106 replies to this topic

[Almond Brown]

Diomed, on 12 June 2014 - 05:21 AM, said:

If the 'meta' makes you angry blame PGI, not the players running it. If LRMs make you angry, again, it's PGI's fault. We did not make this game, we only play it. This is the one case where it is literally true that you should, "hate the game, not the player."

LOL! That is hilarious. You make it sound like PGI could ever please everyone. LOL!

Give 2 players the same knife to fight with and the loser will complain his was duller.

Players "are" and "will always be" the true scourge of any Game Community, as it is they who make up that Community.

[Wispsy]

Jun Watarase, on 11 June 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

The comp scene has a terrible reputation precisely because of the way some competitive players behave, and thats never going to change unless their behaviour changes.

Well if you are going to massively generalize and attribute a load of things non competitive/"competitve" only because they signed up to an open tournament not because they have any chance of competing, players behaviour to the "competitive players and clans" as a whole then that would be why they have a terrible reputation. There are all kinds of people on all edges of the fence. What you are doing is basically the same as racism or sexism specifically to give people bad names by spreading rumours and half truths as if they are facts every single member of the competitive scene follows like it is some kind of cult.

[Almond Brown]

Technoviking, on 12 June 2014 - 05:53 AM, said:

While I completely agree with your thought, this is the most unrelated thing... in our game, everyone is someone trying to shoot the other person in the head. There's no moral ambiguity. We're just discussing best gun type.

Sadly the only solution would be the 1 (same) Gun for all. We also all know that would be simply bogus...

Why does anyone think that MWO can somehow be different than every other game before it?

It has a Player base too. No Dev will ever please "everyone". It is fact.

If you wish to change that fact, then build a game that "everyone" will have no choice but to like, except, of course, if they enjoy variety in their games.

[CeeKay Boques]

NextGame, on 12 June 2014 - 07:01 AM, said:

You guys do realise that there are plenty of ts3 servers specifically for MWO that anyone can jump on and use to play? There has never been a barrier to that.

Sure thing, the point that was be alluded to was that once VOIP is in, Premades and Pugs will suddenly be conversing and hashing things out. Premades will be using TS3, still, and Pugs will still be just talking to themselves. Which isn't a bad thing, but I don't think VOIP is community glue, as some believe.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Wispsy, on 12 June 2014 - 07:20 AM, said:

Well if you are going to massively generalize and attribute a load of things non competitive/"competitve" only because they signed up to an open tournament not because they have any chance of competing, players behaviour to the "competitive players and clans" as a whole then that would be why they have a terrible reputation. There are all kinds of people on all edges of the fence. What you are doing is basically the same as racism or sexism specifically to give people bad names by spreading rumours and half truths as if they are facts every single member of the competitive scene follows like it is some kind of cult.

It's hardly a "cult" when that same behavior is prevalent in the public queue where it actually damages the game's community. More like an "epidemic."

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 June 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Moenrg, on 12 June 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

While I agree with most of what this post says, there is one thing I strongly disagree with. Don't say "GG" or "GGclose" unless you mean it.

Winning 12-0 is not a "GG" for either side, so just shut up and win with humility. I only say that for close games where both sides had a chance.

Or restrict it to "your" Team when you route the other. That is a good point btw, kudo's.

[VanillaG]

lockwoodx, on 12 June 2014 - 05:22 AM, said:

Was it bad player attitudes whom manipulated testing that shaped the game's bad design, or was it bad game design that created bad habits and player attitudes?

Most of the issues that you can be traced back to two things, instance convergence and too must customization on the mechs. When you have a small set of weapons that do FLD pinpoint damage and the others do spread damage it makes it hard to balance the game. It will be interesting to see how the new burst fire Clan ACs work and if they port them to the IS versions.

When you have minimal restrictions in the mech lab you end up with multiple mechs running the same loadouts. Look at the threads about the stock mech matches and see that the underlying mechanics of the game are sound. Chassis that are considered junk in the our custom mech matches actually have utility and roles come through. Where the game starts to have issues is when you start customizing your mech to have as much FLD pinpoint damage you fall into the same issues as the previous Mechwarrior games.

