458 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Will the Clan LB-20X be able to split it's criticals into adjacent mech sections as in Battletech?

[5th Fedcom Rat]

In contrast to the epic LRM fumble, I actually think their plan for Clan ERPPCs sounds decent. You have 15 heat compared to 10 for I.S. PPCs but you get to do up to 5 extra damage and hopefully they will also weigh 1 ton less and take 1 slot less. And of course no minimum range.

The fact that there's people above worrying they will be both underpowered and overpowered suggests they may be close to the sweet spot balance wise.

[Livewyr]

Gauss: understood. . I actually just read the Phelan Wolf fight in the book, so that doesn't bother me.

LBX- not ideal, but it is what I world have done given the same situation, as a stop gap.

ERPPC, this frustrates me. The more I read about the balancing to the clans, the more I think: DOA.

Omni customization, interesting, but it's the only customization. Period.
FLD: I.S. ONLY. (When really, nothing should have it. (Even the PPC had a slight "burn time" being effectively lightning)
The advantage all of this nerfing is trying to counter, the formidable weapons package, is effectively being nullified before it earns the nerfs.

I think the clan mechs are slowly turning into ultra missile boats, and LBX-AC 20 boats, before they get here.

[Mcgral18]

Lightfoot, on 07 June 2014 - 09:25 PM, said:

Will the Clan LB-20X be able to split it's criticals into adjacent mech sections as in Battletech?

They stated awhile back there wouldn't be crit-splitting. They haven't really mentioned it since then. I think it was in one of the ATDs?

[Khobai]

Quote

In contrast to the epic LRM fumble, I actually think their plan for Clan ERPPCs sounds decent. You have 15 heat compared to 10 for I.S. PPCs but you get to do up to 5 extra damage and hopefully they will also weigh 1 ton less and take 1 slot less. And of course no minimum range.

Completely agree. Its actually better than the IS PPC. Because even though its doing the 5 arcing damage, it has no min range, and a better max range. Plus it takes up less tonnage and crits. And on top of that clan mechs can slot more heatsinks. CERPPC is 100% fine at 15 heat. However the IS ERPPC needs its heat reduced to 13-14.

[Snowseth]

Not a fan of the LRM solution.
They're supposed to full damage even at 1m, so let each missile do that.

Instead, give them a very wide spread. With the maximum spread at 90m and reducing to IS spreads at 180m.
By wide spread, I mean at 90m at most half of the launched missiles will hit an Atlas.
And that spread will guarantee that the damage is distributed over pretty much the whole mech.
Each missile still does full damage, but the volley will do, at best, 50% possible damage and not even close to being in one component.

Point blank firing will still allow for focused damage, of course. Meaning it like a lower damage, more dispersed SRM at ranges less than 180m.

But actually directly reducing missile damage seems to be a not so good solution.
Not that I've actually played with the new LRMs yet (obviously) ... so what do I know!

edit

Actually ... if the damage scaling is being done to ensure max possible damage is roughly 50% at ~90m, and higher (~75% per missile) 0-90m, and 100% per missile at 180+m... it'd be functionally the same.
So ... never mind?

Edited by Snowseth, 07 June 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[Cavendish]

Khobai, on 07 June 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

Completely agree. Its actually better than the IS PPC. Because even though its doing the 5 arcing damage, it has no min range, and a better max range. Plus it takes up less tonnage and crits. And on top of that clan mechs can slot more heatsinks. CERPPC is 100% fine at 15 heat. However the IS ERPPC needs its heat reduced to 13-14.

I dont know if I agree with you here. Clans do not have the option to use "regular" PPCs and if you look at the Adder for example you will have a mech with 11 DHS that runs 2 CERPPCs .... so in essense it shoots once then you have a break for a quick smoke while it cools down. To me, at least, it sort of makes the prime Adder a build that is hidiously DOA, 2 energy hardpoints on a 35 ton mech while Jenners runs around with 6?

