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King Crab Versus Dire Wolf + Lots Of Tabletop.

Started by Koniving, May 31 2014 11:42 PM

203 replies to this topic

#101 Koniving

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Posted 08 October 2014 - 01:31 PM

View PostReno Blade, on 08 October 2014 - 10:05 AM, said:

I would like to see this kind of "game" with paperdoll and map for certain key frames or just every 5 rounds.
Reading a megamek log isn't really exciting if you don't/didn't play the/that game yourself.

Sadly MWT didnt make it, but MM and MWT was always a nice way to play TT without the need for 10h and lots of space :P


I agree. I didn't think of it at the time.

This is why I've been working on writing fluff to go with it. But despite how the fight lasted less than 6 minutes, the amount of detail going into that 6 minutes is overwhelming.

View PostPht, on 08 October 2014 - 09:52 AM, said:

geeze Koniving ... How did you wind up stuck into those nasty tight quarters??!?

The entire map was close quarters. Lots of cover from forests to buildings to streets. I had originally planned and it started out as an ambush from the trees, but I discovered the Locust first and I couldn't attack it quickly enough. By the time I got a visual sighting with either mech (only radar contact and you can't attack a radar contact), the Locust sped away at its incredible 129.6 kph + sprint.

We couldn't keep up, but as I was going after it I discovered the other mechs.

#102 Koniving

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 07:03 AM

View PostRedshift2k5, on 01 June 2014 - 10:23 PM, said:

Hmm. Feel like drawing a King Crab stuck on top of a pillar now -.-

Did you ever draw that king crab? I wanna see.

#103 Koniving

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 06:42 PM

Taking a brief pause of the Phoenix versus Clan wave 1 first tier to announce....

We have the results of the Black Knight versus the Grasshopper.

....It's a tie. Two matches, one win each.

Details with screens will go here tomorrow.

#104 Lordred

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Posted 13 October 2014 - 08:07 PM

Spoilers:

Both 'Mechs wound up face down in the dirt with only one leg.

#105 Koniving

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 05:29 PM

Black Knight (Koniving) versus Grasshopper (Lordred).

Round 1.

The first 10 seconds; the stage is set.
The environment is a hill-laiden terrain with lots of light woods.
Both battlemechs are deployed and cannot see one another. The Grass Hopper to the North and the Black Knight to the South.

Spoiler


The two discover each other within 10 seconds after being within 150 to 180 meters.
Posted Image

They engage immediately.
Spoiler

In the initial exchange, the Grasshopper scores one laser hit and one LRM-5 hit.
The Black Knight scores more damage with its Large Laser than the Grass hopper, but between two large lasers and a PPC the Black Knight has already melted a heatsink.
Both mechs took all blows to their left sides, so they favored using their left sides to absorb enemy block enemy fire.

The Grasshopper rapidly encloses the distance, jump jetting over the unfavorable terrain to both fire and kick.
Spoiler

It seems the Grasshopper has turned around the initial engagement which favored the Black Knight.

The Grasshopper hopped to the side of the Black Knight, it's unable to return any attacks.
Spoiler

The Grasshopper fails its attempt at a kick and falls over.

The Black Knight has the initiative and reacts.
Posted Image
Damaged and seeking to return the favor, the 75 ton Black Knight moves in to shoot and kick the 70 ton Grasshopper. Due to chivalry, the Knight chooses to fight head on.

Posted Image
Spoiler

...and loses both a leg and consciousness.

Spoiler

Grasshopper wins in 1 minute, 10 seconds approximately by execution (headshot).

Edited by Koniving, 14 October 2014 - 05:39 PM.

#106 Pht

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 05:54 PM

Say, Koniving, what branch of MM are you using? Current stable? Or one of the betas?

Speaking of which, do you bother with +8 or higher to-hits in anything other than "I have nothing to lose by firing" or desperation shots?

... Or maybe I should just read the logs...

