325 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

tucsonspeed6, on 25 May 2014 - 09:40 AM, said:

I haven't seen BETTER solutions by the community either. IE: replacing Ghost Heat with convergence alterations won't affect mechs that can use multiple ppcs on a single component like the Battlemaster, and cone of fire would punish people firing a single PPC as much as those firing 5, so why even use it at all? So if the devs have the community to critique their solutions, who will critique the community solutions? Other members of the community? Turns out, the community dismisses other community members just as easily as Russ did. Where do you think the term 'White Knight' came from anyway?

Hm, yes, you might get some occasional issues still. So it's indeed better to apply a mechanic that breaks everything than fixes that only break a few things. Good to know. Also, a proper, Btech correct Heat Threshold was actually the common solution offered for GH. Because extra heatsinks add extra cooling, not capacity.

Also, most intelligent posters, like Koniving, myself and such realize there is no one single thing needed to fix issues, but a series of core mechanics changes, that were recommended by legions of players in early closed beta that would have totally eliminated the issues. But of course, then we hear people whine that we are limiting the mechlab.... then have those same people whine again about the meta, which exists because they whined about us proposing ideas that would have fixed it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

The fact that some of the derps that play this game agree with him really hurts me.

Although it spurs me to raise my kids not to be derps.

[verybad]

Roadbeer, on 25 May 2014 - 01:16 PM, said:

@ OP... NOPE!




Who's fault is it really?

My new favorite youtube clip.

[Aresye]

Techorse, on 25 May 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

This conversation touches on my favorite point about gameplay in MWO.

A lot of people want to play the game as a game. In layman's terms, this just means they want to experience the variety, gameplay, strategy, and enjoy things without the pressure of needing to win every single match. In fact, they get the concept that a loss can help you learn just as much as a win. They want to play, and enjoy themselves.

Then there's the crowd that insists that winning is an objective form of fun. They shouldn't even be here.

The very nature of any competitive game is to win.

You don't see football teams playing experimental plays, joking around, or soaking in the experience of the game to have fun. No, they will use every play that can exploit another side's weakness as many times as possible in order to win.

There is no single player in this game, and there's no real substance to the multiplayer aspect either. There isn't much immersion into the BT universe aside from the fact there are mechs, and it pretty much stops there.

For a lot of us, winning is really the only thing that matters, because there's so little content in this game there literally is no other reason to play it.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 May 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

realize there is no one single thing needed to fix issues, but a series of core mechanics changes

This is the thing I think people seem to miss. Like when we argue about ECM...it's not like we expect to change ECM and not have to reevaluate missiles.

Everything is a series of changes. If we turn off perfect convergence, we need to then revisit weapons to make sure they are still doing what they should be for their tonnage/crits/etc.

If we switch to a proper heat scale, we revisit weapon heat levels and firing cycles.

No one expects a single change to fix everything. Except Paul with Ghost Heat.

Roadbeer, on 25 May 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

DERP

Exactly, there is a reason I haven't exactly been nice to the derps lately. They have gotten exceptionally derpy and preachy lately. Between this guy and Shar Wolf, i'm out of patience with it.

[Mechteric]

Sorry OP, but you're quite off the mark. The competitive crowd should be an effective tool for the developers to determine where to balance next. But until the devs realize this it matters little.

[xX PUG Xx]

It makes me a DERP (sorry I'm a mature person who doesn't actually use language like this but I guess it is derogatory) to have an opinion that doesn't go along with the majority of the mainstream competitive community (whom I believe have just as much right to play the game the way they want to).

I agree partly with the OP simply because (as stated by MANY people above) it's human nature to win by (almost) any means. What I also believe is that those of us who have self control and use that to determine how we play a GAME, tend to have more FUN. To me the game is about the journey along those 15 minutes,

did it have me giggling like a school girl with excitement? ->YES

THAT was a GOOD game (regardless of it being a win or loss).

But at the end of the day each to their own, if peeps want to take a video game to a life or death level, more power to 'em.

Me, I'll be JJ'ing around with my ML's and SRM's having fun.

[Captain Stiffy]

lockwoodx, on 25 May 2014 - 08:29 AM, said:

BAD GAME DESIGN IS AS MUCH THE PLAYER'S FAULT AS IT IS THE DESIGNERS

A system that has holes in it, for malicious intent or otherwise, is imperfect.

To say that it is the players fault for doing what the game client allows is insane.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I just don't understand...games are code. Last I checked NONE of us are coding MW:O.

So how you can blame us for anything...it's just unreal?

The only direct change we've had was when Paul had us vote on upping SRM damage while warning us it could be really bad for assaults...well we voted for it...and SRMs still suck.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

ninjitsu, on 25 May 2014 - 01:20 PM, said:

OP, don't hate on gumpy just because he's better than you

Just used his reply as a basis for another great thread. Everyone's better than me unless it comes to the forums.

Roadbeer, on 25 May 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

And here I was trying to be nice and just using a metaphor... Let me try this again.

Your head is up your ass.

It is human nature to seek out the easy button. You're complaining about 10 million years of human evolution. It is not the players fault that the developers are too lazy to address fundamental flaws in their game.

Remember, Paul thinks weapons are in a good place.

DERP

You can justify your skunky flavor all you want, but the fact is your posts are stale.

Aresye, on 25 May 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

For a lot of us, winning is really the only thing that matters, because there's so little content in this game there literally is no other reason to play it.

There's plenty of content. Like any good narcotic it has been refined to the point of pure poison. The players who just want to have fun are still experimenting with new things.

[Roadbeer]

lockwoodx, on 25 May 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

There's plenty of content.

A hundred different avatars and a dozen maps, does not "Plenty of content" make.