I hate to drag up the TT game since it is really not a good foundation to build a Mechwarrior game on, but since they are using it for hardpoint design they need to recognize that the reason for the Clan mechs having fewer hardpoints was 1) the Omni system (which is sorta inferior to the IS mech system of customization we already have here, everyone is a special snowflake) and 2) the Clan weapons were rediculously overpowered (which they will not be here). In the MWO translation they kept the limitations but since the situation is reeeeaaaalllly diffrent here they are ending up culling a lot of mechs. While I do not wish to have the Clan weapons as the TT (because lets face it, it would ruin the game) I think they should have looked at the hardpoints on the Clan mechs and modified them by bumping up the numbers slightly,

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Gauss Rifles ... only 2 Gauss Rifles can be charged at one time.
This is very interesting.

Clan ER-PPC ... spreading its damage across multiple components.
Doesn't suck ... to all the "but the heat!" cries out there, remember that Clan DHS only take 2 slots.

Clan LBX Cluster vs Slug ... one off weapon type ...
Very interested to see how this works in practice. Even more interested to see how ammo switching is going to work.

Clan LRM Minimum Range ... have not had the time to get this fully working for the Clan launch.
I can't help but wonder, was there any design work done on the Clan 'mechs before they were announced? I'm guessing, "no".

I greatly appreciate the increased information flow, and hope that it keeps coming. However, someone needs to feed back to whoever is doing your marketing that trying to sell stuff that hasn't been at least partially fleshed out upsets your customers.

[Phlinger]

So.... with all these changes going in, how are IS weapons being handled? Same as they currently are?

Why doesn't the IS PPC get splash damage?

Why don't IS AC's do dot damage?

Seriously, if you are going to normalize it, then normalize it all around. Don't sell a bunch of Clan mechs with certain builds, the Adder and the Summoner come to mind and then say that the build that those come with (Which was terrifying in BT) isn't feasible in the current meta. The Summoner can only field 23 tons of weapons, on a 70 ton mech. What good will they do if the LRM's won't fire at close range, the AC does DoT damage and the PPC splashes. Wet noodle indeed.

[SpiralFace]

Deathlike, on 07 June 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

While tri-Gauss Ilyas get an indirect nerf (they are already glass cannons as they are), the ERPPC is still "perfect" for the FLD meta.

LRMs... why does it feel like you did this all at the last minute?

These are for clan weapons, so Ilya still gets her tripple Gauss. Only the clans will be limited by it.

Still, 4 guass rifles fired 2 at a time in rapid succession still seems super nasty to me.

[Deathlike]

SpiralFace, on 07 June 2014 - 09:47 PM, said:

These are for clan weapons, so Ilya still gets her tripple Gauss. Only the clans will be limited by it.

Still, 4 guass rifles fired 2 at a time in rapid succession still seems super nasty to me.

Please reread what Paul wrote.

Quote

Gauss Rifles
The Gauss Rifle will operate as is but only 2 Gauss Rifles can be charged at one time. For example, the Dire Wolf 'Mech can theoretically equip 4 Gauss Rifles. This would be VERY nasty on the battlefield since Gauss Rifles do not generate heat and can sync their charges all at the same time. Due to the amount of energy it takes to charge a Gauss Rifle, any given 'Mech can only charge and sustain 2 Guass Rifles at any one time. If you put all 4 Gauss Rifles on the same weapon group and hit and hold the key, you will see that only 2 of them will charge. If you do not fire them, the two charged weapons will discharge and the other two Gauss Rifles will instantly start charging. If you do fire the first two Gauss Rifles, you can start charging the other two immediately. Basically this translates to only being able to fire 2 Gauss Rifles at the same time. This mechanic will also be carried over to the Inner Sphere version of the Gauss Rifle.

[Redshift2k5]

Livewyr, on 07 June 2014 - 09:28 PM, said:

I think the clan mechs are slowly turning into ultra missile boats, and LBX-AC 20 boats, before they get here.

