157 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 08:28 PM, said:

With ballistics or missiles, its quite possible I will give it a shot.

Torso hitboxes are probably going to be the final killer - could have hitboxes like the stalker - probably won't though.

As for weaponry - stock you get 2B 1M to back it up with - pair of UAC10+whatever+8flamers?

ShadowWolf Kell, on 26 May 2014 - 08:30 PM, said:

Wonder if they'll add in an Alt Config with Marshmellows.

Or a cockpit item!

[Koniving]

Pariah Devalis, on 26 May 2014 - 08:25 PM, said:

Largely agree, though it does make some difference. Going to be a lot easier to hit the CT of the mech now. Before it stood a chance of "stalkering" the CT to really abuse the survivability of the Clan XL Engine. Now it is significantly easier to core out, judging by the image.

Again, though, some of it might be perspective. Not all, however.

Just because it's got a dome doesn't quite mean that.


From CarrionCrow's intelligent hitboxes.


You'd be surprised.

I was personally hoping for Raven-like hitboxes.

Ever notice you don't kill a Raven by its torso, you kill it by its legs most of the time?

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 08:33 PM.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Shar Wolf, on 26 May 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Torso hitboxes are probably going to be the final killer - could have hitboxes like the stalker - probably won't though.

As for weaponry - stock you get 2B 1M to back it up with - pair of UAC10+whatever+8flamers?


Or a cockpit item!

Oh man I'd soooo get that. Melting Marshmellow cockpit item. With how hot some of my builds are lately, it's PERFECT!

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

From CarrionCrow's intelligent hitboxes.


You'd be surprised.

Which - from my aiming skills - would utterly and completely GUT it's ability to tank at all.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Shar Wolf, on 26 May 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Which - from my aiming skills - would utterly and completely GUT it's ability to tank at all.

Yeah well it's easy to core. Just shoot it between the legs. Yeah yeah, shooting below the belt and all that. Torso twist THAT, sucka!

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 26 May 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Which - from my aiming skills - would utterly and completely GUT it's ability to tank at all.

It's about the same.
Except the 'arms' bleed into the side torsos, providing an extra layer of 50% protection when the arm gets destroyed.
Kinda like here.

The arm would take most of the side hits, frying it before the hunch (from that side).
It'd then give 50% damage reduction to all hits on that orange area.


This design..

given the height of the 'shoulders', would give a high protection against LRMs (at the cost of ripping through the arms).
Though aside from hitting the 'head', it'd be impossible to hit the CT from the side (which is funny; right now it's easier to hit the CT from the side than the front).

[Alaskan Nobody]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 26 May 2014 - 08:36 PM, said:

Yeah well it's easy to core. Just shoot it between the legs. Yeah yeah, shooting below the belt and all that. Torso twist THAT, sucka!

Dunno about you - but most of the Stalkers I fight - are actually pretty good at protecting that crotch.

Kinda helps that the only Stalkers I see - tend to be the ones that have the torso twist TO protect that crotch.

Or did you completely miss the fact that his idea renders the entire top half of the mech (from the front) as CT?

Gee.

Yeah.


Lets trade something we CAN protect.... for something we cannot.

That would be a BRILLIANT move.

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

It's about the same.

Check how much of the CT is exposed.

Then try that again.


But then again - that was from MY ability to aim.

Edit:

FOR THE RECORD (since this always seems to come across as me thinking his ideas were garbage (WHERE DID I SAY WORD ONE ABOUT THE LEGS?))

He had a lot of good ideas - but his ideas were no where NEAR as good (read: PERFECTION!) as everyone kept insisting.

Edited by Shar Wolf, 26 May 2014 - 08:40 PM.

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 26 May 2014 - 08:39 PM, said:

Or did you completely miss the fact that his idea renders the entire top half of the mech (from the front) as CT?

I didn't miss you mentioning that, but the fact is if you look back at the other stalker.... He didn't really change anything there at all. The current Stalker is already like that. From the comments, he specifically said he was afraid to touch it. It might be more pronounced in color but the torso setup is pretty much the same.
The crotch got changed to LL and RL.

