105 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Wolfways, on 27 May 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Just to balance this out...
When you hold all the cards you don't need to make threats.

True, but when you took the steps to actually buy all the Cards, you kind of have that right.....

[Wolfways]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 05:45 PM, said:

True, but when you took the steps to actually buy all the Cards, you kind of have that right.....

I agree, i just don't like it when people who don't know what really happened post things as fact.
(NOTE: I don't know what really happened either.)

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

General Taskeen, on 27 May 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

...

The problem I have with the "if PGI fails, someone else will do it" argument is, who?

If, for some reason, there is a major implosion of ghost heat, ECM, missed deadlines and unfulfilled promises that causes PGI and IGP to abandon MWO ...

Why would a big developer (one with the resources to do it right, and quickly), or, for that matter another small developer (one with similar resources to PGI) want to go into a deal with MicroSoft? It would have to be PC exclusive or (please, no) PC/XBone exclusive, and it's unlikely they will get anything but grief from M$'s small army of lawyers, budgeteers, and accountants.

If MWO fails, why would someone else want to develop a product for an IP that hasn't had a "successful" game in (at this point) over 12 years (by the time PGI's license expires, it will be closer to 20 years) and deal with the same fanbase that didn't support PGI/IGP?

Unless there's a seriously well-established game studio that's doing the KickStarter project, I really doubt that this fanbase would throw money at hopes and dreams again so soon.

(Edit: spelling)

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 27 May 2014 - 06:37 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

is there like...Cliffsnotes for the relevant points?


Please?

How about a pair of bifocals? It might help your skimming habits if you could actually read what's on the screen.

Edited by lockwoodx, 27 May 2014 - 07:01 PM.

[El Bandito]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 27 May 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

If MWO fails, why would someone else want to develop a product for an IP that hasn't had a "successful" game in (at this point) over 12 years (by the time PGI's license expires, it will be closer to 20 years)

So PGI got the license for another 8 years? {Redacted}.

I hope this helps them get the CW going...but not too hopeful.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 May 2014 - 07:22 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Livewyr, on 27 May 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

(Once in a while I would picture an Autocannon or a Gauss Rifle firing and get a hankering to play- eventually that led me to where I am now.) I give credit, where credit is due.
U.I. 2.0- Needs work on smoothness and detail, *not* garbage.
Comm Warfare, thoroughly disappointed in lack of progress.
ECM, a four-letter-word (acronym) with 3 letters.
Private matches/lobbies- EXCELLENT. Can always be improved, but had no initial real complaints.
Mechs, pretty.
Maps, pretty but few. (Bases need changed on Alpine)

And I could go on.. but the point is: After being so far to both sides, one at a time, I've come to a balanced look at PGI.

They've done wonderful things (particularly Alex) and they've done mind boggling things (ECM/Information Warfare) but they're still going. Doomsday avenue 1: These guys obviously do care about the game, whether it's a love of B-Tech, or just putting food on the table at home, they want it to succeed. (If it was just a cash grab, they'd have to answer to their investors and probably several civil/class, corporate, and/or government lawsuits. Not healthy for the livelihood of a programmer/businessman.)

Livewyr I respect you., I've played with you and against you over the course of my time with MWO, so know that what i say is not said with malice. I don't disagree that PGI has not completely ****** up totally everything they have touched. Credit where credit is due? OK.

MWO stands as the best feeling and prettiest Stompy robot game ever, it's not a small feat but that's as much as they get. Their follow through on that is what buggers them.

To address your points:

1. UI 2.0 is in fact garbage. It is an embarrassment that any professional UI designer would disown. Could it be fixed significantly by a couple easy changes sure, but that doesn't change the fact that what they released as complete was execrable. The ease of use is non-existant, it violates basic rules like centering the focus of attention and shuffles everything off to tiny edges. It's bad, and defending it doesn't help
2. Community warfare aka. the reason many people invested in this game, is MIA with no real completion ETA. Yeah Russ gave a date but when was the last time PGI hit any deadline they gave. It's not just disappointing it's insulting.
3. ECM.. well it's shite and I agree with your concise evaluation
4.Private matches... well mixed bag, certainly not a 100% thumbs up. two points of beef why pay for options on this? second why totally mishandle the MM when releasing it?
5. Mechs - another mixed bag, some good some bad but it's aesthetic so whatever..
6. Maps, thje ones they have are good but having the amount of maps they have after two years is just embarrassing and lets not forget that they thing we are all lobotomy victims with the $250k a map number. wow.

I could go on as well (matchmaking, ghost heat, 3pv, stupid meta, jump jets, pin point convergence, general weapon balance, ppc's, lrms, etc...) but the point is PGI has mismanaged, mishandled, and failed to communicate and almost every turn. They have burned a lot of good will and shown a lot of incompetence at the highest levels. The long and the short of it is that we as consumers not only have the right but the duty to try and dissuade people from funding MWO if it is clearly going in the wrong direction as we now feel it is. I'm not a doomsayer I am a fallen white knight... fallen because i saw the truth of it and i couldn't lie to myself anymore. I also seem to find myself in good company here at this point.

