517 replies to this topic

[The Amazing Atomic Spaniel]

Hmmmm... very heavy and unimpressive compared to ECM.

[Calamus]

How does a targeting computer increase the speed of a projectile weapon?

That makes no sense.

I think the rest of it is a neat idea, but this projectile speed increase is just out to lunch. Increasing weapon convergence would make much more sense.

[Cimarb]

Lily from animove, on 10 June 2014 - 12:19 AM, said:

I am still confused,

So any Clanmech having a Targetting Computer can NOT change its rating? Since clanner rules say, special equipment can not be replaced?
Any other Clanmech can freely choose one of the TC's to add?

Any Clan mech can equip any CTC, but a Clan mech that comes with one in stock form gets the CTC that fits the tonnage in the default loadout (aka you don't have to purchase it).

Calamus, on 10 June 2014 - 12:04 PM, said:

How does a targeting computer increase the speed of a projectile weapon?

That makes no sense.

I think the rest of it is a neat idea, but this projectile speed increase is just out to lunch. Increasing weapon convergence would make much more sense.

Weapon convergence is a lie - we already have 100% weapon convergence! even before the placeholder piloting skill.

The only way to simulate the increased accuracy of weapons is to increase the projectile speed, as Khobai already did a great job of explaining a page or so ago.

[sabujo]

Disappointed with the command console, as most of everyone here.

One thing that this equipment should do is sharing the targeting information of ALL the enemies in range (outlined triangle) to the rest of the team. So instead of pressing R repeatedly, the bearer of the command console would transmit the location of enemies (not allowing locks, just the position similar to the seismic sensor).

This, among other fantastic tactical features others have suggested before me.

[Diraphity]

I would have preferred the command console extend modifiers to the entire lance or company if it is being used by a lance or company commander.

[Navid A1]

Hillslam, on 10 June 2014 - 07:48 AM, said:

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And I concur with the above: a 15% increase in shot speed is significant. It makes aiming easier. Anyone saying shot speed doesn't matter is trying to cloud the issue or flat out lieing (or stupid).

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while i appreciate your compliments about myself... i'll give you an example:

lets have a target locust north of your position running west at 150kph. it is 800m away. lets assume you are an assault mech and have 35+ tons of direct fire weapons so you can get 15% speed boost with mark VII.

A PPC projectile after speed boost has a 1725 m/s velocity. It will travel to the target in 0.46 seconds.
A PPC projectile without speed boost has 1500 m/s velocity and will travel to target in 0.53 seconds.

thats a 0.07 second difference. that locust can travel 2.9 meters in that time. (to get an idea of 2.9m in MWO stand next to a wall and read your range to see how close it is).

So now, you have to shoot 2.9 meters closer to target and your accuracy in hitting that spot is the same as your shooting accuracy on a spot 2.9m further.

you should also keep in mind that higher projctile velocity means that you have higher chance of missing if there is a slight error in your aiming.

by your logic... lasers all have 100% easy mode accuracy. yet with lasers, you'll miss if you are not dead center on target.

Cimarb, on 10 June 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

....
The only way to simulate the increased accuracy of weapons is to increase the projectile speed, as Khobai already did a great job of explaining a page or so ago.

...
how about giving you the tools you need to aim better?
this from page 6 of this topic: page 6

Edited by Navid A1, 10 June 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[Khavi Vetali]

Like and am looking forward to the targeting comps, but I think the planned CC implementation is uninspired and worthless.

[Cimarb]

Navid A1, on 10 June 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

how about giving you the tools you need to aim better?
this from page 6 of this topic: page 6

How would a targeting computer know where an enemies ammo is or what size engine it is? Weapons make a little sense, as you can visually see them, but you can't see the engine or ammo, so it makes no sense to have that information display.

Heat is worthless, as you can just switch to thermal on most matches, and speed is also worthless, as you can see how fast they are moving. Direction is shown on the minimap.

The only thing that would be semi-worthwhile as well as make sense would be the "blocked aim" tool. It is basically a mini-tag for each weapon, and could even be implemented as such. It is not very useful once you get experienced with your mech, as you learn how to use your weapons effectively after a few matches. It would be great for pilots new to that loadout, though, so I definitely wouldn't mind if they did something like that.

Regardless, I really like the CTC bonuses (as listed... I'll wait for final numbers before I give a final verdict), and will definitely be equipping them as much as possible by the looks of it.

[Navid A1]

Cimarb, on 10 June 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

How would a targeting computer know where an enemies ammo is or what size engine it is? Weapons make a little sense, as you can visually see them, but you can't see the engine or ammo, so it makes no sense to have that information display.

Heat is worthless, as you can just switch to thermal on most matches, and speed is also worthless, as you can see how fast they are moving. Direction is shown on the minimap.

The only thing that would be semi-worthwhile as well as make sense would be the "blocked aim" tool. It is basically a mini-tag for each weapon, and could even be implemented as such. It is not very useful once you get experienced with your mech, as you learn how to use your weapons effectively after a few matches. It would be great for pilots new to that loadout, though, so I definitely wouldn't mind if they did something like that.

Regardless, I really like the CTC bonuses (as listed... I'll wait for final numbers before I give a final verdict), and will definitely be equipping them as much as possible by the looks of it.

While i agree with you on heat and ammo location and maybe engine size, i still think that having speed and trajectory will make a big difference.

