152 replies to this topic

[K4t4k1s]

Prezimonto, on 15 May 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

Not going to lie. I won't by purchasing anything from PGI unless UI 2.0 gets a lot more usable and CW is really great.

Until this game is more than team death match big stompy robots, I've spent my last.

And UI 2.0 has been the biggest reason I went from playing hours a week to a handful of matches a week, on patch weeks, or less. The last remaining unique fun, for me, in this game's current state is playing with different mech builds, and UI 2.0, makes that more of a chore than fun.

Yes, true. Same with me. I check regular website for crucial updates. I havent played for a long time in a constant way I used to before Clan Invasion announcement and UI 2.0. Since that time, I havent changed any mech layout at all anymore.

Just since a couple of free days of mine, I have played a bit. Still, core game is fun. But that's not enough for me on the long run. I really hope they give hope.

Regards

[Harbinger Prime]

Curccu, on 14 May 2014 - 10:40 PM, said:

Umm didn't FASA sell rights to MS, which is leasing them to PGIGP?

Ah the that explains a lot. Oh well if that is the case the game is doomed because they will milk PGI who will have to milk the game until the cow/game dies. Unless Smith & Tinker can get the rights soon then it is back to being Jordan Weisman baby and then there is hope.

Edited by Harbinger Prime, 15 May 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[K4t4k1s]

P.S. It's really about communication.

Just tell people if you have not enough people or any sort of problems, but still let people know you are working on it. I'm sure most of your supporters will understand.

Regards

[ZenTeapot]

GM Reppu, on 15 May 2014 - 05:14 AM, said:

Just want to chime in here:
It's ok to be frustrated about something that needs work such as UI 2.0, it's ok to vent about it (to a point, don't go overboard)
It is NOT ok to suggest harassing any of our staff members through direct contact. There is no situation whatsoever where this would be acceptable behaviour. OP edited to remove that specific part, feel free to continue to vent and discuss but keep it civil.

Thanks!

This seems like a joke to me. I did not find their twitter contacts by peeking their emails or something. I found it on PGI's website, and then on the forum in a pinned post. As far as I know, THEY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT CUSTOMER COMPLAINTS. I am not asking people to harass the managers. They simply need to get a sense of the scope of problems they are facing. As responsible managers they would want direct contacts with players, at certain occasions. I think this one of them, as you can see my sentiment is shared by many. Removing their twitter accounts is a bad move. You should put it back as in my original post. Btw, I absolutely hate playing this issue up. But it does seem like the only way to get any attention from the dev team. What is going on inside PGI?

Edited by ZenTeapot, 15 May 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[Davers]

K4t4k1s, on 15 May 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

P.S. It's really about communication.

Just tell people if you have not enough people or any sort of problems, but still let people know you are working on it. I'm sure most of your supporters will understand.

Regards

[ZenTeapot]

K4t4k1s, on 15 May 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

P.S. It's really about communication.

Just tell people if you have not enough people or any sort of problems, but still let people know you are working on it. I'm sure most of your supporters will understand.

Regards

wholeheartedly agree.

Edited by ZenTeapot, 15 May 2014 - 07:45 AM.

[Egomane]

ZenTeapot, on 15 May 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

This seems like a joke to me. I did not find their twitter contacts by peeking their emails or something. I found it on PGI's website, and then on the forum in a pinned post. As far as I know, THEY WANT TO KNOW ABOUT CUSTOMER COMPLAINTS. I am not asking people to harass the managers. They simply need to get a sense of the scope of problems they are facing. As responsible managers they would want direct contacts with players, at certain occasions. I think this one of them, as you can see my sentiment is shared by many. Removing their twitter accounts is a bad move. You should put it back as in my original post. Btw, I absolutely hate playing this issue up. But it does seem like the only way to get any attention from the dev team. What is going on inside PGI?

There is a difference between you (singular) contacting them with your problem and calls for bombing their inboxes with said complaint. The first is fine, the second is harrasment and in essence what you attempted here. Be glad we let you off so easily!

They do know about the problems. Just because they don't prioritize them the same way you do, does not mean that they do nothing.

[Alex Warden]

Khobai, on 14 May 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

selling gold pitchforks for $500 each

for that price you could at least add some torches...

[Name140704]

Egomane, on 15 May 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

Be glad we let you off so easily!

