250 replies to this topic

[Harathan]

Fut, on 23 May 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

Ugh.. Stop ruining MWO... please.

R&R needs to come back.

Can't agree with that, Fut. Taking fire for other members of your team *should* be part of normal teamwork.

[Joseph Mallan]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:32 AM, said:

LOL! Come on, Joseph. You've proven yourself too smart to believe that. You can't have possibly meant that this is the goal of marathon-ing, so I'll assume you meant MWO.

The goal of the game is to be better at a digital simulation that the people on the opposing team. Often that means that your mech doesn't last to the end of the match. My clan uses strategy that includes meat shielding, and sacrificing all the time in order to win the match.

Plus, you don't take anything from the opposing team other than time, and ego.

Let's keep our perspective here.

I was a Marine Infantryman. Any way I can stick it to the opposition is fair game to me. So if my team mate wants to take away that 12th kill. I support his choice.

The Goal of this game is Kill the enemy,(these two are interchangeable) take his stuff, live to talk about.

[Calamus]

Jade Kitsune, on 23 May 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

You...didn't read my entire post... I make it clear that, if you fought up to the end, then ran off, that's fair... you're playing strategically. If you ran off at the begining of the match to power down in an obscure corner of the map, then you're just being a [redacted].

You're banging your head against a brick wall. He's not interested in dialogue. He's only interested in brow beating, and being right regardless of reality.

[Fut]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Right. I have one word for you, if you believe that. Naive.

I've got one for you as well. Pompous.

[Harathan]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Let's compare apples with apples, hey?

What you mean is "I cannot grasp the idea that others may play MWO for different reasons, and get different levels on enjoyment from different activities, than myself".

[Joseph Mallan]

Harathan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Can't agree with that, Fut. Taking fire for other members of your team *should* be part of normal teamwork.

Although I think he may have been being sarcastic!

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Let's compare apples with apples, hey?

The Honeycrisp apple is superior to Golden Delicious!

[Calamus]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

I was a Marine Infantryman. Any way I can stick it to the opposition is fair game to me. So if my team mate wants to take away that 12th kill. I support his choice.

The Goal of this game is Kill the enemy,(these two are interchangeable) take his stuff, live to talk about.

You just admitted a bias that is preventing you from maintaining perspective. I guess, given what you've offered about your perspective, I can see where you're coming from, but you just all but admitted that you're not able (or willing) to adjust your perspective to the subject at hand. Unfortunately, without perspective you cannot make a credible argument.

the problem is that this is not the military, gamers are not infantry, and you're not going to war when you log into MWO. The strategies, and acceptable behaviors in war do not, and should not apply to gaming. If for no other reason than no one is trying to kill you!. It is a GAME.

[Zervziel]

To put this is possibly the nerdiest way possible: Lok'tar Ogar!

Victory or Death, basically. My lovely highlanders and atlai can usually be found broken and shattered in the wake of an enemy deathball that merrily rolled over me while I was sedately trundling to the engagement zone. One can usually find that missing lance of assaults by figuring out where I died.

In my lighter mechs, I follow the same idea, only with more caution. Except my locust. I just sort of run about aimlessly, blasting everything not friendly before running screaming if someone so much as farts a single SRM at me.

Never the less, I do fight to the death. One match had me in a legged locust facing a fairly unscathed Banshee. I sold my life bravely...meaning I think he killed me by accident since my mech was practically doing the really annoying thing that cats do when they constantly brush up against your leg while you're walking. I ate an alpha meant for someone else.

[Calamus]

Fut, on 23 May 2014 - 09:36 AM, said:

I've got one for you as well. Pompous.

Maybe. I don't think I am. But even if I am, it doesn't mean that my argument is wrong. What I am, really, has no bearing on it.

to be clear, I wasn't calling you naive, per se. I am calling that view naive.

[Fut]

Harathan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Can't agree with that, Fut. Taking fire for other members of your team *should* be part of normal teamwork.

No, that's a good point.

Taking damage for your team is part of being on a team, there's a time and a place for it. What shouldn't be though, is using suicidal tactics on a regular basis. The only reason that it's a "good" idea, is because R&R has been removed, there are no consequences whatsoever to dying...

It's rubbish - and it actually takes away from the grand gesture of one person purposefully sacrificing themselves to help their team (defending base against overwhelming opposition, just trying to last long enough for your team to arrive and back you up, for example.)

[Joseph Mallan]

[Calamus]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Although I think he may have been being sarcastic!

I wasn't being sarcastic at all.

Quote

The Honeycrisp apple is superior to Golden Delicious!

Agree to disagree.

[CeeKay Boques]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

You just admitted a bias that is preventing you from maintaining perspective. I guess, given what you've offered about your perspective, I can see where you're coming from, but you just all but admitted that you're not able (or willing) to adjust your perspective to the subject at hand. Unfortunately, without perspective you cannot make a credible argument.

the problem is that this is not the military, gamers are not infantry, and you're not going to war when you log into MWO. The strategies, and acceptable behaviors in war do not, and should not apply to gaming. If for no other reason than no one is trying to kill you!. It is a GAME.

