56 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

Greetings Mechwarriors!

Let's collect all the ideas and expectations for the differences between Factions and what kind of effects CW (and loyality) would have for you and your house/faction.

1.) Would you expect/want to have a noticable difference if you choose Davion over Liao?
What would that be?

2.) If your faction conquered a big part of the Inner Sphere, what would you expect/want the effects to be?


SHORT Example:
Playing Liao would give you a discount of 10-30% to any "-L" mech variant.
Bonus/Discount amount is dependent on Loyality points.
Bonus/Discount amount is dependent on conquered planets.

Playing as Davion, conquering a Planet with a factory of Liao Mechs would give you x% of the same effect (like 10% less for -L variants) for each mech type created in this factory.

This is just an example to get this discussion started.

My expectation/wish with numbers and detailed examples.

Spoiler

IF we will have R&R in CW mode, I would want it like this:

Faction specific variants and weapons would have 20% reduced price, repair and customization cost. Includes modules (like weapon modules).
Gaining higher reputation (loyalty points) the % would rise further.
Gaining higher reputation would also increase income from contracts (for mercs) or defending the borders (for house and lonewolfes).

In addition (example numbers) each house has a base bonus to certain technology (not variant dependent):
Steiner would have 5% better prices for the black market (all off-house items) and 15% for assault mechs
Davion would have 10% better prices for medium and heavy mechs, 15% for ACs
Liao would have 10% better prices for light and heavy mechs, 15% for Equipment (ECM, BAP, TAG), LRMs
Marik would have 15% better prices for heavy mechs and 20% for Laser
Kurita would have 10% better prices for light, medium and heavy mechs and 10% for PPCs
FRR would have 15% better prices for medium mechs and 15% for SRMs and Airstrikes

Note:
Mech discounts are for the chassis without any equipment only.
Variant discounts count for the complete stock mech variant. (Additional/changed weapons will not be affected after purchase by this bonus)


Advancing on the borders would slightly alter the % (1% per planet).
Certain planets (behind borders) which can be invaded by mercenaries can gain extra effects like
- variant XYZ bonus
- certain weapon or equipment types get cheaper
- transport cost (for starsystem with a space station or space dock) reduced




For example:

You are a Steiner pilot and you want to buy a new mech.
You would have 15% off for any assault mech and 5% off for anything else.
You decide to buy an 80 ton Zeus Steiner assault mech and would gain the 15% Steiner assault mech discount plus the 20% Steiner-Variant discount for a total of 35% off.
Now your friends conquered 10 planets in the last month and slaughtered many innocent evil kurita pilots.
These 10 planets give you additional 10% off for any transaction and you will pay only 45% of the original price for your 80t Zeus assault mech.

In addition you hold a planet with a space station that grants you 20% less travel costs and a planet with a factory for PPCs that grants you 20% reduced cost for PPCs and their repair and customization costs.
You will equip your Zeus with a brand new PPC for 25% off the price (5% black market Steiner bonus + 20% planetary bonus).

After a battle you can repair your PPC for 25% less again.
The chassis (Internals and armor) will be 45% off (like when you bought the mech), but the equiped AC will only be 5% off, as it is a Davion weapon and you only get the blackmarket Steiner bonus.

After reaching the next loyality rank, the bonus of each Steiner bonus is increased by 10%.
- Steiner Blackmarket bonus 5% base + 0.5% (additional 10% of the 5% base) ( for non-Steiner equipment. not added to the total for a Steiner variant)
- Steiner Assault bonus of 15% base + 1.5% (10% of 15%)
- Steiner Variant bonus of 20% base + 2.0% (10% of 25%)
- 10 planet bonus of 10% total (no loyalty bonus)
Total: 45% + 3.5% = 48.5% (for steiner assault variants)


