106 replies to this topic

[Kh0rn]

Poptarting by Cannon was either used as a surprise tactic or a last ditched effort too get a kill. Unless that mech was build with stabilizing jump jets I.E. the shadowcat. I refuse too pilot meta mechs and I have myself the dramatic change is huge. poptart is the most effective way too play the game since there is no draw back too them. Perhaps the leg damage increase will fix that. Even with a 2 PPC JJ Quickdraw i was about too hit 900 damage with very little effort. remove the jump jets and it became a different fight. If you had too rely on instinct too fire , worry about your landing so you did not fall over and recoil of a large weapon while in the air then yea it will be hard but right now it is the low risk High value play if it was really skillful you wouldn't see 2/3 of the players doing it. In regards too the bunny hopping it is a HSR exploit because I used it while in my Quickdraw and was able too get away almost untouched Iv seen mechs have AC rounds go right through them from it and technically if he had too jump skip around like that you would either snap your leg actuator from landing in un even angels or just plain topple over. Exploiting broken game mechanics is cheating in my books.

Edited by Kh0rn, 08 June 2014 - 05:40 AM.

[Toadkillerdog]

Jun Watarase, on 08 June 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

>splatcats
>low risk, high reward

Uh...all their weaponry was in the super easy to shoot off arms, they were useless outside a 270m range and the SRMs were terrible for killing anything except slow assaults.

The only people who insist jump sniping is hard are, not so coincidentally, the same people who use it all the time and think they are good. Its like asking a CEO whether he is overpaid, hes obviously not going to say no...

yeah, splatcats and especially ac40 jagers were actually quite high risk, as both could easily be gunned down if caught before they can assassinate their targets. Lights with ppcs, though annoying, are highly vulnerable to return fire, since yes they can move faster, but have to pause and aim their shot. Stopping in a light typically means death, while for an assault being exposed for a second is no big deal. Also, assault poptarts are most absurd in large groups, killing single ones is easy if they can be isolated. Hence, saying "I've killed poptarts" is nothing special, what is special is the entire 4 man of poptarts that can kill you in one volley. There is no cover from poptarting, there is no dodging shots, and these guys simply turn every game into either a quick roll or a long, tedious chore. What's amazing to me is that so many people are trying to defend it, as I know from running it myself for awhile how tedious and hilariously easy it is. You must be really desperate to boost that e-peen.

[Nikkoru]

StaggerCheck, on 08 June 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Zeratul, you strike me as a professional jump sniper who is downplaying how outlandishly easy it is to jump snipe in an effort to abort further nerfs to your favoured tactic. Either that, or you are one horrible jump snipe player who cannot figure out how effective it is in practice.

^ Quoted for truth.

OP, Ignore Zaratul, it's obvious that he is trolling you.

Currently about 80% of the players in any given pug drop are going to be jump snipers. Heck, I just finished a match where 6 out of the 12 mechs on my side were Victors.

So, yeah, there is obviously a balance issue.

Edited by Nikkoru, 08 June 2014 - 07:06 AM.

[Mystere]

Nikkoru, on 08 June 2014 - 07:05 AM, said:

Currently about 80% of the players in any given pug drop are going to be jump snipers. Heck, I just finished a match where 6 out of the 12 mechs on my side were Victors.

Considering that's not the case in my PUG drops, that just means some of you guys are in "Elo Try-hard" while I am in "Elo Heaven".

[Destructicus]

StaggerCheck, on 08 June 2014 - 05:29 AM, said:

Zeratul, you strike me as a professional jump sniper who is downplaying how outlandishly easy it is to jump snipe in an effort to abort further nerfs to your favoured tactic. Either that, or you are one horrible jump snipe player who cannot figure out how effective it is in practice.

It's hilarious seeing a noob who can't exploit the meta right defending it.

Edited by Destructicus, 08 June 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

When was the last time any of you saw a jump sniper inflict more than 1,000 damage in a match?

Probably never. I bet none of you has seen or even heard of someone breaking 1k damage.

Whereas its common for AC and meta builds to break 1k damage on a regular basis.

If jump snipers average 300 - 500 damage per game.

AC builds average 400-800+ damage per game.

In a rational world, everyone might be complaining AC's and meta builds are overpowered considering they deal massively more damage than jump snipers do on a regular basis.

Some of you pretend jump sniping is an *invincibility shield* that magically makes someone impossible to target or kill, giving them an unfair advantage.

Evidence speaks to the contrary.

Jump snipers don't inflict much damage. They aren't dominating every game. They're a niche area, more of a nuisance than a real threat. And some of you seem extremely biased and prejudiced against jump sniping / brawling for irrational reasons that don't make sense.

.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 08 June 2014 - 11:16 AM.

[Rhent]

I Zeratul I, on 08 June 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

When was the last time any of you saw a jump sniper inflict more than 1,000 damage in a match?

