116 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

627, on 12 June 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Then... what's the point of carrying 12 ERML in the first place? in TT you don't have chainfire, you could fire every weapon in a turn once and again in the next turn. So you could fire all 12 in one turn in TT (and survive), quiaff? The masakari can fire his 4 PPCs, too.

So it was designed to be able to fire all of them. At least once.

But I think you'll need a good left right combo and then run away. 6ML Jenners can fire 2-3 times before overheating with 10-12 DHS. I guess you could get 4-6 "half-alphas" out with the stock nova, depending on map. That's a fairly big damage potential for a medium.

You could think that.

Alternatively, you could think of them as a backup Arsenal in case the Nova loses an arm. No loss in sustainable firepower.

[Karl Streiger]

627, on 12 June 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Then... what's the point of carrying 12 ERML in the first place? in TT you don't have chainfire, you could fire every weapon in a turn once and again in the next turn. So you could fire all 12 in one turn in TT (and survive), quiaff? The masakari can fire his 4 PPCs, too.

Neither the Nova nor the Warhawk were able to Alpha Strike there whole armament without risking critical heat
- The Nova was able to fire 7 ER-M-Laser without problems or 8 - with low heat burden

but what was more important and the big advantage for arm weapons - the nova was able to fire its arm weapons at better reach - so a target could be targeted by a single arm. or you could go prone - and still have almost its full armament available.

Last not least.... when your enemy did use a nova prime - you always used enough fire power to bring it down at once - the last thing you want was a serious damage Nova with 12 ER-M-Laser where it was obvious that it won't be able to survive the next hits.

And this potential even with Ghost Heat is still existent. OVERRIDE - and fire all 12 Lasers (the override should ensure that you don't shut down before the burn has ended....a 90 dmg kiss good bye

[Blood Rose]

627, on 12 June 2014 - 04:19 AM, said:

Then... what's the point of carrying 12 ERML in the first place? in TT you don't have chainfire, you could fire every weapon in a turn once and again in the next turn. So you could fire all 12 in one turn in TT (and survive), quiaff? The masakari can fire his 4 PPCs, too.

So it was designed to be able to fire all of them. At least once.

No. In TT you most definitely CANNOT fire the 12 ERML's on the Nova Prime and live. Each generates 5 heat and the Nova can only handle 36. 5X12=60-36=24 heat on the overflow. The Nova now needs to roll a 10+ to avoid shutting down. Even if it does manage to avoid shutting down its heat is now so high that it will have a move of 0/0/5 (It has 5 JJ's) and a shooting penalty of +4. If the life support has been destroyed then the pilot will also be taking damage as well. The Warhawk suffers from the same issues with its CERPPC's, albeit not as much as the Nova does.

[MisterPlanetarian]

Scurry, on 12 June 2014 - 04:18 AM, said:

If the table from before was correct,

ISML - 4 heat, 5 damage, 1s burn, 1 ton, 270m range
CERSL - 2 heat, 5 damage, 1s burn, 0.5 ton, 180m range

Exactly, and assuming no ghost heat on small lasers: 24 heat and 60 damage for 12xCERSL. It also frees up room for machine guns/AMS/TC and aditional heatsinks.

[Karl Streiger]

MisterPlanetarian, on 12 June 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Exactly, and assuming no ghost heat on small lasers: 24 heat and 60 damage for 12xCERSL. It also frees up room for machine guns/AMS/TC and aditional heatsinks.

AP and TC MK I plus 22 DHS and 12 ER-Small Lasers.....i love balancing with the intension not to make the same mistakes like in TT....but hey there is also something positve about....you know what happens after the mistakes of the TT Clan Invasion - they invented BattleValue

[101011]

Koniving, on 11 June 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

To note..
Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers are NOT listed under Ghost Heat.
Clan ER Mediums are hotter than Clan MPL. Neg, both give off 5 heat when firing.
I see no reason for Clan ER ML to be under ghost heat, especially with what looks like a 1.25 (1.3) second beam time. This + if ML was 3 heat, ER ML would be 5 heat. Since ML is 4 heat, ER ML would then be 6 heat. Your first was correct, 5 heat

Clan ER ML if it follows that pattern would have the same heat as the old MPL, which were deemed too hot to need ghost heat.

I see no reason what-so-ever for us to have to worry about ghost heat.

(I wouldn't be surprised however if Clan MPL did get ghost heat though.) Nope, MPL will not have ghost heat.