Quick timewarp to the future:
You rised to loyalty rank 5 (max) with house Steiner and helped conquer 30 planets from Clan Jade Falcon and gained the Rank of Duke of the Isle of Sky.
- Steiner Blackmarket bonus 5% base + 2.5% (5 level for 10% each = 50% extra) =7.5% ( for non-Steiner equipment. not added to the total for a Steiner variant)
- Steiner Assault bonus of 15% base + 7.5% (5x 1.5%) = 22.5%
- Steiner Variant bonus of 20% base + 10% (5x 2%) = 30%
- 30 planet bonus of 30% total (no loyalty bonus)
Total: 65% + 17.5% = 82.5% discount for Steiner assault variants

And as a Duke, your bonus is calculated as if your loyalty level would be one level higher (max +1) = level 6.
(I see this as the maximum for a player to reach)
- Steiner Blackmarket bonus 5% base + 3% (6 level for 10% each = 50% extra) =7.5% ( for non-Steiner equipment. not added to the total for a Steiner variant)
- Steiner Assault bonus of 15% base + 9% (6x 1.5%) = 24%
- Steiner Variant bonus of 20% base + 12% (6x 2%) = 32%
- 30 planet bonus of 30% total (no loyalty bonus)
Total: 65% + 21% = 86% discount for Steiner assault variants

for any assault mech: 24% (assault) +30% (planets) = 54%
for any steiner non-assault mech variant: 32% (variant) + 30% (planets) = 62%
for any non-assault and non-steiner variant: 8% (black market) + 30% (planets) = 38%

Edit: 2014-06-19
Added dropship mode with repair and rearm examples.

Spoiler

I could see something added like this:

To fight for a planet, you would start a "campaign" or "invasion".
This would be a series of fights that would need to be completed to a certain degree (say 10 battles in a timeframe of 1 day).

You would need to bring X mechs per player (up to 8 dropship slots were mentioned in one of the CC posts about CW).
You would have certain contract or campaign variables including:
- income per battle
- % of lost structure/ammo/armor repaired by contractor
- price for repair and rearm depending on standing to the contractor (see Faction/House bonus above)
Between the battles, you would then get % of the repairs for each round (a round= battle the mech is not used) and can speed up remaining repair and rearm with your CBills.
Repair and Rearm might be limited to certain maximum per round.

Example:
Say, your Atlas got destroyed (Status is 20% total) and the contractor repairs 20% of the mech for free for each round ( battle this mech is not used) and you could repair up to 50% extra per round.
This would make sure you always have something to fight in, even with only basic repairs done, if you don't have many mechs, Dropship slots, or not enough Cbills to repair (because you lost too often).

You decide to bring a Victor for the second battle and pay for maximum available repair from your own or your units CBill bank.
After the second battle, the Atlas (from 20%) will get 20% repaired by the contractor to bring the Atlas structure, armor and ammo up to 40% status.
You decide to also repair the full additional 50% by yourself to a maximum of 90% armor, ammo and structure values.
You can now decide if you want to spend another round for repair, or take the Atlas with 90% repair into the 3rd battle and repair your Victor, or take any other mech from your Dropship slots.

Edit 2014-09-12: Added graphic for Mech tree

Edited by Reno Blade, 12 September 2014 - 09:30 AM.

[Mott]

With Clans arriving before CW... i don't know how we can really plan for anything.

I think CW is just going to be a massive, confusing clustermuck.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Why I wouldn't use the term clustermuck (because I'm civilized (kidding)... I do agree with the above poster. I don't think we can have any real expectation about what CW is going to be.

For money reasons I think PGI put the cart before the horse and really screwed itself on potential revenue. I think the "next big project" ... and I loathe this but in this one instance I really, really believe that they SHOULD have made CW the priority and then IMMEDIATELY put the Clans on sale with a year or half a year wait time.

I think this would've gotten interest in the product, given people things to fight for (along with the lobby system they just now brought out) and would give reasons to be excited for and really want to see what they were going to do with the Clans actually invading instead of being a mixed portion of the nonexistent IS row that we have currently.

I try to be kind towards PGI but I truly feel this is one area where the marketing side really f'ed things up with the engineering side being really blind towards even having an expectation of CW (uh, speaking of can we get an update on even the design of CW?)