MWO is on a precipice, we as a community either force a change or we resign ourselves to the trash that PGI will make on their current trajectory.

Again this isn't personal, I just disagree with your premise and conclusion.

Edited by Agent of Change, 27 May 2014 - 07:28 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

lockwoodx, on 27 May 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

How about a pair of bifocals? It might help your skimming habits if you could actually read what's on the screen.

and yet, even a microscope wouldn't make your point any more valid, or less stupid. Funny how that works.

[Agent of Change]

lockwoodx, on 27 May 2014 - 07:01 PM, said:

How about a pair of bifocals? It might help your skimming habits if you could actually read what's on the screen.

Aren't you done reducing the general legitimacy of discussions for the day?

I thought after your magnum opus ended up where it belongs you'd at least take a nap.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent of Change, on 27 May 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Aren't you done reducing the general legitimacy of discussions for the day?

I thought after your magnum opus ended up where it belongs you'd at least take a nap.

well, in fairness, he is coming off as a Rhode Scholar compared to the infantile diatribe Shar Wolf has devolved into. Holy mackerel it's shocking how quick some people seem to flip a switch from relatively intelligent to petulant child. Of course that is just commenting more about how bad some other threads have gotten, and not so much to any validity to Locky, here.

[Agent of Change]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 07:31 PM, said:

well, in fairness, he is coming off as a Rhode Scholar compared to the infantile diatribe Shar Wolf has devolved into. Holy mackerel it's shocking how quick some people seem to flip a switch from relatively intelligent to petulant child. Of course that is just commenting more about how bad some other threads have gotten, and not so much to any validity to Locky, here.

I am not prepared to turn on Shar just yet, the bonds of bird land are deep. but i can see where you are coming from.

[DaZur]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 04:02 PM, said:

But I would say the majority of the Critics today, are not of that ilk, but are more like myself, or many others, former champions and white knights, who grew burned out and disillusioned, and finally during one borked patch after another, orr listening to another NGNG Interview with a Dev yammering on with ideas, clearly out of touch with the majority of their core community....... and it just snapped.

Heck, i can't even remember what pushed me over to the "Dark Side".

Thing is, most of us, still want the game to succeed. Many of us still WANT to give them the benefit of the doubt. Many of us still see the underlying, if untapped potential to the game.

Pffft... I likely would have snapped long ago if I wasn't for the fact that I enjoy the core game warts and all. Truth is I want the whole tamale like everyone else... I'm just ambivalent to a fault.

It's like going to a steak joint and getting a delicious steak only to find one side is a bit "chewy"... I can have a hissy fit and demand they re-make my steak... while I sit pissed off and angrily noshing on bread sticks waiting for a refire. Or I can choose to chew around the chewy bit and enjoy the rest of steak "now"... ultimately leaving largely satiated.

MW:O is my chewy steak... I chew around the grizzly stuff and still manage to find enjoyment in what's left.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent of Change, on 27 May 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

I am not prepared to turn on Shar just yet, the bonds of bird land are deep. but i can see where you are coming from.

Oh, I totally hope you don't have to.

But after 2 days of unrelenting rants, baseless accusations ,and mocking lack of actual arguments, whilst cherry picking the context out of anything I said, I realized I no longer had the same option. So I merely gave him his wish,. He said because I disliked like the K" arms being small, I was a meany head or some such silliness, and he didn't respect me anymore.... well,hey cool, then cut loose and go.

But good god, this ain't grade school, I don't expect drama with one to become drama with all. If you and he have a break, let it be from your own head butting, lol.

But good gosh, it doesn't change how amazing thick those posts were.

DaZur, on 27 May 2014 - 07:37 PM, said:

Pffft... I likely would have snapped long ago if I wasn't for the fact that I enjoy the core game warts and all. Truth is I want the whole tamale like everyone else... I'm just ambivalent to a fault.

It's like going to a steak joint and getting a delicious steak only to find one side is a bit "chewy"... I can have a hissy fit and demand they re-make my steak... while I sit pissed off and angrily noshing on bread sticks waiting for a refire. Or I can choose to chew around the chewy bit and enjoy the rest of steak "now"... ultimately leaving largely satiated.

MW:O is my chewy steak... I chew around the grizzly stuff and still manage to find enjoyment in what's left.

no different really than my take, else I wouldn't have bought 6000mc a week ago.

Well, that and SMM reminded me how fun the core game was before it got lost under mountains of bad code and worse fixes.

[TKSax]

Jun Watarase, on 27 May 2014 - 03:01 PM, said:

Why?

Lets say we were to spend 10 hours writing up very long and detailed suggestions. What are the odds of it getting into the game? Pretty much zero (ask anyone who has been here since closed beta).

