793 replies to this topic

[Heffay]

CyclonerM, on 05 June 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

It appears clear to me that MWO has the best-looking 'Mechs, but MW:LL has the best looking maps..

They seem awfully barren to me. I mean, I get that they can only use a fraction of the polys that MWO does, but the missing elements make them seem very unrealistic.

I mean, look at HPG Manifold or Tourmaline. They are barren planets, but has FAR more stuff going on that even the most complicated MW:LL map.

And just watch some of the recent March videos that have been put up, and then compare that with *any* game play video from MWO. The client side detection in MW:LL leads to tons of rubber banding, the animations are worse than even the Dire Wolf pre knee IK fix, and... really I could go on, but I don't want people to think MW:LL is *bad*. It's not. It's fantastic for what it is, and it well deserved the mod of the year awards it got. But as a professional polished product, it falls *far* short of what MWO gives us.

Only the most jaded Islander would pretend otherwise, and even then the bitterness probably burns their mouth saying it.

[Kh0rn]

Well for a team of guys with no funding and doing it in there spare time as compared too PGI who has tons of cash rolling in a dev team and many other support. The MWLL delivered a more immerse game into the BT universe. more simulation and military tactics , varied assets, closer detail too electronics , emphasis on role warfare, attention too balance, Tons of maps with locations that fit the BT universe then most fought on MWO which most of those types of worlds were rarely fought on. And something like HPG Manifold would break that since the IS could not afford too loose HPG grids as they could not repair them. The mech animations may not be the best but that is because they had no mech code build into the cryengine 2 thus had too do the best with a tank model. However the fact that mechs have 3 different types of movement animations for walk jog and sprint, They have 4 different start up sounds for each weight class including their own foot steps. kills MWO's single simply sped up or down animation. The planets are not expansive enough too confined and blandly set out. Also probably due too the lack of immerse game modes too actually force players too attack and defend key points. Most battles took place on Earth like settings with very few being fought on alien like terrain planets. MWLL goes as far as if even Assault mechs enter swamp lands there speed is heavy reduced as its stated larger mechs suffered in swamp terrain. The radar system works like a radar. Unable too transmit data unless that unit has a C3 computer build in. Light mechs now with vast open maps can before the roles of light mechs. Mechs also have the IK system build in which MWO removed. Hit detection is a little bugged on 1 or 2 chassis but the fact that people with 280 ping can hit light mechs and reg is a perfect show that the hit detection while far from finished is better. MWLL had alot going for it. there is an entire list of features and fixes that never made it too the final Beta. MWLL is for those who want a closer too BT more simulated feeling MWO is more about customizing, Arena shooter type gameplay. They cater for two different crowds. MWLL was build probably not too be the best visual but it sure as hell feels more mechwarrior then MWO Graphics don't make a game. If MWO went back too its origins of closed beta feeling I would see it in a more positive light but they strayed very far from it hence why the bitter response too the company for doing what they doing.

http://imgur.com/a/Sf0ZF


Remember also MWLL was never finished its still in Beta form.

Edited by Kh0rn, 05 June 2015 - 02:35 PM.

[Rebas Kradd]

Kh0rn, on 05 June 2015 - 02:08 PM, said:

The MWLL delivered a more immerse game into the BT universe. more simulation and military tactics , varied assets, closer detail too electronics , emphasis on role warfare, attention too balance, Tons of maps with locations that fit the BT universe then most fought on MWO which most of those types of worlds were rarely fought on.

More simulation and military tactics? You mean the "twenty minutes of walking and two minutes of fighting" dynamic that I see on a TON of these videos?

MWLL is a hit with the hardcore sim crowd because it markets itself to that crowd and is known almost exclusively by that crowd. I can guarantee you that it would not have such a high aggregate reputation if it were marketed to the mainstream gamer, much less financially dependent on him. MWO made certain choices that are frustrating to me, like dumbing down its graphics and building claustrophobic maps that get players to the action quickly, but they did it for the sake of appealing to as many gamers as possible. There's reasons why they changed course and decided not to rely solely on the Founders for support.

In my opinion, 95% of MWLL's superiority lies in its gamemode design and the wide-open maps that go with it. It's definitely the part that's better than MWO's obvious placeholder gamemodes, and it counts for a lot. But in other areas, MWO is definitely the better product.