[Karl Streiger]

They have said something similar in a dev log long long time ago.
You should still be able to "get" everything but you get discounts for items.

But the problem with that - it really really would need a second queue. You don't need "discounts" for Battlemasters or Atlas if you have them already in your hangar. So if you add such discounts or "negative" expensive ratings (for example PPCs for Mariks), then i fear for the "new players" the "c-bill" income reduction also hit for the bigger part newbs and players that only played the game less frequent - those that have played intensive from OpenBeta till the nerf had already billions of c-bill so that the "income" nerf didn't hit them at all (same for the consumables)

[shellashock]

My guess is that it would be like you detailed. You conquer planets, you get a discount of something or maybe get a bonus on you selling stuff. If we are really lucky, we might even see some manufacturing where if you conquer a planet, you can harvest resources and build equipment to sell on the market (all passive of course). That is probably PGI's stretch goal if they even have one for CW. Unfortunately, they seem to be cutting their schedule so thin for CW that the first version will likely just be a glorified leader board with a map of the Inner Sphere. A guy can dream though...

[NextGame]

Just some random thoughts

1) Bring back repair and rearm for CW
2) Associate mech chassis/variants with different factions as lore appropriate. Attempt to balance available mech variants/sizes amongst the factions
3) Expensive, in some cases prohibitive repair/rearm for exotic mechs when used by players while in some factions, with different tiers depending on how exotic the mech is to that faction.
4) Have a higher risk/reward mechanic for merc & lone wolf factions
5) go ahead and add st ives, clans, comstar etc as factions
6) make the cost of switching faction variable based/in some cases impossible based on population balance. Maybe for example Davion could be over subscribed but you might be given x cbills or equipment or even a mech for joining Liao.
7) Make population balance caps lower for some the smaller factions
8) Force users to reselect a faction every x days in order to promote faction movement and balance
9) Have a worthwhile advantage to playing each of the factions.
10) Remove cbill gain from public play and make exclusive to CW, allow XP gain to continue as normal outside CW
11) Got bored writing this as there will never be enough maps in MWO to facilitate community warfare properly.

Edited by NextGame, 02 June 2014 - 04:51 AM.

[TKSax]

Anything said about CW in the past can always be dismissed as "That was our position at the time".

CW is probably going to be a dissapointment, probably just a big map, that moves when you win or lose playing for a faction, besides that its going to be just like the current que. I hope I am wrong but....

[Vezm]

I'd like to see organised battles in CW. I envision a company loading up some drop ships with the mechs they want to bring to the fight and heading off to fight at the front, only swapping between mechs that are loaded up. R&R would into effect, only being able to repair when you can get to a repair bay or mechlab in friendly territory, with costs being lower if occupied by your own faction.

Similarly as to give clans a more clan-ey feel, they would be able to re-configure their mechs between battles much more easily where as IS mechs would need a massive overhaul to change a build, maybe finding a mechlab or factory if occupied territory that is able to work on that particular variant. However since clan mechs will be roughly balanced to IS mechs this may hamstring IS pilots too much and this is an online game now a story about the clans rofling their way into the IS.

In reality I fear a lack of depth due to a lack of player base and small development team.

[Escef]

NextGame, on 02 June 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

1) Bring back repair and rearm for CW
3) Expensive, in some cases prohibitive repair/rearm for exotic mechs when used by players while in some factions, with different tiers depending on how exotic the mech is to that faction.

As much as I dislike most of your ideas, I'm going to limit myself to these 2. Repair/rearm cost in CW I would be fine with, so long as it was limited to affecting faction scores. If a Kurita force loses12-10 to Steiner, but Steiner was all heavy and assault while the Kurita force topped at 60 ton mechs, I'd be all over the idea of Steiner getting a smaller point gain for the battle due to repair/rearm. But the idea of prohibitive repair/rearm is a big no-go. It was bad for the game. It's why it was dropped during open Beta. And while it might be flavorful, it's annoying and adds nothing good to the gaming experience.

[Reno Blade]

Thanks for your inputs so far.

And if some of you who say there is nothing to expect, then state what you would WANT it to be.
I used "expect/want" for this reason.