You're a volunteer moderator.

[Khobai]

Quote

for that price you could at least add some torches...

$240 torch package comes with it.

[RangerGee412]

I have no problems with using the ui. I have never used smurfys (looks cool tho). I change my mechs all the time and it takes a couple of minutes. Could it be better? Of course it could, things can always been improved. I'd rather have them focused on more content then reducing the amount of clicks to build a mech.

[Tesunie]

I'm going to reply to this post before I read the rest.. (so many responses!)
Responding to it first as it was a direct quote from my post.

ZenTeapot, on 14 May 2014 - 09:37 PM, said:

As I've said previously, we have different standards for game breaking/workable. Can I configure a mech in UI 2.0? Yes. Is it convenient? No. Is it inconvenient to the point that when I do this after each game I simply give up? Yes. This is what I call unworkable/game breaking. It realistically stopped me from playing.

Yes, we apparently do have different definitions of working and not working. I've had no problems working and creating mechs within UI2.0. I have a lot of my current designs (and some future ones) already created in Smurfy. However, even without using Smurfy (which is easier I will admit), I can still completely customize a new mech without needing to go anywhere else. I created my Centurion D custom (and revised it several times) completely in the UI2.0 mechlab. Seen as I changed every weapon on the mech, I can say it wasn't all that hard to do. Though I didn't need to use it often, if I lost what I could do still, I just clicked on the "mech details" button. (Don't mistake this for saying that Mechlab is fine and doesn't need to be changed. That isn't what I am saying. However, it is not that hard to use and is very functional at the moment. Annoying, but functional.)

I also have to ask, why are you having to change your mech in mechlab after every match? I set a mech up and play it for several matches unless I find a glaring problem within the custom. Most of my mechs I haven't had to touch in months, or some even close to a year! I don't know why you would have to revisit mechlab after every match (or even every other match) to do more than minor alterations once you have the bulk of your configuration set up.

So, I still find that your reason for it being "game breaking" and "unworkable" to be very thin and sparse. I find no substance to these claims. We, in this particular complaint/example are running the game in exactly the same manner. We have the same exact experiences. The program is running the same exact way for each of us. There is no reason why it should be unworkable for you, while only mildly annoying (I can see annoyance factor changing person to person) for me. (I think saying it is highly annoying to you would be more appropriate.)

Now, if you said you had such small font in your UI that it was hard to nearly impossible to read, THAT I could understand as a legitimate "It is broken and isn't working for me". That also would explain the differences in our experiences, as I do not have that kind of problem within my experience. My UI has font large enough for me to clearly read. This is not your reason, nor is any other reason given besides "I have to click a lot".


"I have to click a lot." As I stated already, for a single piece of artwork I work on in photoshop, I have to do a lot more clicks in even less time. When I'm playing the game, I preform more clicks in a single short span of battle. I also still tend to be in a match longer than I am customizing a single mech. Maybe I'm just more adaptable than you are. Maybe I'm more willing to work within the system. Or, maybe we are working within two different game types or somehow are playing the same game in two completely different ways. (I still don't customize my mechs all that often after the initial mech creation, leaving me with more time in matches and less in mechlab.) Whatever we are doing differently, the UI is very much workable and functioning (but could still use work and be adjusted to be better and more smooth lined).



(AKA: I'm calling the "It's unworkable/gamebreaking" as hyperbole.)

[Tesunie]

Due to the number of replies, I'm going to post this in sections. Sorry if I bother people. (99 replies when I got home from work today, most of them in this thread!)

Dymlos2003, on 14 May 2014 - 09:35 PM, said:

Haha, the UI in MW2 is just as"bad" as UI 2.0. It was a click fest.

MW4 had it's "click fest" moments, like upgrading or downgrading your engine sizes by any drastic amounts... (I believe same with MW2 and MW3?)

Dymlos2003, on 14 May 2014 - 09:39 PM, said:

That's on you then and a very stupid opinion. The mech lab is far from a pain. It's literally the same on we've had for the entirety of MWO.

It isn't the same as before. It is fairly close, but it got more "organized". In the process of organizing it, they added in more menu clicks.

