74 replies to this topic

[Almeras]

Edward Mattlov, on 27 June 2014 - 03:00 PM, said:

The Summoner is a splendid mech! If you do not like it, leave it alone and play a different mech.

You sir are right...

or maybe not. I see a mech that has been hit hard but the clan mechlab implementation too MWO and hope to find away to improve the $44 I have sitting in my mechlab while not tottally undoing what PGI have manage to achieve with clan balance.

[Crusbbcc]

I really cant understand the bad feedback about the Summoner/Thor?
It has always been my favourite mech in prior MW games, and, while it is not the strongest mech I pilot, I feel it still is one of the best.
Maybe I was just lucky in the ~ 10 games I piloted it but even though I have only up to 7 basic skills unlocked so far I have a Kill death ratio of around 4:1 in it (my average is 2.65 for all chassis), so, I would say the Thor isnt bad at all.
I think when speed tweak and all skills are unlocked it will really shine.
I just come out of a fight using the D variant with UAC20, 2 ERMLas and 1 ERLLas and killed several surprised Madcats and had the highest match score in that game in a Thor.
I agree it could have more weapon slots and better arm flexibility but its a nice, no, very nice mech!

Give it a chance! Firepower and weapon slots are not the only things that matters!

[DerRattenmann]

Quote

You sir are right...

or maybe not. I see a mech that has been hit hard but the clan mechlab implementation too MWO and hope to find away to improve the $44 I have sitting in my mechlab while not tottally undoing what PGI have manage to achieve with clan balance.

I'm sorry to say this, but that's what you get for blindly buying packages. You simply cannot expect everything in there to be to your liking. That blame goes out to PGI aswell for not sharing any information except the pricetag but finally you took that risk by buying it. The Summoner has never been known for being easy to pilot, not in TT, not in the novels and it is challenging (that means difficult) to pilot in MWO as it should be. But as I wrote earlier, this is a mech that needs to be mastered and that does not mean fully reasearch it, it means comprehend what you chassis and your build can and cannot do and adjust your piloting accordingly. And there are people out there who are doing just this and do great in this thing. To me piloting a Summoner is about overcoming your own and your mechs limits while killing the enemy in the process against all odds. And if this might sound crazy to you, well... I guess Aiden Pryde, Marte Pryde or Nicolai Malthus would agree... and they were all completely sane, were they ? I admit that it is riddled with bad luck though...


And to you PGI:
Keep up the good work! I really like how the clans turned out to be.
If you want to give the Summoner a bit of love, a smaller 6tube missle launcher on the left torso or an incresed heat scale would be much appreciated.
I don't think the jump-capable Timberwolf is much of a problem (though still weird) but I'm afraid the jump mechanics as a whole might need to be looked at.

[Falcrist]

To make the Summoner more popular the TBR-S must be replaced with another configuration. But i don't think this will ever happen.
Anyway, i like my Summoner and i play him

[Vanguard319]

As much as I love my Summoner, I have to agree, that some of PGI's weapon balancing has hurt it's potential. in the case of the Prime, the ER PPC is it's most damaging weapon, instead, we got a joke of a weapon that isn't worth carrying due to the ER large laser being simply better in terms of damage, heat, and weight. (that and you can add a lower arm actuator with the laser.) During the Public Test, I ran my prime as an A and also a C variant, I found the A to be a pretty good build, even with the charge on the Gauss Rifle, but the C's potential as a brawler was hurt by the sheer eternity it took for the Streak SRM 6 to cycle. Sorry, but a seven second cooldown for a weapon meant for close combat will NEVER be viable.

I know the devs are trying to keep weapons balanced, but they didn't give any consideration to how their balancing could effect specific mechs, and out of all the clan mechs, the Summoner gets the worst of it due to the limited tonnage. You can't afford to drop any armor due to having only about 88% coverage to begin with. Though I don't mind the mobility, you can't remove jump jets either. The Summoner's builds were always fairly simple, but built around powerful weapons to compensate for the limited tonnage. The easiest solution therefore is to tweak some of the heavier weapons, The CERPPC should do it's full 15 damage, and the CSSRM 6 should have a shorter cooldown, probably closer to 4.5~5 seconds. UACs are fine as is, but I would suggest when the LBXACs get their fire mode that the slug mode is a single shot, same as the cluster mode, rather than a burst.

If for some reason this is heresy in the eyes of the devs, I would suggest mech quirks to differentiate it from the Timber Wolf, say tougher internals to reflect the standard structure, tighter turning as others have suggested, or perhaps even reinforced legs due to the mech being built with jumping in mind.

Edited by Vanguard319, 28 June 2014 - 02:12 PM.

[Crusbbcc]

I can only repeat myself. The summoner is a great mech!
Just jumping out of a summoner D Cockpit. A clearly lost PUG game, we were at 11:4 (2 of the 4 my kills, 1 Cataphract and one Direwolf if I recall correctly) and I could get it to 11:6 killing a Madcat and a Hunchback before the rest got me and my UAC ammo was depleted...

Edited by Crusbbcc, 28 June 2014 - 03:18 PM.