Go look at the damage:heat:weight for clan medium lasers. The CERLL and CLPL should be pretty nasty too if you make that range advantage work in your favour.

[FupDup]

What is Clans? Baby don't nerf me, don't nerf me, no more.

[SpiralFace]

sorry was in a game when this dropped and missed that part.

No major loss. I guess we can call this one the "B33f nerf."

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Snowseth, on 07 June 2014 - 09:34 PM, said:

Not that I've actually played with the new LRMs yet (obviously) ... so what do I know!

Don't worry, no one at PGI has either from the sounds of it.

[Khobai]

Quote

I dont know if I agree with you here. Clans do not have the option to use "regular" PPCs and if you look at the Adder for example you will have a mech with 11 DHS that runs 2 CERPPCs .... so in essense it shoots once then you have a break for a quick smoke while it cools down.

You just have to think of it like 2 CERPPCs = 3 ISPPCs and then its fine.

[Koniving]

Cavendish, on 07 June 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

I dont know if I agree with you here. Clans do not have the option to use "regular" PPCs and if you look at the Adder for example you will have a mech with 11 DHS that runs 2 CERPPCs .... so in essense it shoots once then you have a break for a quick smoke while it cools down. To me, at least, it sort of makes the prime Adder a build that is hidiously DOA, 2 energy hardpoints on a 35 ton mech while Jenners runs around with 6?

All mechs by lore chainfired their weapons as a standard (obviously there are many stories, vids, etc. of firing 2 or 3 weapons at once but for the most part if those penalties on the 30 threshold scale truly mattered you'd be chain firing too). In no situation is this more true than PPCs and ER PPCs. Even the Warhawk with 20 DHS can still fire within 30 threshold, without ever hitting 30, by chain firing the 4 ER PPCs one at a time with a spacing of 2 to 3 seconds between each one. The Adder, the Awesome, and various others are no exception.

Of course... All autocannons by lore (the books, the tech manuals, etc., and obviously not encompassed in the tabletop itself despite being in the manuals, fluff, and even the advanced rules) fired multiple rounds to reach x damage. That AC/10? Anywhere from 6 (120mm at 1.666666666666667 damage per shot) to 20 shots (80mm at 0.5 damage per shot) to get 10 damage.

Besides, switch arms on the Adder. I'm quite certain there are 2 and 3 hardpoint variations. There are Adders with multiple laser weapons on the arms. Even some with autocannons.

(For more information and demonstrations for anyone interested...)

MWO's heatsink superiority to TT proven + "the Awesome spits at Ghost Heat because it's still superior firepower to TT paradox."

Spoiler

Koniving, on 05 May 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Psst.
This build has 20 DHS. To be fair, without unlocks it wields 64 threshold and a cooling rate of 3.4/sec.
However it wields after unlocks:
Cooling Rate : 3.91 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 76.8
on forest colony
On Forest colony snow, it wields:
Cooling Rate : 4.89 heat/sec
Heat Threshold : 96
But to slap it in Forest Colony Snow is unfair.

If you're so interested..
Lets just look at the cooling rate of 20 DHS in Tabletop.
20 * 2 / 10.
4.0/sec cooling.
You were talking about gimped, earlier?
20 DHS in MWO on forest colony (heat neutral map; no effects). 3.91/sec cooling.
20 DHS in TT without a map. 4.0/sec cooling.
The DHS is "gimped" by 0.09 on a heat neutral map. That's with ALL 20 MWO DHS; that's all you're gimped, is 0.09 out of the total. You're missing out on "0.0045" cooling per second per DHS.
Do you know how insignificant that is?
There's even combinations between 16 and 18 DHS where you have "0.21" DHS instead of 0.2 as in tabletop.
And then you add the threshold increases, and we've essentially got QHS instead of DHS.
Feel free to play with this.
---------
To add: Warning: Math a plenty!

