208 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Desintegrator, on 23 May 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

Nice Mech and simple to play - just two weapon groups and fire left and right lasers in a single group.

But a little slow in my opinon. I would prefer to run around ~ 100 kph in a 50 ton Mech.

But we will see it soon on the battlefield how this little Monster performs...

With speed tweak you'll hit 106Kph.

EDIT: nvm, wrong mech in my mind. Yeah this one will run at ~ 90 Kph with Speed Tweak

Edited by IraqiWalker, 23 May 2014 - 09:07 PM.

[Demos]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Now, according to Sarna an ER ML does 5 heat. That means at maximum in tabletop to real time conversion, you could fire 6 ER ML at once and instantaneously power down (6 * 5 = 30. Tabletop's total threshold is 30, where ammunition instantly explodes and the mech is powered down, though power downs could happen well before 100% threshold). The Nova's pilot would lose consciousness due to heat exhaustion in the process.

Given that Lore's lasers are instant damage weapons (kinda like MWO's ACs while lore's ACs are rapid fire tank cannons that require immense amounts of shots to do little damage; i.e. a 40mm AC/2 requiring 8 shots at 0.25 damage each to achieve 2 damage in 4 seconds with a 6 second reload time), we can basically say that the Nova never fired more than two ER ML at once.

After all firing 2 ER ML would bring the Nova to 33.33% heat. Yes DHS cooled fast but with 30 as a max, firing all 12 ER ML would bring the mech to 200% threshold.

Koniving, please, either learn the TT-rules or stop creating wonky examples.

In TT, you are firing weapons, building up heat. Then the working heat sinks reduce the heat. At the end of the turn the heat (named "threshold" in your post) is calculated in that way. Your example(s) excludes the heat reduction by the heat sinks.

The Nova/Blackhawk Prime in TT has 18 DHS, so in 10secs ( one turn n TT), you would build up 24 heat, firing all 12 ERML at once (12 * 5 = 60, 60 - 18 *2 = 24). Now your performace is significantly impaired, but you are not shutting down.

If you want to compare with TT, you have to know the TT at first.
Thanks!

EDITED: corrected typo

Edited by Demos, 23 May 2014 - 11:05 PM.

[Kassatsu]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

So this thing is gonna be a LOT cooler running than it ever was in tabletop. o.O; And a lot deadlier.

Cooler? Maybe. Deadlier? Uh, did you forget that the hp values have been doubled, and that they basically swapped the damage system of lasers (instant damage in a single quick shot) with ACs (damage-over-time from many shots, or in this case, a solid beam)? Won't clan lasers have a longer beam time as well? This thing is going to get wrecked by pop tarts and do even less damage than a hunchback could in return due to the longer beam times.

Edited by Kassatsu, 23 May 2014 - 09:27 PM.

[S3dition]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

Just to mention it, in no Battletech or Mechwarrior game are you supposed to be able to fire all your weapons at the same time safely. This includes the heat neutral Awesome. It fires its 3 PPCs one at a time, across 10 seconds. Not at once.
The Nova might at best fire 6 lasers at once, wait some time, and fire 6 more. It was never, ever, intended to fire them all at once.

For a comparison, lets say you have two double barrel shotguns. It takes you 16 seconds to reload both of them (because you have to fiddle with them, there's one in each hand, getting out shells, etc). Alternatively if you had to reload only one barrel at a time it'd only take 3 seconds, to do whenever it was safe and you could still shoot from the one shotgun even while reloading the other shotgun.

Would you then fire all your shots at once in excessive overkill against one threat, or would you fire off one barrel at a time, reloading a shell at a time whenever possible, until you're out?

If you did fire them all at once, what have you accomplished? Can you reload before the next enemy strikes?

Now, according to Sarna an ER ML does 5 heat. That means at maximum in tabletop to real time conversion, you could fire 6 ER ML at once and instantaneously power down (6 * 5 = 30. Tabletop's total threshold is 30, where ammunition instantly explodes and the mech is powered down, though power downs could happen well before 100% threshold). The Nova's pilot would lose consciousness due to heat exhaustion in the process.