Blocked aim not usefull?... With your logic, i can say that the HUD is not useful. Because with practice, anyone can play without it... You know... Like a baws..!

[Frost Lord]

sabujo, on 10 June 2014 - 01:18 PM, said:

Disappointed with the command console, as most of everyone here.

One thing that this equipment should do is sharing the targeting information of ALL the enemies in range (outlined triangle) to the rest of the team. So instead of pressing R repeatedly, the bearer of the command console would transmit the location of enemies (not allowing locks, just the position similar to the seismic sensor).

This, among other fantastic tactical features others have suggested before me.

that and alow command functions like calling in the artilery and air strikes.

[Deimir]

While I haven't had the chance to read through the whole topic yet, it seems extremely counter-intuitive to add so many different projectile speed modifiers. Right now if I take a look at a moving target I can pretty easily guess where to lead my shot since all my projectiles across all my mechs go the same speed. Changing projectile speed based not only on which mechs have a computer, but varying it based on the CLASS of computer is going to make aiming at moving targets a headache.

[Livewyr]

RocketDog, on 10 June 2014 - 11:58 AM, said:

Hmmmm... very heavy and unimpressive compared to ECM.

Everything is unimpressive compared to the Frankenequipment Jesus Box.

(I dare anyone to try and tell me, in seriousness, that if ECM were available to every mech like AMS and BAP are, they would not put it on their mech.)

[Navid A1]

Livewyr, on 10 June 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Everything is unimpressive compared to the Frankenequipment Jesus Box.

(I dare anyone to try and tell me, in seriousness, that if ECM were available to every mech like AMS and BAP are, they would not put it on their mech.)

well...
i have just piloted 3 and only 3 mechs since closed beta AS7-D AS7-RS and AS7-K (K only for mastering). yes... no DDC.
I dont know what its like to have ECM in your load out and i wont.

was it enough for you? or you want visual proof.?

i intend to change that by trying out the kit-fox first.

Edited by Navid A1, 10 June 2014 - 07:52 PM.

[Cimarb]

Navid A1, on 10 June 2014 - 07:49 PM, said:

well...
i have just piloted 3 and only 3 mechs since closed beta AS7-D AS7-RS and AS7-K (K only for mastering). yes... no DDC.
I dont know what its like to have ECM in your load out and i wont.

was it enough for you? or you want visual proof.?

i intend to change that by trying out the kit-fox first.

You are obviously a big fan of the Atlas. Is there a reason you DIDN'T choose the DDC as one of your 3 mechs?

[Navid A1]

Cimarb, on 10 June 2014 - 08:00 PM, said:

You are obviously a big fan of the Atlas. Is there a reason you DIDN'T choose the DDC as one of your 3 mechs?

in my mind when one chooses a DDC, it has to have ECM... otherwise, why DDC?
ECM is tonnage that could have gone to weapons... (i carry a BAP on my D just in case, i should say)
not having ECM can be frustrating sometimes... but it teaches (forces) you to fight carefully and tactically. It should be noted that there are dozens of elite DDC pilots who fight well and become your nightmare with their ECM.

but hey... there are always ecm mechs in your team...no?
besides, protecting a DDC atlas is much easier than asking for protection.

Edited by Navid A1, 10 June 2014 - 08:11 PM.

[Docta Pain]

Command Console's description was such a let down and was so... flat. It offers no tactical benefit to the team or knowledge sharing. I cannot fathom a more complete divergence from it's intended use, form, and function. Wow. Just wow.

I would like a complete explanation on why the Command Console is intended to be so limited in scope.

[Navid A1]

Docta Pain, on 10 June 2014 - 08:40 PM, said:

Command Console's description was such a let down and was so... flat. It offers no tactical benefit to the team or knowledge sharing. I cannot fathom a more complete divergence from it's intended use, form, and function. Wow. Just wow.

I would like a complete explanation on why the Command Console is intended to be so limited in scope.

the idea of the command console providing team buffs holds only when there is clan vs IS matches. which in fact what it should be.
but when we are getting mixed clan/IS vs clan/IS matches, then clanners with TCs will have an edge that the IS mechs wont.

i hope they revise the clan TC and IS CC to it's true functions (target trajectory (without lead reticle) for TC and team buffs for CC)

[Alik Kerensky]

Problem I see with the TC is

Mcgral18, on 07 June 2014 - 08:45 PM, said:

So, if we stack the Target Info Gathering, Active Probe and a TC M VII...what happens with a -125% target info reduction? Is the AP wasted tonnage?

This would be my issue with the TC... hopefully it does not stack. That and the CC should maybe buff all IS mechs too if within a certain range a CC, and not be stackable with another CC's even if within range of multiples.

Edited by Alik Kerensky, 10 June 2014 - 09:35 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Livewyr, on 10 June 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

Everything is unimpressive compared to the Frankenequipment Jesus Box.

That is the most beautiful description of ECM I've read so far.

[N0MAD]

Cimarb, on 10 June 2014 - 01:00 PM, said:

Weapon convergence is a lie - we already have 100% weapon convergence! even before the placeholder piloting skill.

The only way to simulate the increased accuracy of weapons is to increase the projectile speed, as Khobai already did a great job of explaining a page or so ago.

Convergence i say indeed.
Well its not the only way.
A +to crit, as crit can be linked to better accuracy.

CC. Disappointing for 3 tons.
Would of thought it had a better Squad communication/data sharing implementation.