Spoiler

With ghost heat, I can fire 3 standard PPCs 3 times in a row before I shutdown. Ghost heat adds an addition 12.6 heat per shot (essentially 4 PPCs), that's the heat of 4 PPCs + 2.6 additional heat each firing, every 4 seconds from 0 seconds, to 4 seconds, to 8 seconds. In total I've generated 42.6 heat each time with 3 intervals. That's 127.8 heat generated total. 8 seconds of cooling in tabletop from 20 DHS would be 4.0 per second, 16 heat cooled per interval so a total of 32 cooled. Which would leave me at 95.8 heat left over when I finally shut down and have to wait a while to cool. (In tabletop I'd generate 30 heat each time, total of 90, and cool 32 leaving me at 58).

Except we also have MWO's cooling rate, so we wind up with: 127.8 generated, 31.28 cooled for 96.52 left over. I squeezed in, within 8 seconds, 9 PPCs.

In tabletop, I'd shutdown at 6 PPCs.
20 DHS and 30 threshold at 4 cooling/second, I'd be forced to fire 2 PPCs at a time to avoid shutting down. But we'll squeeze them off 2 then 1 every 4 seconds. Lets begin!
0 seconds fire 2 PPCs = 20 heat (66.67% threshold!)
1 second, cool 4. 16 heat.
2 seconds, cool 4 and fire 1 PPC = 12 + 10 = 22 heat.
3 seconds, cool 4. 18 heat.
4 seconds, cool 4. Fire 2 PPCs = 12 + 20 = 32 = shutdown. Couldn't even make it to 8 seconds!
5 seconds, cool 4. 28 heat.
6 seconds, cool 4. 24 heat.
7 seconds, cool 4. 20 heat.
8 seconds, cool 4, 16 heat. Fire that sixth PPC out of spite = + 10 = 26 heat.

Well damn. Couldn't even make it to six PPCs before a shutdown in the same time frame without ghost heat, let alone the 9 I can do while spitting in the face of ghost heat in MWO!

Actually that was a little rushed. Let's try that again and pace ourselves with heat management.
Trying it again, pacing myself.
20 DHS and 30 threshold at 4 cooling/second, I'd be forced to fire 2 PPCs at a time to avoid shutting down. But we'll squeeze them off 2 then 1 while pacing ourselves. Lets begin!
0 seconds fire 2 PPCs = 20 heat (66.67% threshold!)
1 second, cool 4. 16 heat.
2 seconds, cool 4 and fire 1 PPC = 12 + 10 = 22 heat.
3 seconds, cool 4. 16 heat. If I fire again I'll shutdown. Lets pace!
4 seconds, cool 4. 12 heat.
5 seconds, cool 4. 8 heat. Fire 2 PPCs + 20 heat = 28 heat. ZOMG 93.33% heat! O_O!
6 seconds, cool 4. 24 heat.
7 seconds, cool 4. 20 heat.
8 seconds, cool 4, 16 heat. Fire that sixth PPC now + 10 = 26 heat.

So that's 9 with ghost heat in MWO.
And 6 without ghost heat in Tabletop.
Both with their respective DHS styles and thresholds as dictated by their respective heat systems (MWO and tabletop).

Great thing about it is it doesn't matter what your firing pattern, when you squeeze in 6 PPCs in a heat managed way, you always wind up with the same result in the end. Which means, no matter how we fire them in MWO, we should have identical results so long as we don't hit 100% prematurely.

But that's not the case. It's tampered with using MWO's skill tree, adding an arbitrary percentage which throws things out of whack. Add to this that there's also the rising threshold, which mean nothing is consistent.

What a shame. And you think they're gimped? o.O; So far even when you slap in ghost heat, they allow you superior results. Apparently with the addition of ghost heat, you get 1.5x better results. If you take ghost heat out of the equation, you can easily squeeze in 12 PPCs in that time frame before shutdown.