Given that Lore's lasers are instant damage weapons (kinda like MWO's ACs while lore's ACs are rapid fire tank cannons that require immense amounts of shots to do little damage; i.e. a 40mm AC/2 requiring 8 shots at 0.25 damage each to achieve 2 damage in 4 seconds with a 6 second reload time), we can basically say that the Nova never fired more than two ER ML at once.

After all firing 2 ER ML would bring the Nova to 33.33% heat. Yes DHS cooled fast but with 30 as a max, firing all 12 ER ML would bring the mech to 200% threshold.

Ironically, in MWO before ghost heat, firing 9 ML at 4 heat each (36) could be done 3 times before shutting down with 4 seconds in between each firing (which is 108 heat, with 10 DHS in a 250 engine where the DHS is true 2 times cooling + double the threshold of TT, that's only 20 heat cooled in 10 seconds; with all 27 beams fired in 12 seconds. 108 - 20 = 88 heat uncooled which is 146.67% threshold).

So this thing is gonna be a LOT cooler running than it ever was in tabletop. o.O; And a lot deadlier.

Heat simulator for MWO's 9 ML build without ghost heat. Even with ghost heat what you can do here compared to TT is superior in every feasible way.

Interestingly enough, when I increased the double heatsinks to 24 (the number it has stock) the heat only rose to 43. Granted, this will be higher with ER mediums, but probably not more than the ~60% mark. So, according to that simulator, you can alpha strike with 9x ER Medium lasers twice in a short time span, flush coolant, then do it again. Not sure if there are any mechs that won't kill.

I used medium pulse lasers (close as we can get to the 5 heat of ER Mediums) and you can still do 3x volley of 6x er medium lasers.

Now, if PGI decides to remove ghost heat for specific builds that use their stock configuration, it's an entirely different animal. You could viably alpha strike twice in a ~3 second period, then do it again with coolant. that's at least 180 damage in a very short span of time.

Keep in mind, this is bare bones stock. It's not a stretch to just put 4x ER large laser on it for 48 heat (down from the 60 of the ER Medium's). The only difficulty would be finding the extra 4 tons. But you could potentially put only 3 ERLL on (using variants with torso hardpoints) and have very heat efficient mech. Not quite the stopping power of 12x ERML, but at least you can alpha with respectable frequency.

IraqiWalker, on 23 May 2014 - 08:53 PM, said:

They made no mistakes. They gave the Nova torso twist since that would be easier to do. Also, many people would start complaining about how the Nova can't keep up with it's turn speed when circled by other enemy mechs, and that if it has no torso twist it should ignore Ghost heat, or other stuff like that.


The speed will most likely be fixed. Don't think they will allow us to change engines any time soon. However, I do hope they modify speed tweak for clan mechs to make up for it. On the other hand, clan mechs are a bit slower, but they always hit above their weight and size. Even clan lights like the Adder pack more firepower than some heavies out there.



I think you missed her point. She didn't say that, by "fictional language" she meant languages created by the authors of specific settings, and yes, they can be refered to that way, since unlike english and other languages, they haven't been in use for centuries, and evolved to cope with the times. In fact, they are stuck in a deadend path as far as linguistic evolution is concerned.

Basically, Yes, all language is manufactured, however your argument is missing the point that she was making. As for the credibility of using a language like Klingon, or N'avi, or Black speech, or Eldarian. These are all nice, and can be interesting, but they are not real languages in the same sense that English, and French, and Arabic, and Aramaic, and Hebrew .... etc. are.


The Clan language is just abbreviated English words, like "Neg" for Negative. "Aff" for Affirmative. It's based around extreme efficiency. The words are intended to be as short as possible, to take as little time on comms to convey. For example "Batchall" is short for Battle Challenge, or a duel, basically.

This IP has had decades of lore and background put into it, and long time fans can get immersed in it in many ways, having the language thrown in there adds a layer to the immersion. It's another way to have more fun with this game, and this setting.

I know exactly what she was saying. I was irritated at her response to pointing out the irony of her statement. I've been in too many debates where one side presenting a large amount of well thought out and researched facts for the argument, and the other side couldn't come up with an intelligent rebuttal. Instead, they try to demean and disenfranchise the argument itself, which is the poorest form of debate you can subscribe to.