One of the larger complaints I have heard about the Mechlab is that you can only see one section at a time (same as before, actually even easier to do than with the old mechlab). Then comes the part where the new UI brings more complaints as once inside that section, they did a "half-smurfy" setup, where you have Energy/Balistic/Missile/Engine/Ammo/Equipment subtabs. Each subtab has more options within each for your gear. This means, to place just SSRMs with BAP and Ammo into a single section, first you have to click onto that section. Then, once there, you have to click "missile" and then click (and drag) your SSRMs onto your mech (or click Equip). From there, then you have to click onto the "Ammo" tab. Select SSRM ammo from the tab, and drag/click that into your mech. Then, you have to click "Equipment" tab and then click/drag BAP onto your mech as well.
All that clicking, and it's only on one section. We didn't even mention if you wanted to place those items in a different section(s).

So, I do understand people's complaints on the subject. However, for the most part, we are only talking an extra 3 clicks in my single section example over the old interface (more clicks for multiple sections). I still don't see the couple of extra clicks as being "game breaking"...

ZenTeapot, on 14 May 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

Too bad this is the only Battetech PC game right now.

I believe MW:LL (Mechwarrior: Living Legends) is still up and running. Maybe you might enjoy that game instead, though it will not be able to see any farther updates or changes from my understanding...

[Hellcat420]

the ui2.0 is a giant steaming pile of crap, but i think its as good as its ever going to get unfortunatly.

[Utilyan]

UI 2.0 is SOOOOOO useful.....and so easy........FOR PUTTING UP SALES!

[ZenTeapot]

Tesunie, on 15 May 2014 - 05:15 PM, said:

I'm going to reply to this post before I read the rest.. (so many responses!)
Responding to it first as it was a direct quote from my post.



Yes, we apparently do have different definitions of working and not working. I've had no problems working and creating mechs within UI2.0. I have a lot of my current designs (and some future ones) already created in Smurfy. However, even without using Smurfy (which is easier I will admit), I can still completely customize a new mech without needing to go anywhere else. I created my Centurion D custom (and revised it several times) completely in the UI2.0 mechlab. Seen as I changed every weapon on the mech, I can say it wasn't all that hard to do. Though I didn't need to use it often, if I lost what I could do still, I just clicked on the "mech details" button. (Don't mistake this for saying that Mechlab is fine and doesn't need to be changed. That isn't what I am saying. However, it is not that hard to use and is very functional at the moment. Annoying, but functional.)

I also have to ask, why are you having to change your mech in mechlab after every match? I set a mech up and play it for several matches unless I find a glaring problem within the custom. Most of my mechs I haven't had to touch in months, or some even close to a year! I don't know why you would have to revisit mechlab after every match (or even every other match) to do more than minor alterations once you have the bulk of your configuration set up.

So, I still find that your reason for it being "game breaking" and "unworkable" to be very thin and sparse. I find no substance to these claims. We, in this particular complaint/example are running the game in exactly the same manner. We have the same exact experiences. The program is running the same exact way for each of us. There is no reason why it should be unworkable for you, while only mildly annoying (I can see annoyance factor changing person to person) for me. (I think saying it is highly annoying to you would be more appropriate.)

Now, if you said you had such small font in your UI that it was hard to nearly impossible to read, THAT I could understand as a legitimate "It is broken and isn't working for me". That also would explain the differences in our experiences, as I do not have that kind of problem within my experience. My UI has font large enough for me to clearly read. This is not your reason, nor is any other reason given besides "I have to click a lot".


"I have to click a lot." As I stated already, for a single piece of artwork I work on in photoshop, I have to do a lot more clicks in even less time. When I'm playing the game, I preform more clicks in a single short span of battle. I also still tend to be in a match longer than I am customizing a single mech. Maybe I'm just more adaptable than you are. Maybe I'm more willing to work within the system. Or, maybe we are working within two different game types or somehow are playing the same game in two completely different ways. (I still don't customize my mechs all that often after the initial mech creation, leaving me with more time in matches and less in mechlab.) Whatever we are doing differently, the UI is very much workable and functioning (but could still use work and be adjusted to be better and more smooth lined).



(AKA: I'm calling the "It's unworkable/gamebreaking" as hyperbole.)

the UI made me give up playing this game = unworkable/unplayable for me. It's thing only thing that's stopping me. I've said this multiple times. Cannot fathom how you could not get it. You are extra tolerant? you do not mind the repeated wrist strain, fine, but I do.