[Creovex]

NextGame, on 12 June 2014 - 07:18 AM, said:

I don't see that anyone is arguing against proper in game voice comms.

However with existing game mechanics if you are too lazy or incompetent to use google to download ts3 and group with up to 3 people and play then it's your own problem if you are playing at a disadvantage.

You could be either oblivious to the points being made or lost in space... You do realize what we keep saying and yet you keep arguing against???

STOP the idiot rants about finding a TS3 server and joining a group... Your solution keeps coming back to A) join a group B ) join a TS server C) blame puggers for not doing exactly WHAT WE DON'T WANT TO DO.... Hence the reason we pug.... I don't want to find people, I just need the functionality to hear those on my team, if they choose, talk when we get dropped together. I could care less about making friends here or trying to get people together...

Edited by Creovex, 12 June 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Technoviking, on 12 June 2014 - 06:38 AM, said:

Not even sure what you're saying here, but I respect your right to say it. Its just that every time someone says "Well we need the player base to change their actions", you've already lost. That's impossible, so we have to move to the next.

I've moved onto "it would be nice if they changed their attitudes", because the community still doesn't realize they "need" to for the overall health of the game.

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 June 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[NextGame]

Technoviking, on 12 June 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

Sure thing, the point that was be alluded to was that once VOIP is in, Premades and Pugs will suddenly be conversing and hashing things out. Premades will be using TS3, still, and Pugs will still be just talking to themselves. Which isn't a bad thing, but I don't think VOIP is community glue, as some believe.

I actually think that once VOIP is in, provided the quality is comparable, you will still see ts3 used for competitive 12v12, but generally it will be in game voice that's used for pubbing except for a few outliers.

I would agree that it's not community glue, there is no glue for this community

[Wispsy]

Jun Watarase, on 11 June 2014 - 09:48 PM, said:

There was one night when i ran into the same 8 man sync drop multiple times per hour, for several hours. They didnt always end up with both premades on the same team, but often enough to give themselves free wins.

I have no idea who you are talking about but it makes little difference. Some people do try and sync drop, very rarely have I seen this from competitive players though. Usually when I see accusations of sync dropping going on, it is 2 or more high Elo teams dropping in the queue. They sit and wait in queue for 5-10 mins, then get in the game. As there is only a very small number of other people who could hope to balance such a game, they will inevitably get in the same drops over and over. Even if they miss each other for a game or two, the long wait times mean they will sync back up again before long. I know that I myself spend longer searching then I do in game. Often I will be on teamspeak with another group in channel and they will get in and play a game and get out before we find one. How am I meant to avoid syncing with any other high Elo team out there if mm is looking for people as close as possible to put in the game.

[Wispsy]

lockwoodx, on 12 June 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

It's hardly a "cult" when that same behavior is prevalent in the public queue where it actually damages the game's community. More like an "epidemic."

Hardly. I know most of the actual competitive players and barely any of them do a single thing on that list. The majority of things listed are from players who are not even in the competitive scene, simply random 4mans and lore clans and forum keyboard warriors.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Wispsy, on 12 June 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Hardly. I know most of the actual competitive players and barely any of them do a single thing on that list. The majority of things listed are from players who are not even in the competitive scene, simply random 4mans and lore clans and forum keyboard warriors.

While I still don't completely agree with this, I'm pleasantly surprised at the slowly changing attitudes and lack of spiteful hatred exhibited from forum regulars in the past who use to respond to constructive posts about the "meta" with little to nothing more than "L2P scrub". Things seems to be moving in a positive direction and I'm sure PGI finally getting around to cleaning up this mess of a game with overdue balance tweaks is also going a long way towards helping change those attitudes.

Hope for sportsmanship and an enjoyable MWO is making a comeback. Kudos to those that are starting to see the big picture.

Edited by lockwoodx, 12 June 2014 - 07:37 AM.

[R Razor]

Wispsy, on 12 June 2014 - 07:34 AM, said:

Hardly. I know most of the actual competitive players and barely any of them do a single thing on that list. The majority of things listed are from players who are not even in the competitive scene, simply random 4mans and lore clans and forum keyboard warriors.