Demos, on 23 May 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Koniving, please, either learn the TT-rules or stop creating wonky examples.

In TT, you are firing weapons, building up heat. Then the working heat sinks reduce the heat. At the end of the turn the heat (named "threshold" in your post) is calculated in that way. Your example(s) excludes the heat reduction by the heat sinks.

The Nova/Blackhawk Prime in TT has 18 DHS, so in 10secs ( one turn n TT), you would build up 34 heat, firing all 12 ERML at once (12 * 5 = 60, 60 - 18 *2 = 24). Now your performace is significantly impaired, but you are not shutting down.

If you want to compare with TT, you have to know the TT at first.
Thanks!

What version of the TT are you playing? 34 is 4 points past shut down and a WHOLE bunch of tests to see if your pilot doesn't burst into flames or your ammo doesn't blow up your mech.



Even the card game recognized this:



Just look at the flavor text. And the fact that you'll lose almost half your structure for using overheat. But man oh man that damage.

Edited by S3dition, 23 May 2014 - 09:44 PM.

[WonderSparks]

Well the Nova looks pretty sweet! Though I'm noticing the arms look pretty octagonal instead of hexagonal... were we considering the possibility of arms with more hardpoints or just being different?
Either way, this is a change for the better from MW4's Nova IMO.

[Koniving]

Demos, on 23 May 2014 - 09:23 PM, said:

Koniving, please, either learn the TT-rules or stop creating wonky examples.

In TT, you are firing weapons, building up heat. Then the working heat sinks reduce the heat. At the end of the turn the heat (named "threshold" in your post) is calculated in that way. Your example(s) excludes the heat reduction by the heat sinks.

The Nova/Blackhawk Prime in TT has 18 DHS, so in 10secs ( one turn n TT), you would build up 34 heat, firing all 12 ERML at once (12 * 5 = 60, 60 - 18 *2 = 24). Now your performace is significantly impaired, but you are not shutting down.

If you want to compare with TT, you have to know the TT at first.
Thanks!

I'm quite aware of it.
I'm also aware that TT is a summary of 10 seconds.
That is NOT 12 lasers fired at once, and if you read my post I also said it can't be done at once.

To fire 12 ER ML at the same time you'd reach 60 heat or 200% threshold. That's at the same second.

Allow me to demonstrate a true to life breakdown of TT with the assumption that each laser does instant damage akin to lore.

Tabletop calculates heat generated - heat cooled = remaining heat at the summary of the turn. But in real time we are not working in segments of 10 seconds, we are working in segments of 1 second.

12 ER ML * 5 heat per ER ML = 60 - 36 = 24 = 80% threshold.

With 18 DHS as you mentioned we have 36 cooling per 10 seconds, which is 3.6 cooling per second.

Now, here's how it went down. Remember 30 threshold is shutdown. No matter When it happens, as this is real time.

0 seconds, 2 ER ML are fired. + 10 heat. (That's already 33.33% heat!) Total: 10.
1 second, cool 3.6. Total: 6.4.
2 seconds, cool 3.6. 2.8 Fire 2 ER ML. + 10 heat. Total: 12.8
3 seconds, cool 3.6. Total: 9.2
4 seconds, cool 3.6. 5.6 heat. Fire 2 ER ML + 10 heat Total: 15.6 (DANGER! 52% heat!!!!) If sustained the mech slows.
5 seconds, cool 3.6. Total: 12.
6 seconds, cool 3.6. 8.4 heat. Fire 2 ER ML + 10 heat. Total: 18.4 (DANGER!! 61.33% heat!!!!) Remaining at this level constitutes a shutdown risk!
7 seconds, cool 3.6. Total: 14.8
8 seconds, cool 3.6. 11.2 heat. Fire 2 ER ML + 10 heat. Total: 21.2. 70.67% threshold!!!!
9 seconds, cool 3.6. Total: 17.6 heat.
10 seconds, cool 3.6. 14 heat. Fire 2 ER ML + 10 heat. Total 24 heat. 80% threshold! Remaining here will constitute and ammunition explosion and horrific inaccuracy due to pilot stress, blurred vision and other factors. Mech could shut down at any moment.