[Summon3r]

Vanguard319, on 28 June 2014 - 01:52 PM, said:

As much as I love my Summoner, I have to agree, that some of PGI's weapon balancing has hurt it's potential. in the case of the Prime, the ER PPC is it's most damaging weapon, instead, we got a joke of a weapon that isn't worth carrying due to the ER large laser being simply better in terms of damage, heat, and weight. (that and you can add a lower arm actuator with the laser.) During the Public Test, I ran my prime as an A and also a C variant, I found the A to be a pretty good build, even with the charge on the Gauss Rifle, but the C's potential as a brawler was hurt by the sheer eternity it took for the Streak SRM 6 to cycle. Sorry, but a seven second cooldown for a weapon meant for close combat will NEVER be viable.

I know the devs are trying to keep weapons balanced, but they didn't give any consideration to how their balancing could effect specific mechs, and out of all the clan mechs, the Summoner gets the worst of it due to the limited tonnage. You can't afford to drop any armor due to having only about 88% coverage to begin with. Though I don't mind the mobility, you can't remove jump jets either. The Summoner's builds were always fairly simple, but built around powerful weapons to compensate for the limited tonnage. The easiest solution therefore is to tweak some of the heavier weapons, The CERPPC should do it's full 15 damage, and the CSSRM 6 should have a shorter cooldown, probably closer to 4.5~5 seconds. UACs are fine as is, but I would suggest when the LBXACs get their fire mode that the slug mode is a single shot, same as the cluster mode, rather than a burst.

If for some reason this is heresy in the eyes of the devs, I would suggest mech quirks to differentiate it from the Timber Wolf, say tougher internals to reflect the standard structure, tighter turning as others have suggested, or perhaps even reinforced legs due to the mech being built with jumping in mind.

now here are some well thought out suggestions, love the idea of better turning and stronger legs for jumping, this mech was designed for exceptional mobility.... i personally love how the c-erppc works though i would not complain at a full 15 pin point lol

[Drudgewerk]

I'm finding some decent success using this mech in more of a fire support role, direct fire or LRMs depending on variant. Despite the look of the bubble cockpit, which I really don't mind, it offers a fantastic view which makes it easy to see what is going on around you. The guns are somewhat positioned like a Cataphract's, which I've played a fair amount, so it feels somewhat familiar on that score.

The only complaint I have with it is that it handles like a pig, though I only have the basic skills so far, very difficult to get it to dance in and out of cover. It requires a lot of finesse and planning to pilot properly.

For some reason, I can't seem to get the hang of the Timberwolf. The few times I've used it have been dismal failures, but the Summoner seems to be a very good fit for me.

Granted, I'm not skilled enough for competitive play and I pretty much only PUG so that needs to be taken into consideration.

Edited by Drudgewerk, 29 June 2014 - 07:34 AM.

[OznerpaG]

Drudgewerk, on 29 June 2014 - 07:32 AM, said:

The only complaint I have with it is that it handles like a pig, though I only have the basic skills so far, very difficult to get it to dance in and out of cover. It requires a lot of finesse and planning to pilot properly.

every unleveled mech in MWO handles like a pig - once you elite it and get the X2 you'l notice a HUGE difference

[Better Call Saul]

It's probably been suggested before in this thread, but ability to remove jump jets to free up some tonnage? If not give the mech some sort of jump jet related perk? Now that I have mastered the Timberwolf and the Summoner there is nothing this mech can do that is better than the Timberwolf. Cataphract 3D at 70T seems a much better mech....

[PASHA]

All I can suggest at this point is
1) switching the STD structure to ENDO
2) Giving it a JJ quirk that softens impact on landing given that this chassis is made FOR JJs.

Edited by saKhan Zellkai Furey, 30 June 2014 - 07:14 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

I feel like people are missing the point for what this mech is idealy ment to do.

Think of it as a very heavy medium, while many medium mechs outclass it in weaponry, few can touch it's armor, and it has decent speed for a heavy as well.

Use it as a medium harasser, and you'll do fairly well. I will agree it does feel VERY limited with what you can do with it. but it's got mobility over some other heavy's.

[Macksheen]

I think some +perks would be good.

Maybe a + damage in addition to the cooldown benefit on the prime arms?

Maybe some additional torso / arm movement (range and speed?)

I don't want it to be hardpoint upgraded and endo so it becomes a clone - but you could do some fun things to make it better (and it isn't that great).

[Dakkaface]

Thus far, the Summoner is rather disappointing. It has a small number of hardpoints, which makes you want to bring big punchy weapons like big AC's/Gauss PPCs. But with it's JJ's and enormous engine locked, and miniscule armor loadout by default, It doesn't have much room left for weapons after bumping the armor up. With it's low available tonnage for weapons, you'd think to leverage light but powerful clan weapons like ER Meds, ER Smalls and Missiles, but it just doesn't have the number of hardpoints available to make laserboating viable.

Thus far the only viable Summoner builds I've been able to make are all based off the -B pods, because missiles are the only weapons with any punch it can afford to mount.

[smokefield]

the prime variant is too limited in options compared with others, and especcialy compared with timberwolf. unless you switch omnipods the prime is a very gimped mech for its weight imo. I think that all variants, more so the prime variants, shold be viable without switching omni on it.