114 replies to this topic

[Ozric]

EyeOne, on 05 June 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

But it's fun as hell. And it's not a good comparison anyway. Too slow, no JJs, doesn't use Clan weapons and so forth. Let's just wait and see k?

Also too light and the guns are on the wrong arms.

Edited by Ozric, 05 June 2014 - 04:25 PM.

[Sephlock]

Kyle Wright, on 05 June 2014 - 04:23 PM, said:

I wont lie, the Maddog i would probably cave into buying for real money.

Only because of this video.

I gotta say, the Mad dog does NOT fare well in Mechwarrior cinematics...

In MW2 there is one broken and smashed on the ground, in MW2: GBL one gets squished by a Kodiak.... in the ending to MW2: Mercs one gets pwnt by multiple assault mechs, in MW3 one gets legged (or nearly so) and has at least 1 arm pretty badly damaged, in MW4 you have those shenanigans...

[1453 R]

Unfortunately, the Summoner suffers quite a bit from its fixed standard-type structure. This means it loses 3.5 tons of equipment/armor/pod space relative to the Timber Wolf, without the benefit of reduced repair costs that structure gave it in TT. It’s not as bad off as the Nova (double standard construction…poor Nova…), but it does leave the Summoner in something of an awkward spot.

A lot will depend on the hitboxes, and as noted on how/if the Timber Wolf S transfers over its jump capacity. The way I understand it, the most likely scenario is that each given omnipod in the S-configuration will have a set number of jump jet slots it gives to the ‘Mech the Omnipod is in; i.e. you would need to use the omnipods that actually contain the Timber Wolf S’s jump jets in order to get those jump jet slots. I have no idea where those are, but it makes sense to me.

Insofar as a direct fight between the two, and discounting good/bad hitboxes for either design, the Summoner is in something of a bad spot. It has a very low hardpoint count in all configurations which rather limits its flexibility, and it carries noticeably less weight of gun than the Timber Wolf does. However, the double-AMS option does give the thing a solid niche as a missile defense platform, and it’s also entirely likely that the Summoner will have a set of mobility-enhancing quirks to help offset its disadvantageous hardpoints and fixed standard structure. It was always supposed to be a very agile BattleMech – I would be shocked if PGI didn’t try to emphasize its handling and maneuverability. Expect (read: hope for) to see a wider torso twist range than the Timber Wolf, as well as better twist and turn speeds to boot.

Will it be enough to overcome the Timber Wolf’s decidedly superior armament? We’ll have to see, I suppose – though the T-Wolf also loses a good chunk of that armament if it tries to match the Summoner’s jump jets, so there’s always that, I suppose.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Hitboxes.

Mad Cats will be dead mechs walking. Thors will probably have far more robust hitboxes, and could well see some agility quirks that give them a maneuver edge over their heavier competitors.

[Creovex]

Summoner hands down. The jump jets, speed and weapons can really push enemies to the limit at all ranges. The Timberwolf has and always will be second rate to this in my eyes..... Watching a catapult's missle bays get blown off already shows me that the TimberWolf will get rolled easier than my bad ass thor.

[Keeshu]

I can't wait to see Timber Wolf and Summoner (and Mad Dog) in game to see how they work. Let's hope the balance is good. Though if they get the Indivudal mech perk system going, that'll help balance all the mechs a ton.

Sephlock, on 05 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

I gotta say, the Mad dog does NOT fare well in Mechwarrior cinematics...

In MW2 there is one broken and smashed on the ground, in MW2: GBL one gets squished by a Kodiak.... in the ending to MW2: Mercs one gets pwnt by multiple assault mechs, in MW3 one gets legged (or nearly so) and has at least 1 arm pretty badly damaged, in MW4 you have those shenanigans...

It's probably because it was based off the Timber Wolf, so it's a "weaker" Timber Wolf.
Though, thinking back to MW2's intro, both Timber Wolves were destroied, and in Mech Commander it's the only mech that dies. To their credit they don't die in one shot (excluding the already injured Timber Wolf in the MW2 intro).