There we go. Your very own example in real time. Which is EXACTLY what I had said. I do know the rules. I also know that you have no sense of real time concepts.

Now, for an awesome trick using these rules? We can find out exactly what will happen if we alpha striked. Ready for this?

The Alpha Strike by definition means firing ALL lasers at the same time. This means a "1 second turn."
Lets begin. Identical conditions. We fire all at once.
Remember threshold is always 30. We subtract our cooling which in this case is 18 DHS at 1 second's worth. To find 1 second's worth of 18 DHS, we take 18 * 2 = 36 / 10 seconds = 3.6 cooling/second.

0 seconds. Fire 12 ER ML at the same time. + 60 heat.
1 second. Cool 3.6. Total: 56.4.
Is the total above 30?
Yes.
Automatic shutdown.

Any questions? Care for some further education?

[Koniving]

WonderSparks, on 23 May 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

Well the Nova looks pretty sweet! Though I'm noticing the arms look pretty octagonal instead of hexagonal... were we considering the possibility of arms with more hardpoints or just being different?
Either way, this is a change for the better from MW4's Nova IMO.

I think it's to have space for the missile launchers and autocannons that some configs have.

[S3dition]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 10:21 PM, said:

I think it's to have space for the missile launchers and autocannons that some configs have.

The nova has some interesting pods:

[Koniving]

Kassatsu, on 23 May 2014 - 09:27 PM, said:

Cooler? Maybe. Deadlier? Uh, did you forget that the hp values have been doubled, and that they basically swapped the damage system of lasers (instant damage in a single quick shot) with ACs (damage-over-time from many shots, or in this case, a solid beam)? Won't clan lasers have a longer beam time as well? This thing is going to get wrecked by pop tarts and do even less damage than a hunchback could in return due to the longer beam times.

This is quite possible.
But again I remind you compared to tabletop, it will be. Instead of only being able to do no more than 4 lasers at a time every 4 seconds, it can do up to 6 lasers at once without shutting down. That's assuming PGI doesn't make the lasers colder, which I'm certain they will. They're known for doing very stupid and unreasonable things in the name of balancing. Now, longer beam times usually wind up in 0.25 or 0.5 second increments.

7 damage per ER ML @ 1.5 seconds. Wow the decimals per tick are insane. Anyway it's gonna be hotter than hell but the longer beam time means the heat climb is more gradual and less 'spikey'. Worse comes to worse switch 'em all out for the cooler medium pulse lasers.

Honestly at 6 ER ML that's 42 damage per strike. Does it matter if you have to hold it for 1.25 seconds?

[Koniving]

S3dition, on 23 May 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

The nova has some interesting pods:

Nova was a very small mech with no twist ability and strong legs, allowing it to carry obscenely large weapons. Its arms were actually connected to the same joints as the legs, though they did operate independently. Though I do believe we're suffering 'perspective' when it comes to those weapons. LRMs have the same diameter as Stinger missiles according to Strum Wealth's manuals.

That one specifically is holding a separate "weapon." That LRM-20 is mounted on a hand-held weapon with its own armor (usually 0.5 to 1 ton of armor) + the launcher.
Thunderbolt has such weapons too, usually in 6 or 12 ton models. Disposable hand-held weapons.
Common in Battletech lore. Never, ever existed in a Mechwarrior game. Sadly.

Edited by Koniving, 23 May 2014 - 10:33 PM.

[S3dition]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 10:31 PM, said:

Nova was a very small mech with no twist ability and strong legs, allowing it to carry obscenely large weapons. Its arms were actually connected to the same joints as the legs, though they did operate independently. Though I do believe we're suffering 'perspective' when it comes to those weapons. LRMs have the same diameter as Stinger missiles according to Strum Wealth's manuals.

That one specifically is holding a separate "weapon." That LRM-20 is mounted on a hand-held weapon with its own armor (usually 0.5 to 1 ton of armor) + the launcher.
Thunderbolt has such weapons too, usually in 6 or 12 ton models. Disposable hand-held weapons.
Common in Battletech lore. Never, ever existed in a Mechwarrior game. Sadly.