#107 Koniving

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Posted 14 October 2014 - 06:26 PM

Black Knight versus Grasshopper Round 2.
Again using pretty close to the oldest variants to exist.
Posted Image
This time Grasshopper piloted by Koniving and Black Knight piloted by Lordred.

The map is mostly flat lands surrounded entirely by rising hills. This time the Black Knight begins in the south.
Immediately both sides find and engage each other.
Posted Image
(Blue numbers indicate walking speeds, neither mech is going faster than 48.8 kph if even getting near that.

The first exchange.
Posted Image
Spoiler

Everyone misses.

As the two continue to fight, it becomes apparent that the Black Knight is under-cooled.
Spoiler


The Grasshopper scores several hits, the Black Knight isn't so lucky.

From 30 to 40 seconds the fight rapidly degrades into an all out brawl at 30 meters or less.

Spoiler

Imagine if you will a martial arts flick, you know how the two fighters will kick each other in the shin at the same time when going for each other's head? That's what happened, both mechs kicked each other in the same leg!

Posted Image
They continue to go at it, the Black Knight trying to gain some distance and the Grasshopper rapidly closing.
Spoiler


Again, they both kicked each other at the same time, hitting each other's kicking legs! Both maintain their balance.

After the second brutal exchange, the Black Knight moves in reverse in hopes of safely adding its PPC to the fight. The Grasshopper, too, also moves in reverse to be able to add the LRMs to the mixture while taking the bet that the Black Knight will miss with its PPC.


Spoiler


Taking the hit from a PPC quickly changes the Grasshopper's mind about this idea and it immediately jumpjets.
This time the grasshopper has an idea and uses the LRMs to deliberately start a fire where the Black Knight stands to use the BK's bad cooling against it!
Posted Image
Spoiler


The Grasshopper, feeling a little too confident, attempts a Death from Above!

Spoiler

Intercepted and shot out of the sky! The Grasshopper is knocked out of the air before completing its death from above!
Grasshopper fell on its back for 21 damage on the landing! Foot, hip and jumpjet are broken!

The grasshopper manages to get to its feet by some miracle.
Posted Image

Spoiler


After another exchange of fire, the Black Knight tries to punch the Grasshopper. In one of the blows, the Grasshopper tried to catch the fist resulting in having its own hand destroyed.

"I'm not letting you get away," Lordred said as he tried to corner the Grasshopper.
With both mechs still standing and the Grasshopper unable to walk, it jumpjets away and turns mid-air to fire.
"...Guess I am...letting you get away."
Posted Image
Spoiler


Seeking to not stand in the same spot for too long, the Grasshopper makes another 120 meter (horizontal) leap, this time botching his landing!
Spoiler

A full 20 seconds tick by since that jump and he is now conscious.

Spoiler

Desperate, the grasshopper melted a heatsink. Knocked down again.

Intent to get up, the pilot soon discovers he has no arms with which to get up. With only the LRM-5 left he locks on target and goes to fire... Nothing. He jams the button again and again... Nothing. The ammunition is gone.

There is nothing he can do.
Spoiler

Black Knight wins. Grasshopper destroyed by destruction of CT.
Total battle time 2 minutes and 20 seconds.
Posted Image

Thank you everyone.

View PostPht, on 14 October 2014 - 05:54 PM, said:

Say, Koniving, what branch of MM are you using? Current stable? Or one of the betas?

Speaking of which, do you bother with +8 or higher to-hits in anything other than "I have nothing to lose by firing" or desperation shots?

... Or maybe I should just read the logs...


A slightly older beta but we frequently update. I frequently add a certain set of mods to Megamek, specifically megamek HQ, so that it will create random events when advancing days in a Campaign. (Bar fights, sabotage, injuries, various other things even when not in action to further make things interesting).

Once I learned how to read the percent chance of hits in shots, I soon figured out how to gauge the success of shots. So at first I'd shoot regardless, now not so much. I only use desperation shots when the need is dire now.