[SgtMagor]

just wanted to clear something up, Does the Summoner have 360 torso twist in MWO?

[Thejuggla]

I wasn't expecting JJ on the timberwolf(Actually didn't know there was a variant that carried JJ so even more surprised) I am almost sad because with swapping the layout we'll see metacats running around with dual ppc and uacs. It also leaves the thor in an awkward spot because it is very similar speed and can do JJs with more hardpoints, and as others mentioned thor is std structure.

[General Taskeen]

LordKnightFandragon, on 05 June 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

The Urbanmech....isnt it a light with an autocannon on it? Little armor, no speed, big as a house........why the fascination with this thing? You couldnt get me to drive it if you gave me 5000MC to do it...

The UrbanMech is actually really small. And its purpose is literally just urban city defense. Suddenly ambushing from an alleyway with a powerful Imperator-B Autocannon/10, and quickly jumping into the next alleyway or behind a building. A small, mobile turret. Hence its name. Meanwhile the Urban 'Mech just reported the enemies position to an Hunchback-4G and a second Urban 'Mech hidden around the corner.

[MalodorousMonkey]

People keep talking about jumpjets on the Thor, but if PGI follows the variant configs on sarna, the MadCat S will have jumpjets as well. Still, not sure that I can say which I think will be better, since I haven't gotten a chance to play either in the game yet. Though, I know that I've always liked the look of the madcat.

Edited by MalodorousMonkey, 05 June 2014 - 05:32 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

SmilingElf, on 05 June 2014 - 02:45 PM, said:

So, I broke down and bought the Summoner, on the basis of "Hey, Heavy with Jumpjets!" The Timberwolf had 5 tons and an upgrade on it, but I enjoy the maneuverability of JJs.

Recently went through the variants listed for release, and discovered that the Timberwolf will be coming with a variant with JJs, four out of 5 (4/5) of which will be transferable using OmniPods. After looking over the 3050TRO, I'm wondering where the Summoner can actually shine versus the Timberwolf. From what I'm seeing the TW has 2.5 tons more armor, and comparable, if not slightly better, pod space after the weight adjustment for JJs. The Summoner does have the option of double AMS, and JJs standard on all models, but with OmniPods, that means substantially less.

So, for those of you out there more familiar with ClanTech than I, how do the two chasis actually compare? As always, thank you for your insight.

this won't be answered til we see 2 things: Hitboxes and Agility stats. Those 2 features can do more to make or break a mech than all the weapons and armor in the game.

Any commentary and insight before that is purely blue sky mining. If those features are comparable between the chassis, the Summoner will indeed have a hard road to travel.

[Keeshu]

MalodorousMonkey, on 05 June 2014 - 05:32 PM, said:

People keep talking about jumpjets on the Thor, but if PGI follows the variant configs on sarna, the MadCat S will have jumpjets as well. Still, not sure that I can say which I think will be better, since I haven't gotten a chance to play either in the game yet. Though, I know that I've always liked the look of the madcat.

I think the fact that the Timber Wolf S has Jumpjets is the whole reason why this thread got brought up. Since Timber Wolf is usually viewed as a mech that does not have Jumpjets. In Mechwarrior 4 (and some other Mechwarrior games that I don't feel like looking up) it couldn't even equip jumpjets. So a lot of people assumed the balancing factor would be that Summoner uses Jumpjets, while Timber Wolf is just has slightly more Armor/Firepower. Now they both can jumpjet, which removes one of the largest balancing factors between the two.

Of course we still have hitboxes and stuff to mess with. We'll just have to see how it all turns out when they get in game.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Keeshu, on 05 June 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

I think the fact that the Timber Wolf S has Jumpjets is the whole reason why this thread got brought up. Since Timber Wolf is usually viewed as a mech that does not have Jumpjets. In Mechwarrior 4 (and some other Mechwarrior games that I don't feel like looking up) it couldn't even equip jumpjets. So a lot of people assumed the balancing factor would be that Summoner uses Jumpjets, while Timber Wolf is just has slightly more Armor/Firepower. Now they both can jumpjet, which removes one of the largest balancing factors between the two.