Probably never. I bet none of you has seen or even heard of someone breaking 1k damage.

Whereas its common for AC and meta builds to break 1k damage on a regular basis.

If jump snipers average 300 - 500 damage per game.

AC builds average 400-800+ damage per game.

In a rational world, everyone might be complaining AC's and meta builds are overpowered considering they deal massively more damage than jump snipers do on a regular basis.

Some of you pretend jump sniping is an *invincibility shield* that magically makes someone impossible to target or kill, giving them an unfair advantage.

Evidence speaks to the contrary.

Jump snipers don't inflict much damage. They aren't dominating every game. They're a niche area, more of a nuisance than a real threat. And some of you seem extremely biased and prejudiced against jump sniping / brawling for irrational reasons that don't make sense.

.

NOPE, NOPE, Jump Snipers are not dominating the game NOPE NOPE.

Of course there is this:
http://mwomercs.com/...ning-mechs-sale

[Toadkillerdog]

I Zeratul I, on 08 June 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

When was the last time any of you saw a jump sniper inflict more than 1,000 damage in a match?

Probably never. I bet none of you has seen or even heard of someone breaking 1k damage.

Whereas its common for AC and meta builds to break 1k damage on a regular basis.

If jump snipers average 300 - 500 damage per game.

AC builds average 400-800+ damage per game.

In a rational world, everyone might be complaining AC's and meta builds are overpowered considering they deal massively more damage than jump snipers do on a regular basis.

Some of you pretend jump sniping is an *invincibility shield* that magically makes someone impossible to target or kill, giving them an unfair advantage.

Evidence speaks to the contrary.

Jump snipers don't inflict much damage. They aren't dominating every game. They're a niche area, more of a nuisance than a real threat. And some of you seem extremely biased and prejudiced against jump sniping / brawling for irrational reasons that don't make sense.

.

they don't score that much damage because they don't have to. All of their damage is concentrated on one point, and they can easily core out heavy mechs quickly. Add to this the fact that they can so easily run mass poptarts (known as the 3 DS+ 1 3D team that I've seen countless times) and four poptarts up at once can drop any single mech instantly if they coordinate. My lance runs this same kind of coordination, but since we're all ground based ACs and lasers we have to try to hit that point repeatedly, something you can torso twist away from. It's also extremely difficult to get four standard mechs viable shots on a single component, since most maps you're fighting in funnels and such that limit your mobility. Meanwhile, I've seen dozens of matches where four poptarts all jump up over a single piece of cover right next to eachother and gun down mechs instantly. And no, as Rhent demonstrated, evidence heavily supports this conclusion time and time again. Maybe you simply found a way to suck at poptarting.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Rhent, on 08 June 2014 - 11:56 AM, said:

NOPE, NOPE, Jump Snipers are not dominating the game NOPE NOPE.

Of course there is this:
http://mwomercs.com/...ning-mechs-sale

That doesn't mean anything.

Drop in a normal game with a victor using a tournament build. You probably won't do well. You certainly won't have an unfair advantage or be overpowered.

Toadkillerdog, on 08 June 2014 - 12:05 PM, said:

four poptarts up at once can drop any single mech instantly if they coordinate.

Four locusts can drop any single mech instantly if they coordinate and focus fire.

That doesn't prove poptarts or locusts have an unfair advantage. Or, that they're overpowered.

[Kh0rn]

The reason is because poptarting while it has its place in BT was extremely rare and hard too pull off unless as I said the mech was created too do so. The fact its on a par with MW4 which has about as much cannon as a brick does. If it states its suppose too be hard or not a viable choice other then from using the JJ too be a movment mobility increase that is how it should be. And yes the reason Brawlers get more damage is because its all spread around on a target that is moving where as in Poptart is all about pin point 500 damage an 5 kills or 950 damage and 1 kill.

[Rhent]

I Zeratul I, on 08 June 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

That doesn't mean anything.

Drop in a normal game with a victor using a tournament build. You probably won't do well. You certainly won't have an unfair advantage or be overpowered.



Four locusts can drop any single mech instantly if they coordinate and focus fire.

That doesn't prove poptarts or locusts have an unfair advantage. Or, that they're overpowered.

How much crack do you smoke in a day and who is your dealer?

[Appogee]

I get worse damage totals jump-sniping than I do brawling.

BUT I did notice that in the HoL vs CSJ final of the recent tournament, more than half the Mechs on each team were actually rigged for jump sniping, which must mean that the high Elo players think jump sniping is the way to go.

