208 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

YueFei, on 07 June 2014 - 06:46 PM, said:

They mentioned 1 second. To fall for 1 second on a planet with roughly 1g (say, 10 meters/sec^2), you need to fall from a height of about 5 meters. Do the math, and double-check for yourself.

That's less than 1 mech height. A Centurion is 14 meters tall. Falling from something less than waist-height would result in leg damage to a Centurion.

Kind've like how Light mechs without JJ's running over un-even terrain already wreck their legs just from running around.



This won't nerf poptarts. They jump the very shortest height possible to barely clear their guns to fire. It's like an 8 meter jump, after which they have JJ's to cushion their fall.

Everyone else who isn't poptarting with JJs, and are instead using their JJs for big air and giant leaps? They are the ones who are gonna destroy their legs.

Non-JJ mechs like the Centurion are gonna trash their legs just falling from something less than half its height.

This nerf gun is gonna miss the mark and end up hitting innocent bystanders.

Invoking the "law of unintended consequences". I like it.

Whenever I run something like the Raven-3L or something ground bound... the tendency to "duck" via dropping down is relatively important. I'm not surprised if I take damage, but if the damage is silly, there can be problems down the line.

Imagine mechs dropping down to Theta on Frozen City, trying to defend the cap.

"Why won't you drop down?"
"It'll hurt my legs too much."

Good times.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

If people are having trouble shooting mechs in the air.

Why not eliiminate jumpjets entirely?

.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 07 June 2014 - 07:46 PM.

[Cimarb]

I Zeratul I, on 07 June 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

If people are having trouble shooting mechs while moving.

Why not eliiminate moving entirely?

.

FTFY... Not sure if you are trolling or not, which is sad...

[Reno Blade]

Deathlike, on 07 June 2014 - 06:57 PM, said:

Invoking the "law of unintended consequences". I like it.

Whenever I run something like the Raven-3L or something ground bound... the tendency to "duck" via dropping down is relatively important. I'm not surprised if I take damage, but if the damage is silly, there can be problems down the line.

Imagine mechs dropping down to Theta on Frozen City, trying to defend the cap.

"Why won't you drop down?"
"It'll hurt my legs too much."

Good times.

Haha! Yea,
but isn't that part of the immersion? You would need to think if the risk is worth the reward, or you take more tactical/strategical approach and move into position around the ramps with your ground forces while your JJ mechs can take the fast routes and cut the enemy off from the other side.

[Cimarb]

Reno Blade, on 08 June 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

Haha! Yea,
but isn't that part of the immersion? You would need to think if the risk is worth the reward, or you take more tactical/strategical approach and move into position around the ramps with your ground forces while your JJ mechs can take the fast routes and cut the enemy off from the other side.

Exactly. Why do you take the stairs to go from one floor to another? Because the jump will break your legs...

An Atlas shouldn't be able to jump off a cliff in Tourmaline without taking any leg damage.

[Aym]

Deathlike, on 06 June 2014 - 05:11 PM, said:

It likely won't change that much.

If you realize the kind of armor assaults run for leg armor (particularly the Highlander), then it won't do that much.

Of course, if you're skimping on armor OR already get legged easily (see Quickdraw), then you're going to have a bigger problem.

I see you fixed your #'s, but I think even a couple of mis-timed falls will have a significant impact on how viable legging those assault jump-snipers will be.

[YueFei]

Reno Blade, on 08 June 2014 - 03:11 AM, said:

Haha! Yea,
but isn't that part of the immersion? You would need to think if the risk is worth the reward, or you take more tactical/strategical approach and move into position around the ramps with your ground forces while your JJ mechs can take the fast routes and cut the enemy off from the other side.

This just screws over non-JJ-capable mechs *even more*. The hill-climbing restrictions already limits possible movement routes, and causes non-JJ mechs to be funneled through chokepoints and killzones.

Now, not only those non-JJ mechs can't climb hills, now they can't run off of a hill without hurting their legs, either.

This change will make JJs even more mandatory. As if seeing all 24 mechs in the Tournament Finals having JJs doesn't already make it clear enough that JJs are mandatory. =/

[Reno Blade]

Well, If poptarting isn't working anymore because of changes to the weapons, the JJets would not be mandatory.
I hope we will get the same mechanic for IS PPC and ACs as the Clans, but thats another topic (and another thread).