It's funny that the cannon has front sights in that picture, as if the pilot might actually aim down them...

Anyway, it's a bit ironic that people are screaming about torso twist, when the nova in MW2...had torso twist. And it was about the same angle as you see in PGI's screen shots:

Look at the 15 second mark

[Smitti]

That... That is a thing of beauty.

[Koniving]

S3dition, on 23 May 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Anyway, it's a bit ironic that people are screaming about torso twist, when the nova in MW2...had torso twist. And it was about the same angle as you see in PGI's screen shots:

Yeah but that twist was less than 20 degrees in either direction (about the same range as most 'arms' get).
Its also too late for any mech not to have torso twist. Save that for a better made Battletech/Mechwarrior game with balancing that can support it.

Spoiler

If all weapons did their stated damage in 10 seconds instead of all at once, variants would be easy to create, and luxuriously pinpoint damages might never reach more than '30' for twin Gauss and '20' for anything else (as when you follow lore, with the single exception of the Cauldron Born and regardless of Sarna saying 'single shot' [take it as single use, plus if 185mm gun needs 4 shots and 150mm gun need 10 shots then why would a 180mm or 120mm be one shot, especially when other 120mm AC/20s are specifically stated to be 12 shot?], then even twin AC/20s wouldn't have more than 10 damage pinpoint as the largest Inner Sphere AC/20 is the Chemjet Gun at 185mm, which requires 4 shots to do 20 damage, meaning 5 damage per shot).

S3dition, on 23 May 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

It's funny that the cannon has front sights in that picture, as if the pilot might actually aim down them...

Now far as the canon, remember that BT was HEAVILY influenced by Gundam and Patlabor. As it got more hashed out it became very specifically influenced by Patlabor and The 08th MS Team (a gundam show that has no gundams; ironically it's the best one I ever watched).

(Edit: Replaced the previous two links with this one. It's a very good scene with plenty of cockpit, outside of cockpit, and manual aiming).


They do use the sights when their main camera / monitors are damaged.

Patlabor's concept can be seen throughout ALL of Battletech's Industrial Mechs.
Harvester has a striking resemblance to certain 'Labors' in Patlabor.

Like in both Patlabor and 08th MS team, the mechs are supported by infantry and vehicles. Patlabor by command cars. 08th by an APC with a Seismic monitor (sound based).


This is also where FASA got its concept for Jumpjets, as BT's lore and 08th MS Team's jumpjets are virtually identical.

There's even rule sets in BT for hand-held weapons that can be holstered using a cargo lift / hoist on the mech itself.

BT's Rifles are heavily influenced from this as well.

Generally the single shot tank-like cannon concept got lost with the Rifles. The only Heavy Rifle I ever found in a book so far was 190mm. Single shot, accurate out to 540 meters when used while moving (lore-wise; any farther and enemies could 'dodge' it easily or the pilot had little chance of hitting. It's hard to counter for wind and other factors inside a machine that can't detect such things). Did 9 damage, but against military grade armor that got cut back to 6.
Now compare the largest AC/20 in the Inner Sphere at 185mm, the Chemjet Gun. 4 round slow-fire burst. The recoil prevents it from being able to zero all 4 shots onto a target at beyond 270 meters (in lore, however, nothing prevents the weapon from hitting well beyond that. However if you can't hit all 4 shots on target, there isn't a point in firing). Each shot does 5 damage. (190mm Heavy Rifle is reduced to 6 damage. 185mm Autocannon fires 4 shots at 5 damage each; coincidence? I think not).

Edited by Koniving, 24 May 2014 - 12:09 AM.

[Demos]

S3dition, on 23 May 2014 - 09:36 PM, said:

What version of the TT are you playing? 34 is 4 points past shut down and a WHOLE bunch of tests to see if your pilot doesn't burst into flames or your ammo doesn't blow up your mech.



Even the card game recognized this:



Just look at the flavor text. And the fact that you'll lose almost half your structure for using overheat. But man oh man that damage.