Actually, according the weapons.xml file which was posted in a thread (and promptly taken down) yesterday, your information is wrong. I added in the corrections in bolded italics. Granted, this information may be out of date, but I would still be fairly confident that it will not be changed.

Edited by 101011, 12 June 2014 - 04:41 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 12 June 2014 - 04:11 AM, said:

My fire groups
1 TIC - Left Arm in Chain
2 TIC - Right Arm in Chain
3 TIC - all 6 in the Left Arm
4 TIC - all 6 in the Right Arm

- constant beam of 14dmg
or blasting 42 of potential damage with a break of 0.5sec...... that thing will destroy most medium Mechs in less then 3 seconds. Or yo take the 12 ERSLAS version and kill Mediums at reduced range in 1 second

this groups, + a group for the 4 MG's ^^

[Karl Streiger]

Lily from animove, on 12 June 2014 - 04:51 AM, said:

this groups, + a group for the 4 MG's ^^

hm ok but you have to reduce the number of Lasers....maybe only 10? for 4 MGs and 1ton of ammo - of course 17 dhs will be sufficient anyhow

[Kodiak Jorgensson]

Scurry, on 11 June 2014 - 11:36 PM, said:

There'll be a fair bit of rage if the Nova gets something like that before the Awesome.

there's always rage when something gets something other the other chassis, and besides omni pod quirks might open the door to chassis specific quirks for battlemechs AWS-8Q for example should get cooling bonuses.

[Clit Beastwood]

If I wind up changing my mind and buying clan mechs... I'm definitely going 12 flamers

[Lily from animove]

Karl Streiger, on 12 June 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

hm ok but you have to reduce the number of Lasers....maybe only 10? for 4 MGs and 1ton of ammo - of course 17 dhs will be sufficient anyhow

Well for the beginnign I will go:

[NOVA-PRIME]: 12xCERML, 4xCMG, Clan XL250, DHS

the 15 DHS are enough for 2 Volleys of 6 ERMLaser if Masterskill is reached (66 heat treshold). If it is still too hot, I gonna slowly donwgrade 2 CERML for 2 CERSL and add one heatsink for the saved ton.

can't wait to get home and see the quirks of the variants, because basically the S variants arms are inferior to the Prime variants Arms, and the S variants Torsi are superior to the Prime ones.

So I wonder if those quirks: only work if the whole mech only uses its variants pods.
What quirks the S variant offers compared to the Prime variant.

Edited by Lily from animove, 12 June 2014 - 05:38 AM.

[Harotak]

MisterPlanetarian, on 12 June 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Exactly, and assuming no ghost heat on small lasers: 24 heat and 60 damage for 12xCERSL. It also frees up room for machine guns/AMS/TC and aditional heatsinks.

Considering that the MWO IS SLAS generates twice as much heat as in TT Battletech, I would be shocked if they keep the 5dmg/2heat for the clan ERSLAS.

Even if they do double the ERSLAS heat to 4, a 60dmg alpha for 48 heat is some serious firepower. Add 4x MG and I think the Nova will be a VERY dangerous mech.

Edited by Harotak, 12 June 2014 - 06:23 AM.

[Madw0lf]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 07:12 PM, said:

According to Smurfy's ghost heat chart, a 12 med laser alpha will generate 101.6 heat. This does not include the extra heat for ER med lasers.

If Clan ER med lasers will have the same ghost heat penalties, then the Nova Prime is going to fry itself with one alpha.

Even with the expanded heat scale (which only goes to +50 heat), the pilot will hurt himself, the mech will suffer damage, and the mech will automatically shut down. That would still leave another 20+ points of heat beyond that.

I say we allow mechs to blow up if they reach a super high level of heat. If ever there was a mech hot enough to Stackpole itself, then the Nova Prime would be it.

Unless PGI makes an exception for the Nova Prime, there are going to be new pilots who fire an alpha and have to sit shutdown for who knows how long it takes to dissipate all that heat. That doesn't sound like much fun. In the heat of battle (heh), pilots can easily make a mistake and fire all their weapons at once.

You can do things other than alpha ya know. Hard concept I understand, but thats why theres six (Yes thats right folks SIX!!!) different groups to put your weapons on

L2P logically

Not that I wouldnt do it once or twice for the lulz....

[Koniving]

101011, on 12 June 2014 - 04:39 AM, said:

Actually, according the weapons.xml file which was posted in a thread (and promptly taken down) yesterday, your information is wrong. I added in the corrections in bolded italics. Granted, this information may be out of date, but I would still be fairly confident that it will not be changed.