There's a reason why Stalkers die so easily to LRMs but not to cannon fire.
And why they are so easy to kill from above.

At worst it's literally a 'line thickness' of the original hitbox drawing 'larger' for the CT along the top. Like the thread of my floss is about the same thickness of difference. Considering how much CT was lost, it's barely anything (and can easily be a mis-drawing).

Now that said his "no death from legs" and straight split for the legs ideas are kinda lame.
Mind you Paul changed that to a Bikini on the handfull of mechs that got 'touched' in their naughty places.
I personally would have done an oblong "u" curve at the half way point of the pelvis for CT on all mechs.

Edited by Koniving, 26 May 2014 - 08:49 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 08:42 PM, said:

I didn't miss you mentioning that, but the fact is if you look back at the other stalker.... He didn't really change anything there at all.

He did actually - as his front CT is also bigger from the front.



I apologize for the tone of that last post - but peoples reactions to my reactions to his changes get on my nerves.

(and yet they expect everyone else to be fine with them having a bad reaction to whatever they have a bad reaction to....hmmmmm)

As for his changes to the leg hitboxes (the crotch)

He was told repeatedly that if they made that change it would push the meta to legging - and his response was "No one would leg anyone!"
(he was very adamant about that particular hitbox - got offended when PGI didn't do THAT part as he wanted)

And since that was the point he kept pushing....






We are getting off topic though (and I am getting ready for sleep)

The DW might have hitboxes like the Stalker - it might have them like the Dragon or Catapult.
Won't know till we get it.

[Gasoline]

I was so looking forward to the Dire Wolf since Alex' artwork on this one was plain fantastic. And then I saw that pic... To be polite, I don't quite like it. Yeah, it makes it slightly easier to hit from the sides, but it looks so ugly and obliterated the awesome artwork.

Also... given the enlargenment of the torso relative to the arms and legs which sticked to the artwork it looks hilariously unproportional.

Spoiler

Looks like you rammed this through the back of your garage...


Or that?

[Khobai]

The bottom line is it doesnt matter if the Daishi is just a giant center torso like the Awesome. Because unlike the Awesome it has ******** weapon loadouts like x3 CUAC20s/x4 CERML or x2 Gauss/x2 ERPPC/x4CERML. WITH THAT KIND OF FIREPOWER WHO CARES.

Its like a slightly slower Atlas but with twice the firepower and extra DHS. So anyone whos already good in an Atlas will be twice as good in a Daishi.

Edited by Khobai, 26 May 2014 - 11:55 PM.

[Grimmrog]

Koniving, on 26 May 2014 - 08:31 PM, said:

Just because it's got a dome doesn't quite mean that.


From CarrionCrow's intelligent hitboxes.


You'd be surprised.

I was personally hoping for Raven-like hitboxes.

Ever notice you don't kill a Raven by its torso, you kill it by its legs most of the time?

wow, that Cataphract head hitbox is amazingly small.

[TanE]

Grimmrog, on 27 May 2014 - 04:25 AM, said:

wow, that Cataphract head hitbox is amazingly small.

On first one/two days of introduction of the Cataphract, the whole canopy was the head hit box. That was amazingly big!

[Satan n stuff]

Jin Ma, on 26 May 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

"this mech is going to be gamebreaking, we'd better make him as ugly as possible

If that's how they're balancing it, can we have the Annihilator now?

[LordKnightFandragon]

Satan n stuff, on 27 May 2014 - 04:44 AM, said:

If that's how they're balancing it, can we have the Annihilator now?

yes, but the biggest gun it can carry is an AC2, because the ability to boat 4 AC20s is deemed to OP and cant possibly be allowed to be used in game.

[SirLANsalot]

Khobai, on 26 May 2014 - 11:48 PM, said:

The bottom line is it doesnt matter if the Daishi is just a giant center torso like the Awesome. Because unlike the Awesome it has ******** weapon loadouts like x3 CUAC20s/x4 CERML or x2 Gauss/x2 ERPPC/x4CERML. WITH THAT KIND OF FIREPOWER WHO CARES.

