general.

[TimePeriod]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

cored one with my jester, he turned the corner and found me at optimal erppc range... sucked for him

Edit: course that was team work, he was running from a team mate... and we coordinated to catch the lil pest in a crossfire

With autocannons? I didn't know ERPPC's were autocannons. Please enlighten me with such amazing new machinery!

[MortVent]

TimePeriod, on 11 May 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

With autocannons? I didn't know ERPPC's were autocannons. Please enlighten me with such amazing new machinery!

here is a hint. Ac/5s at the same range would hit about as fast. check your projectile speeds ;3 200ms difference (1300 vs 1500 for the ppcs) AC/2s would be actually faster to target (2000ms)

Far sight faster than a lrms 120ms...

[TimePeriod]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 11:10 AM, said:

here is a hint. Ac/5s at the same range would hit about as fast. check your projectile speeds ;3 200ms difference (1300 vs 1500 for the ppcs) AC/2s would be actually faster to target (2000ms)

Far sight faster than a lrms 120ms...

Which makes my shot all the more amazing, with less speed, less FLD, far more spread out damage and a lot less skill (irony).

At least >I< can keep track of what weapons I use.

Edited by TimePeriod, 11 May 2014 - 11:15 AM.

[wanderer]

Aeten, on 11 May 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

Yesterday I got sick of brawling in my HBK-4SP so I figured what the hell - I'll slap some LRM 5s on there in place of the SSRM 2s I'd been using. See if the buff was really that big. Only put 2 tons of ammo on the thing.

Never ever approached the battle - never had reason to fire any of my 4 lasers. Simply stood on a little hill near spawn (this was River City Night) and repeatedly fired my missiles.

The result: ~350 damage; 110k c-bills. For doing nothing. Just sitting there and not ever even being shot at. I could have taught my cat how to do this.

The worst part is that my full brawling fit on this mech; 2 LPL, 2 ML, 2 SRM 6 typically does not do this well. I usually do less damage and get less c-bills. Looks like I found my new c-bill farmer. I can't even imagine how much damage you would do with a dedicated LRM boat. Probably break 1000 easily. I mean 2 LRM 5 is not even an LRM fit. It's an afterthought; and yet it rewards 350 damage with no risk to the mech pilot...

So let's see. 350 damage at 1.1/missile (roughly, since crits add more damage) = roughly 320 missile hits, so about 32 shots worth of LRMs got through. How many did you fire?

Also, remember that you fired the LRMs. You not being in range to be hit back means everyone else took that much more fire in your place, and you likely had targets with 0 ECM and little if any AMS capacity, which given any amount of use turns two LRM 5's into firing confetti at your opponents. The risk still exists- it was spread on your team, if nobody was bright enough to follow the missile trails back to your 'Mech and engage you.

You had excellent luck there- a team that could hold locks, an enemy utterly unprepared for even the most trivial LRM bombardment, and on one of the worst maps for using missiles normally at that. Now, use those LRMs on a regular basis and get familiar with how good or bad they really can be- it's all going to depend on the map and the defensive posture of your opponents, and you'll be surprised at how much your "little girls" can be very good when they're good, and how horrid they get when they're bad. Your opinion may shift considerably, especially if you end up paired against more skilled opponents than your OP-stated match.

[MortVent]

TimePeriod, on 11 May 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Which makes my shot all the more amazing, with less speed, less FLD, far more spread out damage and a lot less skill (irony).

At least >I< can keep track of what weapons I use.

Oh btw:

You said do it with direct fire weapons. Which PPCs are.
Not autocannons specifically... so keep trying to change the bar, eventually you drop it on your foot like now.

[Kyynele]

TimePeriod, on 11 May 2014 - 11:07 AM, said:

With autocannons? I didn't know ERPPC's were autocannons. Please enlighten me with such amazing new machinery!

You dared him to hit a spider with direct fire, ERPPCs very much count. Do you read your own posts?

Edited by Kyynele, 11 May 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[TimePeriod]

MortVent, on 11 May 2014 - 11:17 AM, said:

Oh btw:

You said do it with direct fire weapons. Which PPCs are.
Not autocannons specifically... so keep trying to change the bar, eventually you drop it on your foot like now.

They are energy weapons