Also, as has been repeatedly stated, MWLL never even got a chance to have its balance tested, because customization was never allowed. Had it been tested, I wonder if the same competitive crowd that's shredded PGI would be shredding Wandering Studios.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 05 June 2015 - 03:05 PM.

[Kh0rn]

But why stray away from what was already considered great. CB was great I loved playing it an so did many others. They have done very little too immerse you in the BT universe. Mechs no longer forfil roles as intended. The total freedom of mech lab has broken down the balance which was already set over the 30 years of its creation. And if you pay close attention too the vids Those or "events" Set up too replicate a skirmish battle. I.E planning on assets too deploy , tactics on how too approach the enemy very very different from the pub games which you can drop in and out on the fly at your choice. These games the event games are build on battle groups with battle value, tactics before hand and of course initial recon of the area before simply rushing towards enemies positions. Its slower pace and less action focused but when the action does go down its one hell of a battle. But like I said MWO caters towards the instant action arena shooter while MWLL caters towards a more war like aspect of full scale deployment. PGI could of thrown in some new killer game modes too make it interesting. The fact they delayed CW for a full year too only bring us 2 maps and 1 game mode is just not on. Its Assault on a larger scale lacking any depth or variation between planet and planet which each them self hold no value at all. MWLL mechlab was 95% finished and ready too enter its beta testing phase. It was build on a restrictive system that while allowed you too customize your mechs it ensured you kept the mech in the same role as that variant was created too do. Emphasizing on the role that mech was build for. As for a beta in it self the dev team comprised of mostly fans with only 2 being hired from Crytek proved that you don't need cash too make a good game you need the drive and passion and while the game ain't the best looking it sure as hell showed some really passion for the BT universe, A lengthily and positive continuation through years which held a lot of fixes , patches and content. MWLL team knew very well that total freedom of the mech lab would cause major balance issues as it does in MWO hence why they were working with a more restrictive system. So when released it could be balanced in a shorter space of time. MWLL really went for detail in terms of game play , sound and feeling. Mechanics of how weapons worked, electronic systems functioned, role warfare that even in late game when the large assets are deployed the lighter mechs are still viable for the roles they were created for head bob , correct Jump jet system , a better worked heat scale system etc. Sure the animations were not great , sure the mechs themself don't look the best, But for those Graphics don't make a game. They hit the gameplay aspect pretty well. The animations and mechs themself were in a constant state of fixing. With updates done too the huds , animation of the legs, variants , over all scale and feel , sound and basis of knowing the difference between hopping from a light too an assault. But at the end of the day their will be those who like MWO more then MWLL and the other way around. They are created too cater for two different crowds and all we have is too just show people that there is another Mechwarrior game for those too try if they would like too. I was the top tier Atlas pilot for MWO I played the game right back in the early days and CB had me hooked. The detail, the feel , sound , repair and rearm, convergence , knock downs the IK system I enjoyed it even despite its issues it just felt more mechwarrior back then. And while I no longer play MWO I still am around watching the game still hoping it strives back in the right direction too a game they described as a thinking mans shooter. So I have not abandon the game fully as many others who either made the switch or stopped playing they just hoping for what was promised in the first place.

Edited by Kh0rn, 06 June 2015 - 02:03 AM.

[Kh0rn]

Pic of the day. An outpost stationed on a moon with a Union class dropship busy off loading equipment for the battle raging across it.

[Gremlich Johns]

One significant point of better - MW:LL had knockdown which prevented the impunity of the lights as evidenced in MW:O (and also allowed destruction of elements in the environment). Working with Crytek2, the MW:LL guys have done way better with less. In fact, one of the guys from the MW:LL team is the senior Crytek3 dev at Cloud Imperium Games.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 07 June 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[Heffay]

Gremlich Johns, on 07 June 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

One significant point of better - MW:LL had knockdown which prevented the impunity of the lights as evidenced in MW:O (and also allowed destruction of elements in the environment). Working with Crytek2, the MW:LL guys have done way better with less. In fact, one of the guys from the MW:LL team is the senior Crytek3 dev at Cloud Imperium Games.

Impunity of lights? Nobody thinks lights are OP in MWO. If you add knockdowns, you're going to have to find other ways to significantly buff lights.