See NextGame, he did it right.

Expectation: R&R comeback and all the effects of CW and R&R play together.

Now there is a high probability that R&R might not come back ever.
What do we expect from factions and CW then?
We would have not much left besides discounts on buying stuff, but as described, if you own 70+ mechs, it doesn't affect you anymore.

[LordKnightFandragon]

TKSax, on 02 June 2014 - 04:41 AM, said:

Anything said about CW in the past can always be dismissed as "That was our position at the time".

CW is probably going to be a dissapointment, probably just a big map, that moves when you win or lose playing for a faction, besides that its going to be just like the current que. I hope I am wrong but....

instead of several planets on the IS, and we as the players get to choose which planet we wanna invade?

then, looking at a massive galaxy image of the IS, we see the planets and each house/faction/clan's influence on the planet.

Each planet would have a massive capital city map along with a series of other maps that, based on the outcome, determine the progress made...idk exactly what im thinking off.....but maybe something like Planetside 2's lattice...

Where each faction chooses a spot to set up their initial invasion zone, Normandy for example. then, there are a series of lattice linked battlefields that must be won before being able to finally invade the capital city, lets say it was Berlin. And as the factions fight each other, win, lose, it pushes progress towards the capital forward and backwards...always an ebbing and flowing battlefield....

And so we cant just magically teleport around the IS, once we choose a planet to be on, we, as individual players are not allowed to leave for like 72hrs real time...or a week..idk, to simulate not just loading up and leaving at will...taking time to set up invasion plans and crap.

so if were on a losing planet...derp.....guess we just die alot...idk.

Idk, this idea is just randomly popping in my head now, as I read this thread...

[Mott]

Reno Blade, on 02 June 2014 - 05:10 AM, said:

And if some of you who say there is nothing to expect, then state what you would WANT it to be.
I used "expect/want" for this reason.

See NextGame, he did it right.

FINE!

I would expect:

- at least 350% more maps
- those maps to be lore correct/important
- real qualitative and quantitative benefits and penalties for choosing certain factions
- real qualitative and quantitative rewards for winning battles
- real qualitative and quantitative penalties for losing battles (this is where the wimpy player base will QQ, because we've got 2 generations that were raised to be incapable of coping with "losing")
- NPC heros/champions/villians
- An IS newsfeed with real actors recapping the week's major skirmishes, battles and political shifts
- Both passive and active revenue streams for all units
- Shared assets/equipment among your group

One could go on forever....

Edited by Mott, 02 June 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Mott, on 02 June 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

...
- real qualitative and quantitative benefits and penalties for choosing certain factions
- real qualitative and quantitative rewards for winning battles
- real qualitative and quantitative penalties for losing battles (this is where the wimpy player base will QQ, because we've got 2 generations that were raised to be incapable of coping with "losing")

- Both passive and active revenue streams for all units
- Shared assets/equipment among your group

One could go on forever....

Could you go into details for the quoted points?
I would say these are the things I'm looking for in this thread specifically.

What kind of benefits, penalties for factions and what kind of rewards for invading and conquering planets (doing CW battles. wins and losses).

[El Bandito]

Reno Blade, on 02 June 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

Greetings Mechwarriors! Let's collect all the ideas and expectations for the differences between Factions and what kind of effects CW (and loyality) would have for you and your house/faction. 1.) Would you expect/want to have a noticable difference if you choose Davion over Liao? What would that be? 2.) If your faction conquered a big part of the Inner Sphere, what would you expect/want the effects to be?

In my CW wish list, once I choose Marik, I want to be able to further align to one of the bigger powers in Marik space, such as Duchy of Oriente, Duchy of Andurien and Principality of Regulus. Each power has the ability to secede or to try to takeover the FLW if so chooses. And then I want participate in an honest to god Marik Civil War with Marik groups vying for power. Killing fellow Mariks gives me more rush than facing the weak Liaos or the merchant Steiners.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 June 2014 - 06:03 AM.