Its like a slightly slower Atlas but with twice the firepower and extra DHS. So anyone whos already good in an Atlas will be twice as good in a Daishi.

Try same speed as an atlas.

Most of the Atlas's you see that do pack the right weapons, are running STD 300 or 325's, anything above that and your starting to waste tonnage on speed that doesn't help you, at the loss of firepower. Running twin LBX, 2 ERLL and 2 SRM6 on a D runs a STD325, and the DDC runs it with a 300 and an extra SRM.


What I was able to come up with on SSW, with ammo, is 4 LBX5 (2 in each torso, 3tons slug 2 tons canister) and 6 ERML and 2 ERLL with 18DHS on the Daishi. So basically you are packing a CTF-4x (the 4 AC5 build thats been around since she came out) in the torso and a Battlemaster in the arms (battlemasters 6 ML in the torso and ERLL in the arm) in terms of weapon loadouts. Still had .5 ton left over which with armor able to be adjusted, hopefully can be turned into another DHS. The mech is going to be a beast!

[Satan n stuff]

LordKnightFandragon, on 27 May 2014 - 04:47 AM, said:

yes, but the biggest gun it can carry is an AC2, because the ability to boat 4 AC20s is deemed to OP and cant possibly be allowed to be used in game.

Is that somehow worse than triple Ultra AC/20s?

[Pariah Devalis]

SirLANsalot, on 27 May 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Try same speed as an atlas.

Most of the Atlas's you see that do pack the right weapons, are running STD 300 or 325's, anything above that and your starting to waste tonnage on speed that doesn't help you, at the loss of firepower. Running twin LBX, 2 ERLL and 2 SRM6 on a D runs a STD325, and the DDC runs it with a 300 and an extra SRM.


What I was able to come up with on SSW, with ammo, is 4 LBX5 (2 in each torso, 3tons slug 2 tons canister) and 6 ERML and 2 ERLL with 18DHS on the Daishi. So basically you are packing a CTF-4x (the 4 AC5 build thats been around since she came out) in the torso and a Battlemaster in the arms (battlemasters 6 ML in the torso and ERLL in the arm) in terms of weapon loadouts. Still had .5 ton left over which with armor able to be adjusted, hopefully can be turned into another DHS. The mech is going to be a beast!

Not a bad loadout, though that might be a little light on ammo. Might I suggest dropping 2 ERMLas for two more tons of ammo, one ton of each solid and canister, and half a ton less leg armor to free up another ton of solid ammo? That would bring you up to a solid 8 tons to feed four guns.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Satan n stuff, on 27 May 2014 - 05:04 AM, said:

Is that somehow worse than triple Ultra AC/20s?

Well if UAC's get changed into burst weapons, firing mutliple low damage shots instead of a single high damage alpha shot, just fired twice as fast, like the UAC5 is now....then no, 4 AC20s would be alot better.

[Bishop Steiner]

SirLANsalot, on 27 May 2014 - 04:55 AM, said:

Try same speed as an atlas.

Most of the Atlas's you see that do pack the right weapons, are running STD 300 or 325's, anything above that and your starting to waste tonnage on speed that doesn't help you, at the loss of firepower. Running twin LBX, 2 ERLL and 2 SRM6 on a D runs a STD325, and the DDC runs it with a 300 and an extra SRM.


What I was able to come up with on SSW, with ammo, is 4 LBX5 (2 in each torso, 3tons slug 2 tons canister) and 6 ERML and 2 ERLL with 18DHS on the Daishi. So basically you are packing a CTF-4x (the 4 AC5 build thats been around since she came out) in the torso and a Battlemaster in the arms (battlemasters 6 ML in the torso and ERLL in the arm) in terms of weapon loadouts. Still had .5 ton left over which with armor able to be adjusted, hopefully can be turned into another DHS. The mech is going to be a beast!

most successful Atlas builds I see run between a 325 and 350 standard. Because with the 300 you turn like a Pig. All those guns are next to useless if you can't track anything faster or more agile than a Stalker or Banshee.