I was with you up till this point. This is not a game. Nothing that I've invested this much time and energy into is a game. At every turn, for any sim I play, Falcon, Arma, RoF, Mechwarrior, I am continuing to try to blur the line between "Game" and "Simulation". I do everything I can to eliminate the game portion. If this includes putting myself in the mindset of a warrior on space battlefield, WW1 Ace, or desert warrior, I do it.

It only works for 3 to 5 second intervals. But in those intervals, its happening, man. Stop locking yourself into reality, and bend the damn spoon.

[Fut]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

Maybe. I don't think I am. But even if I am, it doesn't mean that my argument is wrong. What I am, really, has no bearing on it.

to be clear, I wasn't calling you naive, per se. I am calling that view naive.

To be clear, I was certainly calling you pompous.

You've reduced yourself to attempting to debate the meanings of the words "Want" and "Need" in order to try and support your stance. Yet you still have an arrogance to you, It's ridiculous.

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Great movie, and truly words to live by!

Technoviking, on 23 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I was with you up till this point. This is not a game. Nothing that I've invested this much time and energy into is a game. At every turn, for any sim I play, Falcon, Arma, RoF, Mechwarrior, I am continuing to try to blur the line between "Game" and "Simulation". I do everything I can to eliminate the game portion. If this includes putting myself in the mindset of a warrior on space battlefield, WW1 Ace, or desert warrior, I do it.

It only works for 3 to 5 second intervals. But in those intervals, its happening, man. Stop locking yourself into reality, and bend the damn spoon.

This!

Edited by Fut, 23 May 2014 - 09:48 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

I wasn't being sarcastic at all.



Agree to disagree.

But Fut may have been...please read the post I quoted again.

Or we could argue like we have been about the OP subject

[Calamus]

Technoviking, on 23 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

I was with you up till this point. This is not a game. Nothing that I've invested this much time and energy into is a game. At every turn, for any sim I play, Falcon, Arma, RoF, Mechwarrior, I am continuing to try to blur the line between "Game" and "Simulation". I do everything I can to eliminate the game portion. If this includes putting myself in the mindset of a warrior on space battlefield, WW1 Ace, or desert warrior, I do it.

It only works for 3 to 5 second intervals. But in those intervals, its happening, man. Stop locking yourself into reality, and bend the damn spoon.

LOL! I'm just going to assume that you're joking about this.

Seriously, you were, right? Oh, please tell me you were joking...

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

But Fut may have been...please read the post I quoted again.

Or we could argue like we have been about the OP subject

Sorry, this thread is so active I missed who was being quoted there.

[Fut]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:47 AM, said:

But Fut may have been...please read the post I quoted again.

Or we could argue like we have been about the OP subject

Wasn't being sarcastic, just didn't spell out what I meant fully.
Responded to it though, probably just got missed in this intense, fast moving thread.

See below.

Spoiler

Harathan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

Can't agree with that, Fut. Taking fire for other members of your team *should* be part of normal teamwork.

No, that's a good point.
Taking damage for your team is part of being on a team, there's a time and a place for it. What shouldn't be though, is using suicidal tactics on a regular basis. The only reason that it's a "good" idea, is because R&R has been removed, there are no consequences whatsoever to dying...
It's rubbish - and it actually takes away from the grand gesture of one person purposefully sacrificing themselves to help their team (defending base against overwhelming opposition, just trying to last long enough for your team to arrive and back you up, for example.)

Edited by Fut, 23 May 2014 - 09:51 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Calamus, on 23 May 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

You just admitted a bias that is preventing you from maintaining perspective. I guess, given what you've offered about your perspective, I can see where you're coming from, but you just all but admitted that you're not able (or willing) to adjust your perspective to the subject at hand. Unfortunately, without perspective you cannot make a credible argument.

the problem is that this is not the military, gamers are not infantry, and you're not going to war when you log into MWO. The strategies, and acceptable behaviors in war do not, and should not apply to gaming. If for no other reason than no one is trying to kill you!. It is a GAME.

Why on earth should I adjust the perspective I believe is the right one to have?

Every redshirt in the game is trying to kill my avatar hence Me. please get your perspective correct sir.

Game objectives
Capture base
Kill enemy! Now we can dispute the thesaurus if you want, but it comes down to take stuff kill stuff.

[Goose]

Joseph Mallan, on 23 May 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

Although I think he may have been being sarcastic!

The Honeycrisp apple is superior to Golden Delicious!

No U: Staymen is da bomb …

[Calamus]

Fut, on 23 May 2014 - 09:46 AM, said:

To be clear, I was certainly calling you pompous.

And again. When someone resorts to name calling it's the same as waiving a white flag.

Quote

You've reduced yourself to attempting to debate the meanings of the words "Want" and "Need" in order to try and support your stance. Yet you still have an arrogance to you, It's ridiculous.

Well, that's just not true. You were the first to try and distinguish between want and need (need and desire). You're the one who cut and paste internet dictionary definitions of them. You repeatedly tried to bait me into debating it with you. I spent at least the next 2-3 replies to you attempting to NOT debate it with you. I believe the first thing I said was that I agree to disagree on that point. Stop things up.

Christ, just because you don't like me, or can't diffuse my opinion doesn't mean that you have to make things up, and start calling me names.