[Agent of Change]

What I want based on the game I expected when I bought a founders pack as described by PGI:

- A functional Mech combat Simulator in the BT universe
- Knockdowns and collisions
- Good weapon balance
- multiple viable and essential roles to play on the battle field ensuring team work would be king and then a variety would be unnecessary
- Factions with perks and negatives as related to their lore in the BT universe.
- A dynamic community driven story where planets and systems are fought over and change hands in a 1 to 1 progression along the lines of the BT timeline. Where your success and failure directly reflected in your c-bill account and reputation.
- A sudden and shocking introduction of clans like in the form of an actual dramatic invasion per BT lore.

What I largely expect now:

- A buggy incompetently release half-assed product likely rushed out the door to make way for more monetized content.
- Almost nothing from my first list.

I don't want to be a downer but if PGI can't handle simple weight drop limits and MM after 2 years a community warfare that is anything but disappointing is a real long shot. I hold out hope for a miracle but I lack faith in the developers.

[Reno Blade]

Agent of Change, on 02 June 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

What I want based on the game I expected when I bought a founders pack as described by PGI:
...

Wrong thread then.

This thread is about:
What kind of benefits, penalties for factions and what kind of rewards for invading and conquering planets (doing CW battles. wins and losses).

[Fishhawk]

1.) I like the idea of the return of R&R. However, they would need to increase the cBill payout. So that's not going to happen. I don't play a lot, but I have about 20 mechs. I would say that's a low amount compared to most current players. So, if I can't afford R&R on one mech, I have 19 others to choose from. If I go through 20 mechs and can't repair a single one. i can sell one to pay to repair them. I'd say R&R isn't feasible for new players, but they could figure out when R&R becomes important. Maybe for just the losing side of the battle?

2.) I want to play for something. It's fine and good to have my epeen stroked after a good win/good performance, but I want to play for a REASON. Planets, Mechs, Parts, etc... Give me something to play for. Right now I play about 10 games a month. Maybe. Because I have no real reason to play. Give me a reason.

3.) Make factions/clans unique and important. We have a lot of Lone Wolves out there. Make a faction or clan something people want to participate in. Mech discounts, unique modules, unique weapons, cheaper weapons, etc..

Edited by Fishhawk, 02 June 2014 - 06:53 AM.

[Innocent]

I want to see variable risk/reward scenarios.

• Lowest would be what we have now. No risk and minimal reward. This would provide community warfare for the casual player to jump in a few games when they can. It would affect some low reward sections of a map with little impact on pricing/availability of equipment.
  
• For more organized play a higher risk/reward game mode. Repair and rearm would be limited to armor, weapons, and other equipment. Payouts would be higher and include salvaged equipment (not mechs). Battles would determine ownership of low value worlds. I envision this as three 4 man teams per side.
  
• Top end would be full salvage/repair and rearm. A destroyed mech is lost but mechs can be salvaged. Dropships would be required and only the equipment transported to the battlefield would be available. Repair would take time so that you would not be able to drop in the same thing multiple battles in a row. Battles would be scheduled and only full teams could participate. Outcomes would determine ownership of high value worlds. Winners would get significant rewards and factions would gain access to valuable resources.

This would only work if mechs, equipment, and ammo is rationed. The player would have to have a dropship or pay transport costs to move between worlds. They would only be able to purchase what is available at their location. If you end a battle and lost an ERPPC and none is available there and you didn't bring a spare then it cannot be rearmed. If you run out of LRM ammo and the world does not have access then you are out of luck. Drop ships would limit the number of mechs and tons of equipment that can be loaded.

This would provide something for casuals and the hardcore.

[Fishhawk]

Innocent, on 02 June 2014 - 06:57 AM, said:

...
This would provide something for casuals and the hardcore.

I really like those suggestions. I could see where middle and top tiers would be for more organized play (ie. Premium Time).

[Trauglodyte]

My expectations for the game consist of the continuing and extremely slow balancing changes to weapons that don't actually balance them followed by the same maps over and over again with the same boring game modes and lack luster end game rewards. So, more of the same. Yay us!