[Kh0rn]

So pro , much wow , uberleet, such skill. Those guys who slog it out in the non meta mechs like Quickdraws , commandos , Trebs, Atlas -D and Awesomes those are the real skillful mechwarriors. Pulling high numbers and kills with those requires skill. And if you want too go a step further Stock mech matches. No meta no bullshit, Mech on mech.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

The reason is because poptarting while it has its place in BT was extremely rare and hard too pull off unless as I said the mech was created too do so. The fact its on a par with MW4 which has about as much cannon as a brick does. If it states its suppose too be hard or not a viable choice other then from using the JJ too be a movment mobility increase that is how it should be. And yes the reason Brawlers get more damage is because its all spread around on a target that is moving where as in Poptart is all about pin point 500 damage an 5 kills or 950 damage and 1 kill.

#1 Jump sniping is rare & might be difficult to pull off in this game. Then again, an atlas is supposed to be rare. Yet we see 8 of them in some games. Who says everything needs to conform 100% to battletech canon?

#2 Jumpjet sniping & brawling have been an integral part of every mechwarrior game ever. Its always been easier to successfully shoot a mech in the cockpit by using jump jets. That's the way its been in the mechwarrior genre for the last 10+ years. Things have always been this way. How could it not be canon?

#3 Poptarts never do 500 damage, much less 900 damage. If you jump enough to hit those numbers your legs will be completely destroyed probably before you manage to do 400 damage. Try it, sometime. Try to do 500 damage jump sniping. I bet none of you complaining about jump snipers being "overpowered" could manage to do even 400 damage jump sniping.

Appogee, on 08 June 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

I get worse damage totals jump-sniping than I do brawling.

Finally someone honest who knows what they're talking about.

You got it right. Jump sniping isn't overpowered. You won't get a lot of kills or do a lot of damage doing it.

I think tournament players add jump jets to give them a plan b option. Its so they have more options other than going around the corner. .

[Rhent]

I Zeratul I, on 08 June 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

#1 Jump sniping is rare & might be difficult to pull off in this game. Then again, an atlas is supposed to be rare. Yet we see 8 of them in some games. Who says everything needs to conform 100% to battletech canon?

#2 Jumpjet sniping & brawling have been an integral part of every mechwarrior game ever. Its always been easier to successfully shoot a mech in the cockpit by using jump jets. That's the way its been in the mechwarrior genre for the last 10+ years. Things have always been this way. How could it not be canon?

#3 Poptarts never do 500 damage, much less 900 damage. If you jump enough to hit those numbers your legs will be completely destroyed probably before you manage to do 400 damage. Try it, sometime. Try to do 500 damage jump sniping. I bet none of you complaining about jump snipers being "overpowered" could manage to do even 400 damage jump sniping.



Finally someone honest who knows what they're talking about.

You got it right. Jump sniping isn't overpowered. You won't get a lot of kills or do a lot of damage doing it.

I think tournament players add jump jets to give them a plan b option. Its so they have more options other than going around the corner. .

Jumpsniping is rare? On an average drop 33% of the mechs are Victors, Highlanders and 3D's. And that is a low estimate to be nice. Jumpsniping is the most common build in the game now.

[Kh0rn]

I did 900 damage in a Quickdraw with 2 PPC and JJ enough Said. climb into my Atlas suddenly I need too use cover no jump jetting for me gotta commit or I am trashed. And if you read cannon you will know that only 8 pilots in the Inner sphere could actually jump and shoot effectively. The HGN was one of the worst jump platforms ever build all it was know for was the highlaner burial. MWLL has a good system of JJ they should use that. it has cockpit shake In the whole jump . The jets actually generate heat and take time too recharge and it is more of a "jump" then a hover jet.

there is the 900 Damage Quickdraw. I rest my case.

Edited by Kh0rn, 08 June 2014 - 01:07 PM.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2014 - 01:03 PM, said:

I did 900 damage in a Quickdraw with 2 PPC and JJ enough Said. climb into my Atlas suddenly I need too use cover no jump jetting for me gotta commit or I am trashed. And if you read cannon you will know that only 8 pilots in the Inner sphere could actually jump and shoot effectively. The HGN was one of the worst jump platforms ever build all it was know for was the highlaner burial. MWLL has a good system of JJ they should use that. it has cockpit shake In the whole jump . The jets actually generate heat and take time too recharge and it is more of a "jump" then a hover jet.

there is the 900 Damage Quickdraw. I rest my case.

If jump sniping is "overpowered".

Make a video clip of you scoring 900+ damage doing nothing but jump sniping.

You might have done 900 damage there, but I would be willing to bet you didn't get half of that damage jump sniping. You probably crept around corners or sniped normally without using jump jets, hence it doesn't count.

I think what some of you are missing is this game needs jump brawling & jump sniping. There has to be something to do when people get bored of AC's. When AC's get boring, or a person masters AC's, they can move on to jump brawling & jump sniping. They have a new play style to learn and master. It gives the game depth and added replay value. Jump sniping also gives PPC's a role they wouldn't otherwise have and helps to balance things out against AC's.

