210 replies to this topic

[Desintegrator]

After this great public test of Clan Mechs, its now time for everybody to buy a package and recieve the rewards !

[Henchman 24]

Shimmering Sword, on 13 June 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

I guess I can cut my entire defense of PGI down to:

"Learn the difference between actual lying, and changing plans based on reactions to problems and evolving needs. They are different things"

Every response I get seems to revert back to that fundamental misunderstanding. If a person can't make that critical separation of PGI's intent, no amount to debate will satisfy them.

Look at you go with all that logic and reason and such....what's next?? Sensibility? ;P

[Appogee]

So, I read through all the thread, including all the discussion about whether PGI's track record on content and delivery dates justified further purchasing of a Clan Pack. I was surprised that there's any argument about whether PGI has in the past been deliberately deceptive about its commitments on Community Warfare...

Guys, you only have to put together their own statements...

• All the prior commitments (listed here) made by Russ Bullock and Paul Inouye about the date for the launch of Community Warfare.
  
• Russ's statement on December 13 2013 about how securing the licence extension for the MechWarrior IP "gives PGI many of the assurances we were looking for to justify continuing to spend large amounts of development funds on the game".
  
• Paul's Inouye's statement on April 11 2014 that "The final phases of Community Warfare are going through design review and high level scope assessment. The general idea has been generally accepted and a few holes need to be patched here and there".

That final statement proves PGI hadn't even finished designing CW by April this year. So, even allowing for the grossest of incompetence in project planning, PGI must have been knowingly lying at the time they made the following statements.

• "...the depth of Community Warfare will be added, with the core of the community experience projected to be in-game within 90 days of open beta." Dev Update Jun 15, 2012
  
• "Sometime between this winter and next spring, Piranha plans to roll out Community Warfare, which will turn Mechwarrior Online into an intergalactic territory battle between as many as 10 Playable factions" Interview given to PC Gamer, December 2012
  
• "UI 2.0 is going to be late summer. It has to come in one shot. CW will come online in spurts from now until then." Paul Inouye Creative Director Update, April 03, 2013
  
• "Development is moving along nicely. The team has split in two, with about half of us working on features, and the other half working on delivering regular updates, bug fixes, content, and tuning. Through the summer work on UI 2.0 and Community Warfare will continue to dominate as we work towards launch and beyond." Paul Inouye, Creative Director Update, July 25, 2013
  
• "We need about 6 more months to roll (Community Warare) out. Right after UI 2.0 is delivered you'll get the first phase of CW" Bryan Eckman, Launch Party, September 2013

It's clear that the commitments made throughout 2012 and 2013 on Community Warfare release dates were deceptive ... most likely designed to keep pulling in Founder and then Phoenix funding. PGI had actually done nothing on Community Warfare prior to the licence extension in 2013, except have some relatively vague ideas which they shared in a recycled set of Powerpoint slides at the launch. We can deduce from their own statements that they had no intention of doing anything unless they got the licence renewal "to justify continuing to spend large amounts of development funds on the game".

How you respond to this - continue to spend money on MWO and believe that CW will be lauched soon™, or walk away - is up to you.

Personally, I bought the Masakari Pack, got my rewards, and that's the last cent I'm spending until CW is launched. Maybe I'm a "good guy" for "continuing to support the game". Or maybe I'm a "bad guy" for "enabling PGI". But either way, I'm not misled on the fact that PGI made commitments which they had no intention of honoring, nor made any attempt to honor.

Edited by Appogee, 14 June 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[Mawai]

Belorion, on 06 June 2014 - 01:21 PM, said:

I have stated on here before, there is no way I will buy the package without knowing when I will and won't be able to use the mechs. If they give me that information (couldn't take long to post that) then I will consider buying a package.

Otherwise, why buy something I can't use?

I'm not sure I understand. To the best of my knowledge all of your clan mechs will be available for you to use when they are injected on June 17th (they all certainly seemed to be there during the clan test on Thursday). In addition, they have already stated that everything will be dropping in mixed IS/clan matches. There is no splitting of clan vs IS or any other complexity like that at least until the introduction of community warfare which is supposed to be in, in some form, before the end of the year ... the current schedule says fall 2014.

So for at least 6 months you will be able to use whatever clan mechs you buy whenever you want to ...

[iHover]

NOPE. Drop me an email if you ever get CW off the ground.

[Belorion]

Mawai, on 14 June 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand. To the best of my knowledge all of your clan mechs will be available for you to use when they are injected on June 17th (they all certainly seemed to be there during the clan test on Thursday). In addition, they have already stated that everything will be dropping in mixed IS/clan matches. There is no splitting of clan vs IS or any other complexity like that at least until the introduction of community warfare which is supposed to be in, in some form, before the end of the year ... the current schedule says fall 2014.