Your anecdotal evidence unfortunately does not trump the in forum and screen shot evidence showing your so called friends spouting trash non stop.

[Wispsy]

R Razor, on 12 June 2014 - 07:51 AM, said:

Your anecdotal evidence unfortunately does not trump the in forum and screen shot evidence showing your so called friends spouting trash non stop.

Which ones? I can think of a couple, but then I can also think of far more then a few people on this forum who are not in the competitive scene who do all this and more...

Also spouting trash was the least of the accusations really...and I have never seen a single game in which absolutely none of the best players in said game ever talk trash, even when called out repeatedly.

Edited by Wispsy, 12 June 2014 - 08:01 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Wispsy, on 12 June 2014 - 07:59 AM, said:

Which ones? I can think of a couple, but then I can also think of far more then a few people on this forum who are not in the competitive scene who do all this and more...

Also spouting trash was the least of the accusations really...and I have never seen a single game in which absolutely none of the best players in said game ever talk trash, even when called out repeatedly.

I've seen plenty of competitive 4 premades and sync droppers chew the ears off of pugs just trying to learn/enjoy the game in public queues. My reply has always been "if you don't want to drop with pugs, go back to 12s where you belong." That shuts them up quickly.

[R Razor]

lockwoodx, on 12 June 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

I've seen plenty of competitive 4 premades and sync droppers chew the ears off of pugs just trying to learn/enjoy the game in public queues. My reply has always been "if you don't want to drop with pugs, go back to 12s where you belong." That shuts them up quickly.

They won't go to 12s because they might lose there and we can't have that. One of the folks I've seen talking trash is posting in this thread as we speak.......no class, no couth and no clue.

[Wispsy]

R Razor, on 12 June 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

They won't go to 12s because they might lose there and we can't have that. One of the folks I've seen talking trash is posting in this thread as we speak.......no class, no couth and no clue.

Then they are not competitive players they are just a random big mouthed 4man...so come on, where is this mountain of evidence against the competitive scene...

Also...there is no other competitive player in this thread but me so far? Is that a thinly veiled jab or do you just count everybody you see in a supposed 4man trash talking as a big part of the competitive scene?

[Tombstoner]

Bigbacon, on 11 June 2014 - 12:37 PM, said:

one thing I do not agree with here is that usregular joes care one bit about TT and the how it fits into the game. I would guess that most really don't know anything about TT or would care even if they did.

we just like mech warrior and playing a fun game.

Ihonestly can't stand the whole idea of trying to compare or make this real time game like TT

It's not about making this game like TT but the game has its roots in the TT mech design system. When PGI ported it over it left many things either broken or simply missing. Things that have consequence for the MWO game. I can clearly see them and other like myself have posted over and over again multiple times foreshadowing issue after issue.

It's like making a computer version of chess but leaving out 2 pawns. a knight and some pieces dont move the same as TT. worse yet is if you move your queen more then 2 times in a row you loose a turn due to over heating. Then telling your rabid forum community of chess fanatics who bought the founders package they are not the target audience.

later during a round of aggressive re-balancing some pieces are given a recharge mechanic. All the while your player community thinks your working on community warfare when in reality they are building OP xianggi versions of classic chess.

[R Razor]

Wispsy, on 12 June 2014 - 08:40 AM, said:

Then they are not competitive players they are just a random big mouthed 4man...so come on, where is this mountain of evidence against the competitive scene...

Also...there is no other competitive player in this thread but me so far? Is that a thinly veiled jab or do you just count everybody you see in a supposed 4man trash talking as a big part of the competitive scene?

If the shoe fits..................

R Razor, on 12 June 2014 - 08:49 AM, said:

If the shoe fits.................

All I'm saying is that some folks that claim to be competitive players, including at least one that has posted in here, have been seen talking trash and in general making their claimed group look like dezgra holes. The LORDs are more guilty than any one group in my opinion, but I've met very few thus far that have claimed to be 1337 competitive players that haven't followed that up with comments like L2P and n00b and much much worse.