Edit: Added spoiler to reduce post scroll. (Sorry guys. Math is space consuming.)
Last edit I swear, just tacking more in.

Warhawk demonstration. Basic.

Spoiler

Koniving, on 06 May 2014 - 05:07 PM, said:

From a technical standpoint, being able to simultaineously fire 2 Clan ER PPCs at the same time isn't actually possible in TT. Nor in a straight to literal translation of TT to real time, if the PPCs work as they do in MWO. Now if they built up the heat gradually (as in lore) that's another story, but instant heat spikes at 15 points.. you'd never fire 2 at once in source. For the Warhawk it'd be whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. Which you can just fine now in spite of ghost heat. I actually had 4 ER PPCs on a Banshee and kicked ass with it. And I get only 2/3rds the damage that 4 Clan ER PPCs do, yet I do not get their superior cooling power.

It'd work more like this. Warhawk, 4 ER PPCs, 20 DHS. We're using tabletop. Here we go!
Cooling rate: 4/sec.
Threshold: 30.

Spoiler

0 seconds. Fires 1 ER PPC. WHOOSH!. + 15 heat. (15) 50%.
1 second. -4. 11 heat.
2 seconds. -4. 7 heat.
3 seconds. -4. 3 heat. Fire 1 ER PPC. Whoosh + 15 heat. (18). 60%.
4 seconds. -4. 14 heat.
5 seconds - 4. 10 heat. Pilot's overzealous! Fire 1 ER PPC! Whoosh + 15 heat = 25 heat 83.33%!!! Ammo is cooking!
6 seconds - 4. 21 heat. 70%.
7 seconds - 4. 17 heat. 56.67%.
8 seconds - 4. 13 heat.
9 seconds - 4. 9 heat. Fire 1 ER PPC. Whoosh + 15 heat = 24 heat. 80%!
10 seconds -4. 20 heat. 66.67%.

That's a pretty fiesty order with true DHS. Then again ER PPCs only fired once in a ten second period anyway. But what if you did fire them all at once?

Spoiler

Still tabletop!
0 seconds FIRE ALL FOUR! + 60 heat!
200% threshold! Warning! Shutdown! Ammo explodes!
1 second. -4. 56 heat. 186.67%.
2 seconds - 4. 52 heat. 173.33%
3 seconds - 4. 48 heat. 160%.
4 seconds - 4. 44 heat. 146.67%
5 seconds - 4. 40 heat. 133.33%
6 seconds - 4. 36 heat. 120%.
7 seconds - 4. 32 heat. 106.67%.
8 seconds - 4. 28 heat. 93.33%
9 seconds - 4. 24 heat. 80%.
10 seconds - 4. 20 heat. 66.67%.

Still 66.67% heat after the 10 seconds, but damn you shutdown, waited 10 seconds, blew your ammo. Ouch, man, are you suicidal or what? Not to mention you lost consciousness and fell over. Not the brightest move in the world there, mate.

What about MWO? In fact, lets push all 4 at once without ghost heat!
(Figuring for 20 Clan DHS in MWO, assuming that Clan DHS is Inner Sphere DHS with only 2 slots instead of 3).
Threshold: 76.8.
Cooling: 3.91/sec.

Spoiler

0 seconds FIRE ALL FOUR! + 60 heat!
78.125% threshold! No punishment! 60 damage alpha strike, ZOMG OP!
1 second. -3.91. 56.09 heat. 73.033854166667%.
2 seconds ||. 52.18 heat.
3 seconds ||. 48.27 heat.
4 seconds ||. 44.36 heat.
5 seconds ||. 40.45 heat. 52.669270833333%
6 seconds ||. 36.54 heat.
7 seconds ||. 32.63 heat.
8 seconds ||. 28.72 heat. 37.395833333333%(Remember how this was 93.33%?)
9 seconds ||. 24.81 heat.
10 seconds ||. 20.9 heat. 27.213541666667%(Remember how this was 66.67%?)