[Rabbit Blacksun]

pffft ... if your in a locust you go amber as soon as you have to step over a car -.- ...

[Creovex]

Overdue mechanic... bravo for finally getting to it.

[L Y N X]

I like it! This will force folks to not expend all their jump fuel on the way up. Nice balance to it! Poptarting just got harder, which means if you can do it effectively, all the more power to you!

[DeathlyEyes]

Mechs without jump jets will basically be screwed on maps such as canyon. Jump snipers will reserve jump jets to make sure they can cushion their landing. I think this will just create more problems. It will also create a greater skill gap and learning curve since jump sniping will be harder. Those who do it as second nature will likely be unaffected.

Edited by SLDF DeathlyEyes, 08 June 2014 - 08:27 PM.

[Reno Blade]

Don't forget that there will be a new module that reduces fall damage.
We don't know the values of that, but that could be easily tweaked to have better effect for light mechs like the locust than for assault mechs like the atlas.

[PhoenixFire55]

The proposed system is very arbitrary and thus bad.

In TT game you make a roll check to see if you land safely or not. That check depends on both piloting skill and terrain where you land. It should be implemented the same way in MWO, depending on terrain and the pilots ability to find that good terrain for landing...

If you land on a flat terrain your legs take same damage they usually take now, very little. If you land on uneven terrain you take full damage as proposed. You already have movement archtypes and such, use them, along with terrain slope angles to calculate damage applied, plus critical chances to bust your leg actuators (just like in TT).

On a side note, ffs fix the collisions already! Because if you don't, then landing on the head of another mech will result in ... bingo! no damage. If you claim this change to fall damage to be real game balancing change instead of yet another anti-poptart crutch, then you HAVE TO bring collisions back as well.

[RetroActive]

Nyden, on 06 June 2014 - 08:11 PM, said:

...

Also, as someone who has an excellent grasp of Newtonian physics, I can tell you that if your jumping from a low position to a ledge you will not be falling very far (you fall from where the jump jets stop providing thrust) before you stop and, therefore, you won't be falling very fast. On the other hand, if you have 4 or 6 jump jets and use all your fuel going straight up, you will be falling very quickly by the time you hit the ground.

...

Oh noes...

[cmslick3]

Hopefully my picture works for you all.

I would like to see an accelerometer added to the HUD of mechs with JJ if the proposed fall damage gets implemented.

This way pilots can see what their acceleration is currently and help them judge how much fuel they will need to slow down when falling.

In case you can't read the caption in the picture I propose:

rising acceleration - Green fill up on graph
not jumping - static center line
safe falling acceleration - yellow fill down on graph
safe fall acceleration limit - orange line (29f/s)
unsafe falling acceleration - red fill down on graph

[Falcore]

I think this is a great blow to the jump sniper, well done.

[WarHippy]

So if you are in the air for more than one second you take damage even if you pulse your jets for a soft landing?

Also, shouldn't some mechs like the Highlander be taking less damage than other Assaults since they are designed with sturdier legs so they can perform their Highlander Burials several times?

[Alexander Schmidt]

As there seem to be confusion about when fall damage applies, I would like to take the chance to clarify.

In order to take fall damage two conditions need to be true:

1. A Mech is only eligible of taking damage if the time in the air before touching the ground is longer than a certain value (in the example this was 1 second).

2. Once the first condition (air time) is met, the fall speed (y-axis) must reach a certain minimum (in the example 30 ft/s). Even if the condition of time in the air is met but the fall speed was under the minimum, there will be no fall damage taken.

Both of these conditions also prevent from taking fall damage while moving over uneven terrain with high speeds.

I hope this could help clearing up the confusion.

NOTE: All numbers above are for example purposes only.

[Gorgo7]

cmslick3, on 09 June 2014 - 08:55 AM, said:

Hopefully my picture works for you all.

I would like to see an accelerometer added to the HUD of mechs with JJ if the proposed fall damage gets implemented.

This way pilots can see what their acceleration is currently and help them judge how much fuel they will need to slow down when falling.

In case you can't read the caption in the picture I propose:

rising acceleration - Green fill up on graph
not jumping - static center line
safe falling acceleration - yellow fill down on graph
safe fall acceleration limit - orange line (29f/s)
unsafe falling acceleration - red fill down on graph

Nice thinking but impractical and over engineered.

Cheers!