Edited by Koniving, 15 October 2014 - 07:36 AM.

#108 Koniving

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 01:25 PM

Upcoming new matches:

Phoenix package + Resistance package against Clan Wave I (tier 2) and Clan Wave II.

Phoenix package versus Resistance package.

Clan wave I tier 1 versus Clan Wave I tier 2

Clan Wave II versus Phoenix.
Clan Wave II versus Resistance.

Some other random fights for fun.

#109 Koniving

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 01:40 PM

Starting glimpse of the first (of two) Phoenix / Resistance versus Clan Wave I tier 2 and Clan Wave II match.

MWO style; (basic rules, no melee, no blind stuff).
Posted Image

Second glimpse.
Posted Image
The red discoloration is ECM. The Clans have it this round.

Edited by Koniving, 24 October 2014 - 02:16 PM.

#110 Thomas G Wolf

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 01:48 PM

As a 30 year Tabletop vetran I call BS, no real BT player would overheat his Direwolf in the first round like that unless the guy was a total and utter noob, I have NEVER in all of my years playing BT tabletop ever had a problem with a King Crab, they are easy kills end of a true story. Will you guys please stop trying to make the King Crab into something it never was please because all this hipe about that mech is only going to end in tears when folks find out for themselves that this mech is NOT what you dreamers have made it out to be, gimme an atlas each and every day of the week rather then that totally overrated heap of scrap metal.

#111 Koniving

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 01:51 PM

Ever heard of playing for fun? o.O; Sometimes people do things for the sake of doing things. After all, everyone thinks you're entitled to fire all your weapons at once for the sake of "oh you can do it in tabletop." Sometimes we like to show, "Bullshit, you can't."

In that particular match, the Dire Wolf was overzealous (deliberately to see if it can be done as so many claim), and that was the result. Meanwhile in MWO, you can fire ALL THAT and just shutdown for 1 second with no damage. And that's with ghost heat.


Edited by Koniving, 24 October 2014 - 02:02 PM.

#112 Koniving

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Posted 24 October 2014 - 05:53 PM

And so, playing Phoenix and Resistance against Clan within MWO's limitations (No melee, no DFA, just straight out shoot 'em up)... the results were not surprising.

This first round had a few unfortunate things happen early on. For example the Panther tried to jump on a building and it collapsed. Mechs unable to make firing exchanges for a few turns.

Camos used:
Liao force of Phoenix and Resistance mechs: Marcellas Armored Infantry (Saint Ives planet-specific paint).
The elites Zeus and Battlemaster: Capellan Confederation Second Defense Force
(Both Kon and Lordred's units followed this scheme).

Clan Unit: Blood Guard Keshik
Commander (elite) skin: Omega Galaxy

The first 20 seconds.
Spoiler


20 to 40 seconds.
Spoiler


4o to 60 seconds in.
Spoiler

Headshot! (spoiler above)

From 60 to 80 seconds in.
Spoiler


I'd really dramatize it, but standard tabletop is very straight forward. Though I gotta say; that Thunderbolt pilot ejected right into a building, crushing the pod and dying. :(

Tomorrow we'll have the same battle on River City with all the rules enabled.

Edited by Koniving, 24 October 2014 - 06:01 PM.

#113 Koniving

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Posted 25 October 2014 - 02:03 PM

So I've been tinkering with Megamek HQ to create scenarios, then play them out. Using this to create a sort of fluff-story for Zhizhu, I was able to complete my first scenario with interesting results.

Here's a sample page of the briefing, summary and some of the events of the day after.
Posted Image

What I'm particularly proud of is that I got Princess (the name Megamek gives its bot) to play non-combat units and was even able to assign them (had to use 3 bots) very basic patrol routes following the streets. This gave me pedestrians, cars, flatbed trucks, whose courage was set to kinda low with a desire to escape. This is only meant to occur, however, when a security mech gets too close. (Traveling through a street full of traffic, stomping by the drivethru at a fast food joint, etc). Quite a few tires got blown and a number of wipe-outs occurred.