So sorry bud, it ain't happening. That'd just be insane and pretty stupid even for PGI's track record. I hate ghost heat as much as anyone. But even without it, if PGI did NOT tamper with the source heat system, you'd STILL never fire all 4 at once.

In fact you'd never even fire 2 at once. So be glad you have what you have.
Here's something to play with if you get bored. It's a heat simulator.

Warhawk and Awesome demonstration, both 'literal conversion' and 'lore conversion' (for the Awesome) which explains how a twin ER PPC firing is possible even within 30 threshold (gradual heat as opposed to MWO's heat spikes). Advanced. This one includes the tabletop penalty system as applied in real time, mech actions, movement, etc (Warhawk).

Spoiler

Koniving, on 04 June 2014 - 04:36 PM, said:

I think part of this is that you might be mistaking the application of TT's threshold penalties by taking the turn-based 'after all math is done, look at the graph and see what has happened' approach rather than looking at their application as a function in real time.
Consider this.
In tabletop could you effectively account for all heat penalties as they happen during the turn? You'd have to go back and reroll everything done; you'd have to do a turn within the turn, find out if anything that was done is still possible, etc.

Lets take that into consideration, the ability to do a turn at a per second basis instead of a 10 second basis, with the ability to modify performance in real time as we traverse through time.
Lets take a Warhawk for example.

4 ER PPCS. We'll just use that. It has 20 DHS, so 40 cooling. In the end it should generate 20 heat at the end of the turn. But does it really? With a running movement that's 22 heat at the conclusion of the turn.
60 heat - 40 = 20 + 2 heat for movement = 22 heat. What really happened, though?
1 Clan ER PPC generates 15 heat.

Warhawk firing sequence.

0 seconds. Mech begins running. Fires 1 ER PPC. + 15 heat. 50% threshold!
1 second. Cooled 4. 11 heat left. Still accelerating.
2 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 7 heat left. Lines up next ER PPC. Finished accelerating.
3 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 3 heat left. Fires 2nd ER PPC. + 15 heat. (18 heat. That's 60% threshold, level 2 shutdown risk if sustained.)
4 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 14 heat left (in the clear; safe). Lines up a new shot.
5 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 10 heat left. (33.33% threshold). Adjusts aim.
6 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 6 heat left. Fires 3rd ER PPC + 15 heat = 21 heat. Level 2 shutdown risk if maintained. Ammunition explosion risk if maintained.
7 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 17 heat left. Note: This is a second or two from becoming a Level 1 shutdown risk to be played out. Mech is beginning to take a turn. Random Calculations done here due to asphalt and slip-hazard.
8 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 13 heat left. Shutdown risk avoided. Lined up aim.
9 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 9 heat left. Fires final ER PPC. + 15 heat = 24. (80% heat). Level 4 shutdown risk if sustained. Ammunition explosion risk if sustained.
10 seconds. Cooled 4 heat. 20 heat left.
Keep in mind this is while running, so there's 2 additional heat not factored in, so 22 heat left. It'd be something like "0.1 heat per second" walking and "0.2 heat per second" running.

Level 2 shutdown risk is rolled. In Tac Ops and advanced rules, heatsinks would have already blown during this. If you shutdown at any point in that, you'd have to wait until 14 points of heat remain before you could start up.

A real time game is a bit more complicated than this, but the joy of a real time game is that it can encompass all of this and more seamlessly into play.

Of course, this is assuming MWO-style ER PPCs.

Assuming lore style ER PPCs as depicted by Smith and Tinker (aka FASA's former founder) game Mechwarrior Tactical Command's introduction trailer and some of the better written books by authors who also played the game and really thought about it (some authors you can just tell, "these guys are just blabbing a story with no idea what they are talking about)... Well I did this with an Awesome 9M earlier today. Enjoy the second version where it's applied.

Spoiler

(For an Awesome 9M who decided to use 2 ER PPCs at once, that'd be an instant shutdown followed by 20 true DHS cooling... 4.0/sec cooling rate. 4 seconds? Lets try it.)