Had you read the example with the figures, you had seen that the overheat is 24. No instant shutting down...

EDIT: There was a typo in the text (now corrected), not the example.

Edited by Demos, 23 May 2014 - 11:17 PM.

[Demos]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 10:14 PM, said:

I'm quite aware of it.
I'm also aware that TT is a summary of 10 seconds.
That is NOT 12 lasers fired at once, and if you read my post I also said it can't be done at once.
[...]
Any questions? Care for some further education?

Interpreted your

Quote

"That means at maximum in tabletop to real time conversion, you could fire 6 ER ML at once and instantaneously power down (6 * 5 = 30. Tabletop's total threshold is 30, where ammunition instantly explodes and the mech is powered down, though power downs could happen well before 100% threshold)."

in another way.

Nevertheless, IMHO breaking down artificial TT-rules is ...- artificial. As you said, the TT is divided in 10sec turns, but repesent moving, aiming, firing, weapon chargin etc... But each his own.

But we can agree, that the Nova is a hot ride - in every aspect.

[color=#959595].[/color]

[Zerberus]

Looks like a Kit Fox that listened to mommy and ate his veggies. Not completely blown away, but still pretty nice, will be interesting to drive.

3 words to all those complaining about ghost heat, ridiculously enough on a mech obviously never designed to alpha strike anything (even in TT a Blackhawk could easily generate more than 2x what it could dissipate): Learn fire discipline.

BTW, Kon: I may be mistaken, but IIRC the Kali Yama Big Bore (AC/20) has a 215mm barrel and does (2x10=20) dmg. Not that it`s important, just saying.

Edited by Zerberus, 23 May 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[S3dition]

Koniving, on 23 May 2014 - 11:05 PM, said:

Yeah but that twist was less than 20 degrees in either direction (about the same range as most 'arms' get).
Its also too late for any mech not to have torso twist. Save that for a better made Battletech/Mechwarrior game with balancing that can support it.

Spoiler

If all weapons did their stated damage in 10 seconds instead of all at once, variants would be easy to create, and luxuriously pinpoint damages might never reach more than '30' for twin Gauss and '20' for anything else (as when you follow lore, with the single exception of the Cauldron Born and regardless of Sarna saying 'single shot' [take it as single use, plus if 185mm gun needs 4 shots and 150mm gun need 10 shots then why would a 180mm or 120mm be one shot, especially when other 120mm AC/20s are specifically stated to be 12 shot?], then even twin AC/20s wouldn't have more than 10 damage pinpoint as the largest Inner Sphere AC/20 is the Chemjet Gun at 185mm, which requires 4 shots to do 20 damage, meaning 5 damage per shot).

Now far as the canon, remember that BT was HEAVILY influenced by Gundam and Patlabor. As it got more hashed out it became very specifically influenced by Patlabor and The 08th MS Team (a gundam show that has no gundams; ironically it's the best one I ever watched).

Patlabor if you can ignore the Italian dub (which depressingly is better than the English dub) looks like this. If you stomach it for a few, Ota draws the handgun.

For less talk and more beating each other, if you can stomach the music (just mute it?) you can peer here.

They do use the sights when their main camera / monitors are damaged.

Patlabor's concept can be seen throughout ALL of Battletech's Industrial Mechs.
Harvester has a striking resemblance to certain 'Labors' in Patlabor.

Like in both Patlabor and 08th MS team, the mechs are supported by infantry and vehicles. Patlabor by command cars. 08th by an APC with a Seismic monitor (sound based).


This is also where FASA got its concept for Jumpjets, as BT's lore and 08th MS Team's jumpjets are virtually identical.

There's even rule sets in BT for hand-held weapons that can be holstered using a cargo lift / hoist on the mech itself.

BT's Rifles are heavily influenced from this as well.