Edited by Koniving, 26 October 2014 - 03:43 AM.

#114 Danghen Woolf

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 12:18 PM

View PostKoniving, on 25 October 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

So I've been tinkering with Megamek HQ to create scenarios, then play them out. Using this to create a sort of fluff-story for Zhizhu, I was able to complete my first scenario with interesting results.

Here's a sample page of the briefing, summary and some of the events of the day after.
Posted Image

What I'm particularly proud of is that I got Princess (the name Megamek gives its bot) to play non-combat units and was even able to assign them (had to use 3 bots) very basic patrol routes following the streets. This gave me pedestrians, cars, flatbed trucks, whose courage was set to kinda low with a desire to escape. This is only meant to occur, however, when a security mech gets too close. (Traveling through a street full of traffic, stomping by the drivethru at a fast food joint, etc). Quite a few tires got blown and a number of wipe-outs occurred.


If you download the Dylan version of MekHQ (0.3.6 r-1993) it has the Against the Bot (AtB) rules you can use. It is pretty good at building scenarios, a bit unintuitive for deploying (automatic) my scout lance of poorly maintained mechs versus four lances of hovertanks in pitch-black, torrential rain conditions... needing 4MP to move 1 hex is not great when hovertanks are zooming around ignoring terrain modifiers... My 1vs 1 against a DC Commander was good though: DC AWS-8Q (3/5) vs. Merc RFL-3N (5/5) both dropped in the same turn to leg damage.

#115 Koniving

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 01:08 PM

Thank you. Currently using an assortment of bots with different preset personalities and priorities is about the limit I've got short of playing with other Zhizhu members currently. Though most times that in itself is enough. Nothing like getting sandwiched by 3 King Crabs in a triangle, blasting the crap out of you until the only thing left is 1 hitpoint of internal structure on the CT, and everything else completely obliterated both in parts and in crits.

Though if it's got some really good options for the AI, I'll definitely take it up. Since the planned scenario is briefly police related with civilian obstacles and some criminal/insurgent elements, having less generic AI would be really nice.

Also a good test of the Nin Kei (Obligatory Punishment) line of SecurityMechs I've created.

#116 Koniving

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 01:18 PM

On a semi-related but different side note... (this is not the Nin Kei)... I can validate and save this with no issue, but the Vehicular Grenade Launcher keeps getting deleted in Megamek itself. This is starting to leave me at the need to create my own weapon(s).
Posted Image
So I know it is possible, the question is how to create it and its rules in Megamek?
Specifically I just want a anti-personnel grenade launcher that I can load different kinds of rounds into (for either 0.5 or 0.25 ton ammo allotments) for things such as tear gas. It is a police securitymech after all.

And this is one of the many Nin Kei securitymech models.
Posted Image
Bipedal, chickenwalker, endo steel makes it bulky for its weight. Caterpillar tracks in the legs allow it to pull the Robot Jox maneuver when a leg actuator is crippled.

#117 Nathan Foxbane

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:08 AM

The problem with VGLs are they are one-shot weapons. You will need more than one if you want a variety of munitions. An SRM-2 would be a more versatile weapon. Use Tear Gas ammo for crowd control. I see you found the Fluid Sprayers. Fluid Guns would be a more robust, militarized version which would probably work better on a security platform (keeps it out of range of thrown Molotov Cocktails). Does Nin Kei have environmental sealing or does the pilot have to wear a gas mask (10% of you mass hurts)? And why is the jump jet in the cockpit, and is that even legal? Hope you did not allocate weight to the Searchlight, the first one is free in weight, crits, or C-bills.

Edited by Nathan Foxbane, 06 November 2014 - 09:10 AM.

#118 Koniving

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 09:14 AM

See, I found the VGL had different types of ammo for half a ton; but the game won't register them to put on the mech.
Think there's 6 different types of ammo.