So for at least 6 months you will be able to use whatever clan mechs you buy whenever you want to ...

The only reason I pug is to get ready for CW. Since I wont be using Clan Mechs in CW, then dropping in them would be wasted practice.

[Koniving]

This video by wauweli is incredible.

[Magna Canus]

I had a choice between two faith purchases this year; MWO or Star Citizen. It was a choice between the devil you know and the one you don't. I have had 2 years of good gaming with MWO as it is, but development of the one key selling point for me, Community warfare, is so slow and still far off in the mysterious fog of "Soon™" that my level of faith in PGI was far less than the "unknown" of Star Citizen. What I did have to go on were past titles developed by each company/person; Wing Commander / Privateer vs. a fishing game and some mods. Another factor was funding; PGI is at the mercy of IGP and Microsoft, Star Citizen enjoys a level of autonomy/independence due to its 43+ Mil$ crowd funding.

Past purchases also influenced the choice; My hero mechs work as advertized, as do my Phoenix mechs "for the most part". That last bit was the one that bugged me since a selling point here was the loyalist bonus you would supposedly get... but that is tied to CW and CW is still nowhere in sight despite half a dozen developer statements that led me to believe it would be out by now.

Star Citizen won out and got my gaming cash for this year.

I have no deep rooted hate for PGI like some, nor do I wave the banner of "LIES" before me, but I do believe that PGI has placed itself in a spot where the only reaction they can expect is "I'll believe it when I see it". The same goes for clan mechs/tech. I would love to get my hands on a few, but I prefer to let the community test it all out for the next 6 months until they come out for C-bills. By then I should have a fairly good idea of what is good and what is not and filter my choices from there.

Even if they cost 75mil each, I still have enough banked for 3 clan mechs plus several 13mil pods. By the time it all comes out for C-bills I should have enough C-bills accumulated for another mech or 3. So, thanks for the offer PGI, but no thanks.

[Smitti]

Koniving, on 15 June 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

This video by wauweli is incredible.

Give this guy a job in marketing for mechwarrior. More thought and effort has gone into this than anything media-wise i've ever seen from PGI unfortunately.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Nice speech but at this point in time, the have released UI 2.0 and Launch module+Clans. Also that was just this year,they already showed me my investment was worth it. I have no doubt the will push to community warfare and I without a doubt know it is coming this year. If they release the clans on the exact date they place for release, they will have showed me they learned the lessons from 2012-13.

Do what you will but I think We all heard enough of these doubt speeches, and despite the clear progression some still want to be cling to the broken not to mention 1 broken promise of when CW would be out.

Magnakanus, on 16 June 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

I had a choice between two faith purchases this year; MWO or Star Citizen. It was a choice between the devil you know and the one you don't. I have had 2 years of good gaming with MWO as it is, but development of the one key selling point for me, Community warfare, is so slow and still far off in the mysterious fog of "Soon™" that my level of faith in PGI was far less than the "unknown" of Star Citizen. What I did have to go on were past titles developed by each company/person; Wing Commander / Privateer vs. a fishing game and some mods. Another factor was funding; PGI is at the mercy of IGP and Microsoft, Star Citizen enjoys a level of autonomy/independence due to its 43+ Mil$ crowd funding.

Past purchases also influenced the choice; My hero mechs work as advertized, as do my Phoenix mechs "for the most part". That last bit was the one that bugged me since a selling point here was the loyalist bonus you would supposedly get... but that is tied to CW and CW is still nowhere in sight despite half a dozen developer statements that led me to believe it would be out by now.

Star Citizen won out and got my gaming cash for this year.

I have no deep rooted hate for PGI like some, nor do I wave the banner of "LIES" before me, but I do believe that PGI has placed itself in a spot where the only reaction they can expect is "I'll believe it when I see it". The same goes for clan mechs/tech. I would love to get my hands on a few, but I prefer to let the community test it all out for the next 6 months until they come out for C-bills. By then I should have a fairly good idea of what is good and what is not and filter my choices from there.

Even if they cost 75mil each, I still have enough banked for 3 clan mechs plus several 13mil pods. By the time it all comes out for C-bills I should have enough C-bills accumulated for another mech or 3. So, thanks for the offer PGI, but no thanks.

[Magna Canus]

BLOOD WOLF, on 16 June 2014 - 02:07 AM, said:

Nice speech but at this point in time, the have released UI 2.0 and Launch module+Clans. Also that was just this year,they already showed me my investment was worth it. I have no doubt the will push to community warfare and I without a doubt know it is coming this year. If they release the clans on the exact date they place for release, they will have showed me they learned the lessons from 2012-13.