Generally the single shot tank-like cannon concept got lost with the Rifles. The only Heavy Rifle I ever found in a book so far was 190mm. Single shot, accurate out to 540 meters when used while moving (lore-wise; any farther and enemies could 'dodge' it easily or the pilot had little chance of hitting. It's hard to counter for wind and other factors inside a machine that can't detect such things). Did 9 damage, but against military grade armor that got cut back to 6.
Now compare the largest AC/20 in the Inner Sphere at 185mm, the Chemjet Gun. 4 round slow-fire burst. The recoil prevents it from being able to zero all 4 shots onto a target at beyond 270 meters (in lore, however, nothing prevents the weapon from hitting well beyond that. However if you can't hit all 4 shots on target, there isn't a point in firing). Each shot does 5 damage. (190mm Heavy Rifle is reduced to 6 damage. 185mm Autocannon fires 4 shots at 5 damage each; coincidence? I think not).

I'm well aware of where it came from. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous that the gun has a sight that can't even be physically placed in front of the cockpit, assuming the pilot actually wanted to us it.

[Koniving]

S3dition, on 23 May 2014 - 11:32 PM, said:

I'm well aware of where it came from. It doesn't make it any less ridiculous that the gun has a sight that can't even be physically placed in front of the cockpit, assuming the pilot actually wanted to us it.

It may not be as ridiculous as you think.
Rotate hand 45 degrees counter-clockwise (from pilot's perspective). Sight is now in front of the cockpit.
They didn't bother to try and fire much beyond 720 meters, so the accuracy requirements for long range shooting just aren't here for needing truly accurate fire. It's just enough to assist with manual targeting.

Edited by Koniving, 23 May 2014 - 11:40 PM.

[Grimmrog]

Well IF THAT is still actually how ghostheat is calculated:
IF tabletop value is 5 heat per ERML
IF 6 is the amount of ghost heat initation
IF, the multiplier for ERML is also 1 like the ML ones

so doing the Math it would mean

This is 6 ERML's beyond Max Free Alpha.
Step 1, look up the 12thth weapon fired number in the Heat Scale table. This is 5.00.
Step 2, calculate base heat from 12 ERML. 12 * 5 heat = 60 base heat.
Step 3, Add the extra heat for the number of weapons fired beyond Max Free Alpha multiplied by the Heat Penalty. 6*5
Step 3a, Multiply heat penalty by the base heat value for the number of weapons beyond Max Free Alpha. 2 extra weapons fired. Each heat calculation for the extra weapons are compounded. (5*(5*1.0))+(5*(5*1.0)+(5*(5*1.0)+(5*(5*1.0)+(5*(5*1.0)+(5*(5*1.0)) = 6*25 = 150 ghost heat penalty.
Step 4, Sum base heat and additional heat. = 210 epic heat for a 12 ERML laser under above meant conditions.

SO lets do this for 11 ERMLS:
base heat 11*5= 55
ghost heat 5*(5*(3*1) = 75

11ERML total: 130heat

and 10 er MLS
10*5 =50
4*(5*(2*1) = 40

10 ERML total: 90


and possibly 9
9*5=45
3*(5*(1,5*1) = 13,5

9ERML total: 48,5

So small table as summary:

12: 210
11: 130
10: 90
09: 48,5

that heat table btw is vey inetresting since the gap between 1 more at very high numbers is horrible high. so throwing out 2 MERL and alpha 10 is quite a lot more effective with dmg/heat
then you have
18dhs according to the simulator have with an elite mech a treshold of 73.44heat.
So even a alpha of 10 is very dangerous.
But only 6 Volleys will generate 30 heat per volley. so you should easily be able throw out 3 volleys in a row on a map with normal heat, since the heat sink time while waiting for weapon cooldown should be good enough. Or you volley two, and then chainfire on the opponent.

also, IF the lasers get a recycle of 3 secons as the regular medium and medium pulselasers, they if also 1 second beam, will produce 1,25H/s meaning with 18 DH's you get a heat sink of 3.59 heat/sec. So you can basically for taking out 2 Lasers and adding another 2 DH's sustain (3.59 heat/sec) sustain 3 ER EMdium laser fire constantly via chainfire?.

So volley out 3x5 and keep shooting should give you a nice and effective lasershow.


I hope the math was done right here, so no guarantee for miscalculations

Edited by Grimmrog, 24 May 2014 - 12:15 AM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

Awesome done, with really big arms! Love it.