[Kh0rn]

a good few of them are too powerful most notable are the firestarter and spider, Scan through the forums and player base ask the questions an you will get the answers. The fact a 6 small pulse Firestarter has better sustainable DPS then a heavy mech is utterly ******** but it really boils down too the really badly done HSR that is causing these mechs too survive far beyond what it was intended. Lights could have a far more interesting role if PGI would of created that as part of there game far back but there Pillars became obsolete and threw it clean out the window.Knockdowns should of been kept from the start altho majorly rebalanced. If you really think no one thinks lights are Op you are horribly mistaken. While not all of them are hence the clan ones a good part of them are. Firestarter should be a specialist mech for incendiary work and disruption among supply lines. but since this game has zero game modes for that reason lights now are doing things they were never build for. Its another failure of PGI too create a immerse game that could of offered the roles of proper scouts and roles too the light mechs. But MWO is a minimal viable product.

[Heffay]

Kh0rn, on 07 June 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

a good few of them are too powerful most notable are the firestarter and spider, Scan through the forums and player base ask the questions an you will get the answers. The fact a 6 small pulse Firestarter has better sustainable DPS then a heavy mech is utterly ******** but it really boils down too the really badly done HSR that is causing these mechs too survive far beyond what it was intended. Lights could have a far more interesting role if PGI would of created that as part of there game far back but there Pillars became obsolete and threw it clean out the window.Knockdowns should of been kept from the start altho majorly rebalanced. If you really think no one thinks lights are Op you are horribly mistaken. While not all of them are hence the clan ones a good part of them are. Firestarter should be a specialist mech for incendiary work and disruption among supply lines. but since this game has zero game modes for that reason lights now are doing things they were never build for. Its another failure of PGI too create a immerse game that could of offered the roles of proper scouts and roles too the light mechs. But MWO is a minimal viable product.

Look at the queues. People gravitate towards what they perceive to be the most powerful mechs. If lights were the most powerful AND the cheapest to boot, the queue would be non-stop lights.

And no, a 6SPL firestarter doesn't have more sustained DPS than a heavy. Any heavy can run the same loadout with more heatsinks, additional weapons, etc.

Lights do have a scouting role in MWO. They find out where the enemy is, put up the UAVs, rain down arty strikes, and harass from the rear. Role Warfare exists in MWO, despite your claims to the contrary. So does Information Warfare. You may not see it used as effectively in the pug queues, but they are definitely there in organized drops.

[B0oN]

MW:LL>MW:O, stop cherrypicking aspects and take in the whole "pictures" .

[Kh0rn]

You would seem ore light mechs if not for the system for 3/3/3/3 at the moment. maybe not at this date any more since they quirk system has been shifting left right and all over the place. Maps are too small for proper recon. All mechs have a C3 already build in them rendering relaying target info a waste of time if a medium can do the same job. Information warfare is lacking hugely in the game compared too MWLL where the entire combat system is build towards more of a military environment. Lights mechs in MWLL are far more vulnerable but have a much larger role too play. As most of them are geared with a C3 allowing for multiple targeting information too be shared on the fly, They also are used for hit and fade operations too cease and take control of out posts, They can guide in coming Arrow missiles, give targeting co-ordinates too long tom tanks in the field, and provide the speed too move from out post too out post taking and holding assets which is key too keep each side functioning. MWLL's use of light mechs goes far beyond that of MWO. MWO is simple light mech spots enemy regroups and then attacks. That's its job every other mech can arty strike an air strike , other mechs can also rely information. There is no real point for light mechs in MWO until they change the combat system , role warfare and game modes. MWO is based around a med scale arena shooter. Majority of players in this game favor the MWLL combat model of how mechs are fighting an working minus the tanks. If MWO simply listen and looked at the MWLL combat system prehaps less people would be knocking the game for what it is. Then again those from MWLL keep it too ourself and this forum is purely too make players aware that MWLL is still active and if any one wishes too join in the game its up too then there opinions are there own as much as yours is your own and mine is my own. You prefer MWO that's great but we believe MWLL was the true game too follow on the previous titles that sadly will never be finished unless PGI losses the license.

http://mwomercs.com/...60#entry4488977

[Heffay]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2015 - 08:16 AM, said:

You would seem ore light mechs if not for the system for 3/3/3/3 at the moment.

I can only reply to one sentence of yours at a time, until you learn paragraphs. So I'll pick this one.

The light queue is already under represented. If not for the 3/3/3/3 system, you'd see even *less* of them. Some people play them for the fast queue times that would ordinarily stick with mediums or heavies. If you're grinding , then a hero light with premium time is the perfect scenario.