Do what you will but I think We all heard enough of these doubt speeches, and despite the clear progression some still want to be cling to the broken not to mention 1 broken promise of when CW would be out.

Well Blood Wolf, doubt is based on experience. Let's hope PGI delivers a more consistent experience from now on and we can talk about a change in perception.

A companies reputation is just like your own personal reputation; if you screw up consistently for a while then a few objectives met are not enough to erase the past. It helps, but you have to either work harder to prove you have bettered yourself, or you move to another country, change your name, and start over.

Like I said, I do hope they will meet their deadlines, produce good content, create a great CW rendition, etc., but I will believe it when I see it and do a little dance of joy when it comes to pass. The whole thing is based on the laws of cause and effect.

[C E Dwyer]

Belorion, on 10 June 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Still there has been 0 information on this. I am not willing to take the risk.

Is everyone really going to be ok with all Clan Mech vs all Clan Mech in a Davion vs Liao match community warfare match?

Nope not everyone, stopped playing regular two weeks ago, haven't logged on for days, I'm finding Shar wolfs. take PGI to court or shut up calling them liars, when the falsehoods of PGI are written all over these forums and by PGi themselves, more entertaining than the game at present.

Sadly there is a big big gulf between proof of falsehoods, and enough evidence to gain a conviction.

There most certainly is enough evidence of false advertising to get all money back from this product in a European court, however as is the way of things any court action would take place in either Canada, of which I know nothing about the legal system, or America, with the legal system that found OJ Simpson not guilty of murder.

So the bottom line is people come here to talk about it, or whine as some people put it, as any legal challenge is bound to end in failure whether justified or not.

[C E Dwyer]

Koniving, on 15 June 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

This video by wauweli is incredible.

Amazing best I've ever seen in any game, gave me goosebumps.

Sadly this won't happen, on public servers, I strongly believe the concept of a fair game, between clan and IS tech is to complicated and outside the ability of PGI to produce.

[NeoCodex]

Appogee, on 14 June 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

It's clear that the commitments made throughout 2012 and 2013 on Community Warfare release dates were deceptive ... most likely designed to keep pulling in Founder and then Phoenix funding. PGI had actually done nothing on Community Warfare prior to the licence extension in 2013, except have some relatively vague ideas which they shared in a recycled set of Powerpoint slides at the launch. We can deduce from their own statements that they had no intention of doing anything unless they got the licence renewal "to justify continuing to spend large amounts of development funds on the game".

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. There would be no point to start developing something of this scale until you are not sure your license is guaranteed to last in the years coming that you will be developing this for. The game had to prove itself first that it has potential and is making good revenue. It was the fanbase that suffered from the lies at most, if just the extension of license was the case of holding development back (it looks like they held everything back for 1 year), than I don't understand why didn't they just tell us that they needed a license extension before developing CW is viable?

[Magna Canus]

NeoCodex, on 16 June 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

I think this actually makes a lot of sense. There would be no point to start developing something of this scale until you are not sure your license is guaranteed to last in the years coming that you will be developing this for. The game had to prove itself first that it has potential and is making good revenue. It was the fanbase that suffered from the lies at most, if just the extension of license was the case of holding development back (it looks like they held everything back for 1 year), than I don't understand why didn't they just tell us that they needed a license extension before developing CW is viable?

Straight up honest would have gone a long way towards placating the community and retaining more of their tattered reputation that is currently left. It may have gone a much longer way in keeping sales up and steady as well.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Magnakanus, on 16 June 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

Star Citizen won out and got my gaming cash for this year.

Thank you for being more mature about it than most who have chosen SC over MWO at least

[Votanin FleshRender]

Is there a phone number for support? Looked everywhere and can't find one... Wanted to change my order but the support ticket hasn't been updated all day long. I'm sure they're pretty busy, but I really prefer voice communications anyway.

[tayhimself]

Shimmering Sword, on 13 June 2014 - 07:28 PM, said:

I guess I can cut my entire defense of PGI down to:
"Learn the difference between actual lying, and changing plans based on reactions to problems and evolving needs. They are different things"

So are PGI doing the latter or the former? When judging for myself I'm a little unsure, but i tend to conclude the former.

[Ripper X]

I think the Last Call should be on Wednesday. Many people get paid on Tuesdays.

[AUSSIETROOPER4]

If clan collections are still avaailable after June 17 what was the point of ttthr schedule on tthe website and the pre-order? Should i have waited?