Based mine on Sarna and simple math -- which means lore differences. We kinda know what PGI thinks of lore anyway, they seem absolutely convinced that burst firing the ACs is straying from lore (when it can't be further from the truth; it's straying from the 10 second summary of tableshot which is could never be a 'per shot' rating as it's impossible to encompass the many variants of AC, pulse laser, laser, etc. without adding a 500 page book to the rules just on how each individual weapon works. There are 44 Unique Variants of Medium Laser -- standard medium laser, not clan, not pulse, just standard. And that's out of 60+ total variants; some of which are corporate knockoffs of others with mechanical failures).

It's likely during testing some people thought weapons were too hot (like the common craze of people wanting ER PPCs to be colder despite how it has over 600 more meters of effective range).
That or perhaps regular medium lasers will be going back to 3 heat for the first time since before I ever got into the closed beta. That'd be a step in the right direction as sooner or later, they would be able to reduce heat thresholds without much fuss.

[Diablobo]

Koniving, on 11 June 2014 - 07:29 PM, said:

To note..
Inner Sphere Medium Pulse Lasers are NOT listed under Ghost Heat.
Clan ER Mediums are hotter than Clan MPL.
I see no reason for Clan ER ML to be under ghost heat, especially with what looks like a 1.25 second beam time. This + if ML was 3 heat, ER ML would be 5 heat. Since ML is 4 heat, ER ML would then be 6 heat.

Clan ER ML if it follows that pattern would have the same heat as the old MPL, which were deemed too hot to need ghost heat.

I see no reason what-so-ever for us to have to worry about ghost heat.

(I wouldn't be surprised however if Clan MPL did get ghost heat though.)

It would be nice if Clan ER med lasers didn't have to worry about ghost heat. I don't see much use in carrying more than 6 of them anyway. Now ER smalls on the other hand....those could be nasty. IS med pulse range, and med laser damage. If they don't ghost those, there are going to be a lot of Novas boating those and whoever they get behind is toast.

[Trauglodyte]

LordKnightFandragon, on 11 June 2014 - 07:13 PM, said:

Maybe the whole idea is not to alpha strike everything, every shot.

LOL, do you play this game? Alpha striking is an inherent right of the player and must be protected. Heat build up and shut downs are bad coding by PGI and shouldn't be enforced. BOOO HEAT CONTROL!!!

[Chiasson Brinker]

Boating weapons has never worked well for me with the exception of my Orion. Back in Mechwarrior3 days, I tried to boat 13 flamers on a firefly with a max engine. I managed to zigzag up to an Annihilator and fire off an alpha...... Neither mech survived. All that was left afterward was the Annihilator's leg, which comically landed with a thud in the middle of the screen.

[Diablobo]

Blood Rose, on 12 June 2014 - 04:32 AM, said:

No. In TT you most definitely CANNOT fire the 12 ERML's on the Nova Prime and live. Each generates 5 heat and the Nova can only handle 36. 5X12=60-36=24 heat on the overflow. The Nova now needs to roll a 10+ to avoid shutting down. Even if it does manage to avoid shutting down its heat is now so high that it will have a move of 0/0/5 (It has 5 JJ's) and a shooting penalty of +4. If the life support has been destroyed then the pilot will also be taking damage as well. The Warhawk suffers from the same issues with its CERPPC's, albeit not as much as the Nova does.

You're wrong. You can fire them, overheat and shutdown, but you do not die. There is no damage or injury penalty for that much heat. Even if you use your JJ, your max heat will be +29. If you somehow roll high on the shutdown avoid, you won't even shutdown. Sure, the movement and to-hit penalties will really suck, but you are not dead or even damaged in any way.

Edited by Diablobo, 12 June 2014 - 08:47 AM.

[Zervziel]

Kassatsu, on 11 June 2014 - 07:18 PM, said:

People should learn after the first time that it doesn't end well for them.

Then again, I still see 6 PPC stalkers, so what does that say?

It says there aren't enough Wave-Motion Mechs aka 7-ppc battlemasters.

[Trip Hammer]

Diablobo, on 11 June 2014 - 07:16 PM, said:

Oh, yes...of course. That always works. If you tell someone not to do something, they never try it anyway. What fricking world do you guys live in?

The kind that should have consequences for idiotic actions.....including trying to alpha that many energy weapons.