See ECM. Plenty of very well thought out and detailed posts have been made as to why the current implementation is horrible, complete with suggestions. And yet we still have this ridiculous cloaking mechanism that makes you immune to LRMs/streaks with a 1.5 ton module. How many of the suggestions were used? Zero?

We do not get compensated in any way for posting suggesitons and feedback, we do not even get recognized, nor is there any indication that the suggestions and feedback are taken seriously at all....so the logical conclusion is that we shouldnt do it.

Even in the reddit Q&A, Russ refused to discuss the PPC/Ballistic boating meta which has been a core problem plaguing the game for like....a year?

So at least this is what Niko says they think about feedback.,..

http://www.reddit.co..._reason/chphcui

Quote

This. We may all have different opinions on how to run a game. Or how designs should change.

But on that very note I can only offer the words of wisdom -purportedly- from another, well-regarded developer https://fbcdn-sphoto..._66320409_n.png

Admittedly, we do more facepalming than laughing, because we do want to try to explain to players why certain ideas just won't work, rather than leaving them in the dark. Some will, however, just as often tell us that the sky is red, simply because we stated it was blue.[/color]

Yea PGI has 14 years of making grate games to fall back on and facepalm feedback and suggestions.

Edited by TKSax, 27 May 2014 - 07:44 PM.

[Agent of Change]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Oh, I totally hope you don't have to.

But after 2 days of unrelenting rants, baseless accusations ,and mocking lack of actual arguments, whilst cherry picking the context out of anything I said, I realized I no longer had the same option. So I merely gave him his wish,. He said because I disliked like the K" arms being small, I was a meany head or some such silliness, and he didn't respect me anymore.... well,hey cool, then cut loose and go.

But good god, this ain't grade school, I don't expect drama with one to become drama with all. If you and he have a break, let it be from your own head butting, lol.

But good gosh, it doesn't change how amazing thick those posts were.


no different really than my take, else I wouldn't have bought 6000mc a week ago.

Well, that and SMM reminded me how fun the core game was before it got lost under mountains of bad code and worse fixes.

I make no bones about what i am. I have a general mission in gaming forums i frequent, though no other place has yet given me a k-town. I just want civilized discussion incluging CIVIL disagreement. When the time comes I take up the mantle, and strike where is needed. Roadbeer is gone now. Many of the old PLJ are gone now, there are few of us left.

I'm not the poster the forum wants I am the poster the forum deserves

This Post brought to you by

the Post-Lerian Jihad

We Post Better Than you

Edited by Agent of Change, 27 May 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent of Change, on 27 May 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

I make no bones about what i am. I have a general mission in gaming forums i frequent, though no other place has yet given me a k-town. I just want civilized discussion incluging CIVIL disagreement. When the time comes I take up the mantle, and strike where is needed. Roadbeer is gone now. Many of the old PLJ are gone now, there are few of us left.

I'm not the poster the forum wants I am the poster the forum deserves

This Post brought to you by

the Post-Lerian Jihad

We Post Better Than you

Roadbeer still is here regularly on the forums..... or did I miss something?

[Agent of Change]

Bishop Steiner, on 27 May 2014 - 07:48 PM, said:

Roadbeer still is here regularly on the forums..... or did I miss something?

I'm not going to speculate, he can speak for himself if he chooses. But I don't expect him on a daily basis at this point.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Agent of Change, on 27 May 2014 - 07:27 PM, said:

Aren't you done reducing the general legitimacy of discussions for the day?

I thought after your magnum opus ended up where it belongs you'd at least take a nap.

Aww someone's having trouble sitting down. I endorsed moving it after being given a generous amount of time for the community to digest my valid points. That's why I dropped an arty strike at my feet and thanked you ladies for the dance. It was clear tryhards were just going to troll worse and worse making me either repeat myself or troll them back because they had reached the point of desperation. It's ironic how they both abuse the game's and forum community when they don't get their way. Bullies will be bullies after all.

I think the OP made some good points himself which is why he got a like from me.

Cheers

[Agent of Change]

lockwoodx, on 27 May 2014 - 08:09 PM, said:

Aww someone's having trouble sitting down. I endorsed moving it after being given a generous amount of time for the community to digest my valid points. That's why I dropped an arty strike at my feet and thanked you ladies for the dance. It was clear tryhards were just going to troll worse and worse making me either repeat myself or troll them back because they had reached the point of desperation. It's ironic how they both abuse the game's and forum community when they don't get their way. Bullies will be bullies after all.

I think the OP made some good points himself which is why he got a like from me.

Cheers

I admire your ability to see what you want to see. You should market that, you'd make a mint on the self help circuit.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent of Change, on 27 May 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

I admire your ability to see what you want to see. You should market that, you'd make a mint on the self help circuit.

until his agent and publicist tried to tell him how to make himself more marketable. It kind of becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Can I buy you guys a beer to help you relax?


You've been hitting the hard stuff too often lately.

Edited by lockwoodx, 27 May 2014 - 08:50 PM.