I have temporarily resorted to an SRM-2 with smoke ammo for now.

The first searchlight has weight; no way to change the rules there.
Also JJs simply exist. Much like how an Atlas K has an LRM 20 in the left chest, but 10 tubes left and 10 tubes right, or the Behemoth has twin Gauss Rifles....one in each side torso... that feed through the barrel on a turret mounted on the CT.
Just where you choose the slot is basically where it winds up. Given the design, it's a torso mounted cockpit anyway. With no slots available in the CT, there isn't any other way to center-mount it.

It lacks environmental sealing, but it's not sporting tear gas like the other security mech.

Edited by Koniving, 06 November 2014 - 09:22 AM.

#119 Nathan Foxbane

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 07:46 PM

View PostKoniving, on 06 November 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

See, I found the VGL had different types of ammo for half a ton; but the game won't register them to put on the mech.
Think there's 6 different types of ammo.

I have temporarily resorted to an SRM-2 with smoke ammo for now.

The first searchlight has weight; no way to change the rules there.
Also JJs simply exist. Much like how an Atlas K has an LRM 20 in the left chest, but 10 tubes left and 10 tubes right, or the Behemoth has twin Gauss Rifles....one in each side torso... that feed through the barrel on a turret mounted on the CT.
Just where you choose the slot is basically where it winds up. Given the design, it's a torso mounted cockpit anyway. With no slots available in the CT, there isn't any other way to center-mount it.

It lacks environmental sealing, but it's not sporting tear gas like the other security mech.

Ah didn't see the XL gyro. Expensive little thing maintenance wise. Pity they coded the search light that way, but I can understand as it makes it much less painful not having to code in the exception.

I like the SMtemp. Reads a bit like a patrol unit instead of a SWAT unit.

#120 Koniving

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Posted 06 November 2014 - 08:11 PM

View PostNathan Foxbane, on 06 November 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

Ah didn't see the XL gyro. Expensive little thing maintenance wise. Pity they coded the search light that way, but I can understand as it makes it much less painful not having to code in the exception.

I like the SMtemp. Reads a bit like a patrol unit instead of a SWAT unit.

That was the idea, it's meant to be a patrol unit; regular police duty involving things such as cases of drunken loadermech pilots, as well as any sort of incidents involving agricultural / industrial mechs. Much like a Patrol Labor from PatLabor (you might notice in the campaign, the pilot names of two of the pilots and even the corresponding incidents reflect a Patlabor influence too).

The Nin Kei are much more dedicated units.
Though there's a few 01 variants planned, here are the 02 models (built for high speed chases).
The 02 (standard) is still powered by a fuel cell battery that is amplified by a Supercharger. Reaches 81 (MWO) / 86 (BT) with the supercharger engaged. Little over a hundred when combining sprint rules with supercharger.
Posted Image
It sports CASE to protect against ammo detonation issues. Lost the tracks to fit the supercharger, lost the turret, JJ and the 'sticky' sprayer for an SRM launcher as well as a standard gyro. Still, a single heatsink means that heat can build up, if it reaches 5 heat unsunken at the end of a turn, there's a roll to check for heatsink overtaxing, in which case the heatsink will melt and the mech will eventually become an oven that must be abandoned.

Obviously it's meant to have issues.

This is the 02b, which is meant to be a significant improvement. 113 kph MWO (not sure what the speed would be in BT now) without even resorting to sprinting.
Maintains the original legs so it can convert to track-driving if something happens to a leg actuator. The conversion to a standard Fusion engine managed to make a lot of things much easier on the unit. It can almost never overheat except via engine damage.

Posted Image

It still doesn't regain the turret, and furthermore this time it has also lost the pelvis in favor of a twist-less design. The idea is that a design without torso twist would be a lot easier to manage in terms of balance and making turns on asphalt at high speed. The price got reduced quite a bit, too. Obviously the use of Battletech's mech quirk system is employed by my designs.
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