0 seconds: 30 heat. Shutdown.
1 second: 26.
2 seconds: 22.
3 seconds: 18.
4 seconds: 14.
Start up is now possible.

Now, to be fair... That's tabletop proper to real time.
Lore proper (with a competent author; I confess some of them might have written okay stories but didn't even look at the tabletop to make a relationship between the two) to real time is actually...
Pilot wants to fire two ER PPCs.
0 seconds. ER PPCs begin charging. Heat begins to build. +4 heat per ER PPC (8 heat accumulates between now and 1 second).
1 second. 4 heat is cooled. (4 heat remaining). ER PPCs are charged. The shot isn't lined up but it is fired nonetheless. Spike of 16 heat (total; 8 per ER PPC). (20 heat total now). Level 2 shutdown risk, if it stays here (say through firing an autocannon or some other means) it'd be a level 3 shutdown risk.
2 seconds. 4 heat is cooled, leaving 16 heat. But residual heat is still building (3 per ER PPC). 22 heat. (What do you know, it lingered above 20 heat, this just might be a level 3 shutdown risk).
3 seconds. 4 heat is cooled. 18 heat. (Back to level 2; but it has been lingering here).
4 seconds. 4 heat is cooled. 14 heat. If it did shutdown it'd be safe to power up now. The mech would still be largely impaired. This is assuming it didn't lose balance and fall over.
5 seconds. 4 heat is cooled. 10 heat (33.33% of threshold).
6 seconds, 4 heat is cooled. 6 heat. Movement still impaired but it'll finally be fairly responsive.
7 seconds, 4 heat is cooled. 2 heat. Mech is fine.
8 seconds, 4 heat is cooled. 0 heat (plus any movement heat is now cooled). Mech is great! Unless it fell earlier or the pilot lost consciousness.

So yes, if you sustain a heat value for a period of time, you would have the effects of it and everything below it. (For example keep riding 16 heat).
However, in real time it's not "I fired 45 heat of weapons and now I've only got 5 heat on the penalty box."

Edited by Koniving, 07 June 2014 - 10:41 PM.

[Cimarb]

Koniving, on 07 June 2014 - 08:55 PM, said:

So, ultimately every concept, every idea, everything ever spouted about ways to help reduce pinpoint damage and de-meta the game for the Inner sphere to develop a fun experience for all... has been applied exclusively to the Clans.

Well, we won't have to worry about the Clans being overpowered. Even with the almighty targeting computer, they are effectively incapable of pinpoint with anything except the Gauss Rifle. (That's not a bad thing... but it doesn't change Inner Sphere essentially outclassing everything. Is their pinpoint part of the balance?)

I am still hoping these changes are just tests to see if they can balance different manufacturer variants of the weapons. THAT is what I want out of CW - real weapons variants that depend on what planets you hold.

[Homeless Bill]

Gauss Rifles

Sigh. This is just getting ridiculously sloppy. Sure, it solves one weapon combination. Why not just tie this all in to Ghost Heat instead of making a million weird, arbitrary rules?

Not that it matters anyways. It won't be 3xGauss or 4xGauss. It's going to be 2xGauss + 2xERPPC. That's 50 points of pinpoint damage plus another 10 spread around. Or 2xGauss + AC/20 + ERPPC. Or whatever.

Why are there so many rules that are so damned easy to dance around??

ERPPC

Reasonable. Better than full pinpoint damage and better than nerfing it to 10 damage and killing the lights.

LBX

Sure. Whatever. Sounds good.

LRM Minimum Range

Sounds good.

Edited by Homeless Bill, 07 June 2014 - 09:59 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Hahahahaahahahahahaahahaahahahahaha.



I'm glad I haven't put any money into the Clan packs. This is going to be hilarious. They're getting all the nerfs while the IS stuff will just be walking around laughing as they smash their faces.