[Vassago Rain]

Roadbeer, on 25 May 2014 - 02:05 PM, said:

A hundred different avatars and a dozen maps, does not "Plenty of content" make.

B-b-b-b-b-ut 250k us dollars a map!

[A banana in the tailpipe]

PGI can be like a pair of hipster parents at times...



It's up to the community to deal with the tryhards by not giving bullies what they want.

Edited by lockwoodx, 25 May 2014 - 03:08 PM.

[Roland]

If you want to see more variety in the types of mechs and weapons used in the game, then the answer is for PGI to make more weapons and mechs viable.

Only an imbecile would think that the answer is for people to just "not use those weapons and mechs". Because competitive players aren't going to intentionally cripple themselves... because they're playing competitively.

Your suggestion that any of the issues are due to players, rather than the people who are in sole control over the game's design, is ridiculous and misguided.

[Mcgral18]

lockwoodx, on 25 May 2014 - 03:07 PM, said:

It's up to the community to deal with the tryhards by not giving bullies what they want.

So...don't play the game? They want you as cannon fodder.

The WubShee does like cannon fodder as well. People who don't torso twist to spread laser damage can be pretty silly.

[YueFei]

You might be projecting too much onto competitive players by calling them "bullies". As if they care how you feel, and as if their reason for equipping themselves with the best mechs and weapons is just to make other players cry. It doesn't occur to you that they do this because they want to win? That it might have nothing to do with your feelings?

Some members of the community *are* organizing to play a version of this game that it feels is better, the stock mech matches. That's a productive activity. Whining about other players' behavior isn't productive.

Hell, if those "bullies" really are the psychopaths you are trying to portray them as, you realize this thread you make will just give them more jollies, right? And that this thread would also be completely useless at convincing them to change their behavior?

I really don't understand the hate directed at competitve players. Do you think I have the right to be indignant at anyone who equips weapons that I don't like? Hey, I know! Maybe I'll put TAG beams and flamers on my mechs. And then rage-gasm at anyone else who dares to put lasers and SRMs on their mechs. How dare they use those "crutch" weapons! They should equip their mechs like I do and fight the only true manly way there is!

Come on. That's not productive. If weapons are OP, complaints are better directed at the developers, not at other players. If some weapons are underperforming, then you gotta complain about those to get them buffed.

You know alot of competitive players have been asking for buffs to underperforming weapons like SRMs, right? The fact that they don't use SRMs doesn't mean they hate SRMs and don't wanna use them. They *do* wanna use them. It makes the game more complex and stimulating when there's a larger variety of viable stuff to tinker with.

It's like how Roland thinks LBX isn't good. That doesn't mean he hates LBX. On the contrary, he wants them to buff LBX to 1.4 damage per pellet. But in the meantime he isn't using LBX. That doesn't make him a "tryhard". Rather, maybe it just means he's not a masochist.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Roland, on 25 May 2014 - 03:12 PM, said:

Your suggestion that any of the issues are due to players, rather than the people who are in sole control over the game's design, is ridiculous and misguided.

Your suggestion that it's solely the parents fault, and not some demented kids is ridiculous and misguided. The kids can think for themselves too.

Wut I did tharrrrr I hope you see it for your own sake.

Edited by lockwoodx, 25 May 2014 - 03:21 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

lockwoodx, on 25 May 2014 - 03:19 PM, said:

Your suggestion that it's solely the parents fault, and not some demented kids is ridiculous and misguided. The kids can think for themselves too.

Wut I did tharrrrr I hope you see it for your own sake.

a message for you from Russ


and you just don't realize it yet

[A banana in the tailpipe]

YueFei, on 25 May 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

You might be projecting too much onto competitive players by calling them "bullies".

Ok I agree "bullies" is a bit harsh. I use that word because MWO is a closed environment unique to other typical FPS games where a "bullied" player has no avenue of retreat such as custom servers or solo content. MWO draws upon the same pool of players so bullies know they have a captive audience.

The real bullies are the ones trying to bully PGI by exploiting "bad game designs" they protested against since the beginning. Now they're jealous PGI is listening to the casuals over them, when before PGI wasn't listening to anyone.

Bishop Steiner, on 25 May 2014 - 03:21 PM, said:

a message for you from Russ


and you just don't realize it yet

FAIL... he's changed his tune because his wallet is bleeding. Now the tryhards are bleeding along with him. I want to mend the wounds before it's too late and surgery is needed. Jaded folk just want to gut the whole project but I still see there's hope as soon as the attitude of the players reach a harmony.

Edited by lockwoodx, 25 May 2014 - 03:27 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

lockwoodx, on 25 May 2014 - 03:24 PM, said:

Ok I agree "bullies" is a bit harsh. I use that word because MWO is a closed environment unique to other typical FPS games where a "bullied" player has an avenue of retreat such as custom servers. MWO draws upon the same pool of players so bullies know they have a captive audience.

The real bullies are the ones trying to bully PGI by exploiting "bad game designs" they protested against since the beginning. Now they're jealous PGI is listening to the casuals over them, when before PGI wasn't listening to anyone.




FAIL... he's changed his tune because his wallet is bleeding. Now the tryhards are bleeding along with him. I want to med the wounds before it's too late and surgery is needed. Jaded folk just want to gut the whole project but I still see there's hope as soon as the attitude of the players read a harmony.

Lolz.

Funny how out of touch you are. Few of us remotely want to gut the whole thing. You are just foolish enough to believe more bandaids is the cure for an arterial bleed, and so are content when little Russy and Paul come up with yet another fix that fixes nothing and breaks 3 more things.

You see, sometimes, the patient needs surgery if it is going to survive. PGI is almost at the point of metastasizing, but fools like you keep thinking good diet and vitamins will keep the cancer from spreading.