Of course we still have hitboxes and stuff to mess with. We'll just have to see how it all turns out when they get in game.

Don't forget the Summoner is stuck with 5 hardwired JJs, 4 more than necessary. While the Timberwolf S JJs are omni equipped, meaning you can equip only the 1 you need, saving you those 4 tons.

[Bishop Steiner]

JohanssenJr, on 05 June 2014 - 05:52 PM, said:

Don't forget the Summoner is stuck with 5 hardwired JJs, 4 more than necessary. While the Timberwolf S JJs are omni equipped, meaning you can equip only the 1 you need, saving you those 4 tons.

4 more than necessary for what? Poptarting bro? Some of us squeeze every bit of thrust out of those things, and when brawling, it also means a deeper thrust bottle before you are drained, so more, smaller jumps.

Keeshu, on 05 June 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Of course we still have hitboxes and stuff to mess with. We'll just have to see how it all turns out when they get in game.

that will be the deciding issue. Without that, all the speculation in the world is pointless.

[1453 R]

May be useless, but it's still a mildly entertaining diversion when one's bored, ne?

besides, what else can we do with the Clans at this point?

[Azalie]

Aiden Pryde didn't take out a company of Comstar/Comguard mechs until he was forced to pilot a Timberwolf. Obviously superior.

[El Bandito]

Azalie, on 05 June 2014 - 06:00 PM, said:

Aiden Pryde didn't take out a company of Comstar/Comguard mechs until he was forced to pilot a Timberwolf. Obviously superior.

Aidan became a warrior in a Summoner, beat 3 to 1 odds Trial of Refusal in a Summoner, got his Bloodname in a Summoner, turned around a most impossible battle to victory in his Summoner, saved his Commander's legacy in a Summoner, and conquered multiple IS worlds in a Summoner. When he was forced to pilot a Timberwolf, what happened?

HE DIED.



PS: Taking out a company of Comstar mechs in a Clan mech is easy dude. Even Diana found those IS mechs to be toy like.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 June 2014 - 06:30 PM.

[Sephlock]

El Bandito, on 05 June 2014 - 06:21 PM, said:

Aidan became a warrior in a Summoner, got his Bloodname in a Summoner, turned around a most impossible battle to victory in his Summoner, saved his Commander's legacy in a Summoner, and conquered multiple IS worlds in a Summoner. When he was forced to pilot a Timberwolf, what happened?

HE DIED.



PS: Taking out a company of Comstar mechs in a Clan mech is easy dude. Even Diana found those IS mechs to be toy like.

Didn't he also get shot in the back by his one true love in a Summoner ?

[Kyle Wright]

Sephlock, on 05 June 2014 - 04:28 PM, said:

I gotta say, the Mad dog does NOT fare well in Mechwarrior cinematics...

In MW2 there is one broken and smashed on the ground, in MW2: GBL one gets squished by a Kodiak.... in the ending to MW2: Mercs one gets pwnt by multiple assault mechs, in MW3 one gets legged (or nearly so) and has at least 1 arm pretty badly damaged, in MW4 you have those shenanigans...

Yeah, it's more of a Clan Support Mech like the Catapult. Just always liked how it looked. Can't argue with dual lrm 20s 2 lpls and 2mpls.

[TELEFORCE]

That Timber Wolf Aiden Pryde had was considered unlucky in his unit. He was the only one brave enough to pilot it! I bet he would've lived if he didn't total his last Summoner!

With that being said, I will enjoy both the Timber Wolf and the Summoner. I wouldn't doubt it if the Summoner had certain quirks, like an extra-wide torso twist, to make it more competitive with the Timber Wolf. Maybe Timber Wolf configurations with the S side torsos (since that's where the jump jets are) may reduce the Timber Wolf's torso twist and/or pitch.