Edited by ZenTeapot, 15 May 2014 - 05:41 PM.

[ZenTeapot]

Egomane, on 15 May 2014 - 08:15 AM, said:

There is a difference between you (singular) contacting them with your problem and calls for bombing their inboxes with said complaint. The first is fine, the second is harrasment and in essence what you attempted here. Be glad we let you off so easily!

They do know about the problems. Just because they don't prioritize them the same way you do, does not mean that they do nothing.

Mind your identity my friend. If you are a volunteer moderator, you are being borderline insulting here and probably not what PGI had in use for you originally. If they do not know about the problem, this post is telling them how bad the problem is. If you know the problems and are not prioritizing it, this post is urging them to prioritize it. Either way they should respond officially in some manner if they still value the community, instead of having some random moderator reacting my post. "let me off so easily"? Laughing my ass off. You are the joke, man!

Edited by ZenTeapot, 15 May 2014 - 05:39 PM.

[Hellcat420]

ZenTeapot, on 15 May 2014 - 05:39 PM, said:

Mind your identity my friend. If you are a volunteer moderator, you are being borderline insulting here and probably not what PGI had in use for you originally. If they do not know about the problem, this post is telling them how bad the problem is. If you know the problems and are not prioritizing it, this post is urging them to prioritize it. Either way they should respond officially in some manner if they still value the community, instead of having some random moderator reacting my post. "let me off so easily"? Laughing my ass off. You are the joke, man!

ui 2.0 is not a cashgrab, therefore its not a priority.

[Tesunie]

Cascal, on 14 May 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Rarely has a thread on the MWO forums made me more mad than this one. The amount of condescending bullshit in this thread is incredible and has convinced me that the people "whining" about MWO is far from alone in contributing to the "toxic" atmosphere everyone is bitching about. All of you talking down on OP like he is some kind of ****** are the ones being toxic here. SOME people in this thread seem incapable of admitting that UI 2.0 has problematic aspects, and resort to being little ******* instead.

Toxin can come from both sides. However, most of us aren't disagreeing that UI2.0 could use work, we are disagreeing with the improper use of the term "unusable/broken/game breaking", as that is clearly not the case.

I can say for myself, I am not intending to talk down to the OP. He has valid points. But I do feel he has grossly blown the issue out of proportion to what the size of the problem really is. Making a mountain out of an ant hill.

GalaxyBluestar, on 14 May 2014 - 11:33 PM, said:

how is a mech lab with unselectable collum and box view but owned and purchasable filter telling you what mechs have... whilst the store mechs made to appeal to buyers DOESN'T offer the info you need to make an informed purchase like UI 1.5?

how do people understand the save configeration when there's no button for it but if you guess hard enough the checkout button {known for making money transtactions} is used for changing stuff around even when you're not spending anything, turns out to be the Save config button. is that apart of any sane good UX interface???

I actually had a hard time on some mechs to select different sections of them with the older interface. Some mechs, once I selected a section, I could not select the next section I wanted without either selecting another section, or I had to try and click a tiny mech layout icon in a far off corner. (Ex: If I was selecting my Dragon's arm on one side, (the AC arm) and I wanted to then select the laser side torso (other side of the mech), I could not do it without either cycling through to the CT to get there, or click the little diagram. Other mechs, if I was selected on the head (which could accidentally be done), I could not select anything else as it zoomed in really far into the head.)

Also, the old interface has some back coding issues, that was forcing PGI to have to code everything twice, which made updates more difficult and was leading to even more bugs and harder fixes. The new UI had a lot of developer functionality added into it which we don't see.

I agree with the "checkout" button. However, when I realized that it had a C-bill total and there was no "save custom" button, I clicked on it. I figured I could always back out if I had to... (But I agree. It should say "save mech" or something instead of "checkout". But, seen as you also have MC items you can buy, Checkout isn't that far off... Don't know on this one.)

ZenTeapot, on 15 May 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

I've never seen UI this bad.

Homeworlds (awesome game) had a very hard UI to work with. It was simple, but just moving your ships could be challenging sometimes...

I had some PS1 game (Saga-something-or-other, I can't recall the game but I still own it) had a poor UI and overall game design.

Apparently EVE looks like it's complicated...