I doubt there are 8 players in this game who can jump snipe at long range and hit the cockpit of a moving mech with good accuracy while in the air. That's close enough to canon to be legit.

Like I said earlier, jump sniping isn't overpowered. A person isn't likely get many kills or do much damage doing it.

If you disagree -- make a video clip of you in game scoring 500+ damage or getting kills by jump sniping.

There is no reason to add cockpit shake or to nerf jump snipers because jump sniping isn't overpowered.

Edited by I Zeratul I, 08 June 2014 - 01:18 PM.

[Kh0rn]

I never said poptarting should be removed but its far too easy too pull off. If it had simple things like chances too fall over , recoil in air or relying on your instinct too fire the shot then I would have no problem but as it is now if it was really "Skillful" you would only see a handful doing it but every game I go too there every where In all the mech trailers there was no poptarting if it was the go too thing in this universe every mech pilot would do just that. and regarding the 8 that was poptarting in general if the mech was not a stabilized platform with the right Jets it would be very difficult and a last resort too use.

Edited by Kh0rn, 08 June 2014 - 01:28 PM.

[Mcgral18]

I Zeratul I, on 08 June 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

#1 Jump sniping is rare & might be difficult to pull off in this game. Then again, an atlas is supposed to be rare. Yet we see 8 of them in some games. Who says everything needs to conform 100% to battletech canon?

#3 Poptarts never do 500 damage, much less 900 damage. If you jump enough to hit those numbers your legs will be completely destroyed probably before you manage to do 400 damage. Try it, sometime. Try to do 500 damage jump sniping. I bet none of you complaining about jump snipers being "overpowered" could manage to do even 400 damage jump sniping.

"Rare" must have a different meaning to you.

As for damage...getting high damage normally means you're a bad poptart. Or use lots of consumables. Or carried very hard.

In my still Basic'ed LOL-Lander, which consists of 3 PPCs and a Gauss, and the required artillery strike it managed to get 7 kills and 809 damage.

Or the Meta-Hawk which garnered 1121 damage...with maximum meta spam.

Breaking 1k is easy if you spam all the strikes, and also don't aim to kill. Go for legs and you nearly double your damage, if you really want to. You just risk getting hit for longer.

However, for most matches you don't need more than 600 damage for best performance, assuming you were working with your team to core mechs quickly. Even 400 damage can be difficult if your targets die within 2 coordinated alpha strikes.

[XxXAbsolutZeroXxX]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2014 - 01:24 PM, said:

I never said poptarting should be removed but its far too easy too pull off. If it had simple things like chances too fall over , recoil in air or relying on your instinct too fire the shot then I would have no problem but as it is now if it was really "Skillful" you would only see a handful doing it but every game I go too there every where In all the mech trailers there was no poptarting if it was the go too thing in this universe every mech pilot would do just that. and regarding the 8 that was poptarting in general if the mech was not a stabilized platform with the right Jets it would be very difficult and a last resort too use.

If it was easy to pull off, there would be video clips of people scoring 1000+ damage jump sniping.

Could you find me even a single clip of someone in this game doing a lot of damage jump sniping, thus proving its "too easy"?

I see a lot of people *trying* to jump snipe who get murdered without breaking 200 damage. Maybe its not as easy as you think it is?

1. An atlas is supposed to be rare.
2. Clan technology is supposed to be rare.
3. Poptarts are supposed to be rare.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

It doesn't matter whether its supposed to be rare or not.

What matters is what is good or bad for the game.

It would be bad for the game if there were only 20 atlas.

It would be bad for the game if there were only 20 madcats.

It would be bad for the game if there were only 8 poptarts.

Trying to nerf poptarts to a point where there are only 8 poptarts is as bad as limiting the number of atlas or clan mechs in this game.

It doesn't make sense and there's no reason for it.

Mcgral18, on 08 June 2014 - 01:26 PM, said:

"Rare" must have a different meaning to you.

As for damage...getting high damage normally means you're a bad poptart. Or use lots of consumables. Or carried very hard.

In my still Basic'ed LOL-Lander, which consists of 3 PPCs and a Gauss, and the required artillery strike it managed to get 7 kills and 809 damage.

Or the Meta-Hawk which garnered 1121 damage...with maximum meta spam.

Breaking 1k is easy if you spam all the strikes, and also don't aim to kill. Go for legs and you nearly double your damage, if you really want to. You just risk getting hit for longer.

However, for most matches you don't need more than 600 damage for best performance, assuming you were working with your team to core mechs quickly. Even 400 damage can be difficult if your targets die within 2 coordinated alpha strikes.

Everyone says its "so easy" to deal high amounts of damage and kills jump sniping.

Yet, none of you has video evidence to prove it.

Why is that?

If jump sniping is "taking over" the game and "dominating" everything.

Why is it that none of you can prove it?