[Kh0rn]

This is a forum not a english class so don't bring that in here. Hence why people play so little Cause there is no real reason too use the mechs no roles for them too perform except too pump out the fire starters or spiders who have the dicey hit boxes and great firepower. MWLL provides Lights with far more roles too perform and thus making them a usable asset in all games. PGI has failed too capture role warfare even in community warfare its just assault on larger scale. Same two gates brought down too take out the same orbital defense cannon. With the same top tier variants being deployed with little too no variety. But that goes back too another topic about the total free mech lab being the issue. But that is another topic all in it self. End of the day its pretty clear too see most players do prefer the MWLL gameplay all PGI had too do was look and learn. They started off great in close beta an then just went down hill. Also english is not my main language its like asking you too speak Afrikaans and knowing what words go where and in which way so please don't bring that crap into here. And too make life more simple if you don't like MWLL then don't comment on it. I am not sure if you even played the game at all. We are here too support the game and people are entitled too their opinions. whether it sits with you or not.

Edited by Kh0rn, 08 June 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[RedDragon]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2015 - 11:26 AM, said:

Also english is not my main language its like asking you too speak Afrikaans and knowing what words go where and in which way so please don't bring that crap into here. And too make life more simple

And here I thought paragraphing was basically the same in every language
Point is: it makes your text more easily readable and may make people actually read it instead of thinking "Woah, wall of text, nope!"
Also, it would help if you'd differentiate between to and too, because using too all the way makes you sound like you have a funny accent (at least in my head)
http://www.grammar-m...used/too_to.htm

[Kh0rn]

Well its well known SA folk do have a funny accent but I will try and remember the too and to story I get mixed up by that a lot. The point I make is people who enjoy the game this is your forum and if you don't like it well then why post here I am the only Community officer here running this thing too keep people interested. So far we have had a great player base increase over the last few months. We just want people too know " hey there is another mechwarrior game that is different if you wanna try it." If you have a problem with a person on here who white knights about MWLL or MWO take it too them. I have had a lot of experience with MWO I still hold the highest damage record for the Atlas too date and still hold the title of top Atlas pilot. I'v seen the game in its glory back then and I see it in its shadow of today. But I let people who like the game carry on playing it. While I now fully support MWLL as I became very disappointed with the lack of effort behind MWO

Edited by Kh0rn, 08 June 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Heffay]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2015 - 11:40 AM, said:

We just want people too know " hey there is another mechwarrior game that is different if you wanna try it."

It seems to me that you want to disparage MWO in order to make MW:LL look better.



That doesn't make a compelling argument though. It just makes you look petulant. Disparaging MWO isn't going to make MW:LL look any better.

[Kh0rn]

Well you did start this. Could of just kept it too yourself all I was doing was posting updates and other people pitched in there own Opinions. We are just approaching those who are disgruntled by MWO and are looking for something else. Towards us its the better game but for others MWO is better like I said caters for two different crowds. But the majority of the community are not really happy with the way MWO is and why they pitch there ideas too help solve problems PGI does need too jack it up tho. Cause they proved back in CB they could do it. But why they went down hill. Well I guess we won't know the real answer too that. Or why they shut down MWLL.

[Heffay]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2015 - 12:19 PM, said:

Or why they shut down MWLL.

That old trope again? Seriously, this is getting ridiculous. I get it that you hate MWO for whatever reason. But to continue to put out completely discredited tinfoil hat theories like that just makes your opinions about the games that much more suspect.

[Kh0rn]

They did shut it down they met with the Dev leaders Criminal and Kamikaze and settled it that MWLL would not longer continue its production. If you don't like the game that is fine but we do so lets just leave it at that and let me get on with supporting the forum post for new comers with the info they need too play. And I don't hate the game I am disappointed of how it turned out it was great back in the day. And if ever it went back too the way it was I would be more then happy too come back. But in its current state its just not the game for myself and the others who loved it for what it was. We have already received a lot of abusive emails from MWO players telling us too stop supporting MWLL. MWO community is not out the clear end either. All I do here is keep the post going with pictures ,events, details or help needed regarding MWLL. If you have a problem with a guy who comes in and says MWLL > MWO take it too that person.

[Heffay]

Kh0rn, on 08 June 2015 - 12:34 PM, said:

If you have a problem with a guy who comes in and says MWLL > MWO take it too that person.

So wait, you're allowed to say MWLL > MWO all you want on this public forum, but if someone wants to say MWO > MWLL they have to take it to private message to the person who made the original comment?

Not sure you understand how forums work.