This is not the worst UI I have had to use. If you think this is bad, try NWN (Neverwinter Nights) where you have to sift through a ton of menus sometimes... while things are happening in the game still... and seconds can count... Oops. Too late. You took too long finding the right menu button. (Though they did have quick slots thankfully.) NWN was still very playable, and still a lot of fun to play.

ZenTeapot, on 15 May 2014 - 12:45 AM, said:

For me, the wrist strain using is it too bad, and the amount of information I have to keep in my head to get anything done too much.

Wrist strain? If the UI is giving your wrist strain... how do you manage to play the game where you have to move your mouse and click a lot more often? This new reason seriously has be baffled at the moment... can you please explain more so maybe I could understand how this is a reason that just the UI is unplayable, but doesn't effect the actual matches? Also, how often are you visiting the mechlab to change things?

Rogue Jedi, on 15 May 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

UI 2.0 has the Windows 8 factor, when MS released Windows 8 I downloaded tthe trial and tried it on a virtural machine.

After the install I managed to log-in no problem then after messing arround with it for a few minutes I decided to turn it off, it took me about 15 minutes to find shutdown using the Graphical User Interface, yes I could have used shortcut keys but the fact that an IT professional needed 15 minutes to work out how to shut it down convinced me that 8 has major problems (especialy after giving the same test to some collegues with simular results). then I joined it to the domain at the school where I work. the start screen had 11 pages of icons, ues I know you can find what ever you want by searching using the keyboard but there was no way to arrange them in a hyrachical fashon, this is impractical for a school.
Despite these problems and many others I forced my self to spend the next few weeks learning to use it. I can now use Windows 8 compatantly and fix proelems people have using it but I much prefer XP or 7.

8 is designed for a touchscreen, but does not seem to be intended for use with a keypord and mouse. this is a simular situation to the MWOs UI 2.x, the UI seems designed for gamepad or touchscreen rather than keyboard and mouse

I can now use UI2.0 no problem but the layout is not logical or intuitave and it still takes twice as long to do most things as 1.5 did.

the thing I miss the most is the ready list, where you could place 4 mechs, I used to use that for the mechs I was currently working on, so when I die within the first few minutes of a match (yes it still happens) I could DC and instantly select another mech that needed XP and just launch, within a few seconds of returning to the mechlab.

but despite all I have said, I do not think UI enhancements should be the top priority for PGI, I would prefer to see community warfare, VOIP, destructable terain (at the very least trees which fall over when you shoot or walk through them) and of course since IGP gave PGI the clan deadline that also needs doing, when all this is in place then PGI should concentrate on fixing improving the GUI assuming IGP gives them the time rather than declairing another cash grab preorder sale.

I think this post hit the nail on the head. I agree with this. (We also don't know how much is PGI and how much is IGP when it comes to decisions and what gets done when.)

Alex Warden, on 15 May 2014 - 08:43 AM, said:

for that price you could at least add some torches...

Are you sure you would want torches with gold pitchforks? It might melt your Pitchfork...

ZenTeapot, on 15 May 2014 - 05:33 PM, said:

the UI made me give up playing this game = unworkable/unplayable for me. It's thing only thing that's stopping me. I've said this multiple times. Cannot fathom how you could not get it. You are extra tolerant? you do not mind the repeated wrist strain, fine, but I do.

I still am not grasping your problems. (To use your own words) Are you extra intolerant?

I still have to ask the same thing I asked in a post above... wrist strain? From the UI? Really? But not from the game... am I understanding this correctly? Please enlighten me on this. I'm not getting how the UI is causing extra wrist strain than the game itself. Not to mention, how often are you using the Mechlab? I barely touch the mechlab unless I have a new mech to try, or a new idea to play out on a mech, or the occasional adjustment to a current mech. I'm probably inside mechlab once every 20-50+ game matches, depending upon if it's a new mech or not. (I'm normally working on something new to gain XP in and level up. Lately I've been playing my older mechs again to get the dust off them.)

[KAT Ayanami]

Aresye, on 14 May 2014 - 07:19 PM, said:

I bet your one of those people that didn't buy gas for a single day to show them gas companies who's boss.

How'd that work out for ya?

Well, I guess its working the same as the people that payed for packages. Like crap. But just with a bunch more money on his pockets.

How is it working for you to pay for dreams?