151 replies to this topic

[Shadowwoe]

From where this CLRM flying faster comes?

As far as i know Smurfty datamines everything from game files on both LRM systems are listed there as flying at 160m/s.

[Noth]

Shadowwoe, on 19 June 2014 - 12:00 AM, said:

From where this CLRM flying faster comes?

As far as i know Smurfty datamines everything from game files on both LRM systems are listed there as flying at 160m/s.

It is simply perceived as faster because the ripple fire makes them appear faster.

Edited by Noth, 19 June 2014 - 12:07 AM.

[ebea51]

LRMs are out there in force because of a few reasons:

1) LRMs are really the only counter to PPC+AC pop-t4arding
2) Clans are brand new and everyone is playing with the new tech while on their new-content-honeymoon
3) Streamfire is COOL

Follow these easy 5 steps to stop being owned by LRMs:
1) Stay in cover
2) Use cover
3) Don't run out, stand out or stay out in the open
4) Bring ECM or stay with team mates that have ECM
5) Bring AMS and/or stay with team mates that have AMS

Follow these simple steps (and perhaps add a touch of intelligence and common sense) and you will find that LRMs are not as big a issue as you (or other people having "problems" with LRMs) think.

[Wolfways]

The performance of LRM's depends not only only the firer but also, and imo more so, on the piloting ability of the target. If LRM's are working well for you then good for you, but it's not because LRM's are OP or even good. It's because you're fighting players who suck at piloting.
I'm not a high ELO player and LRM's are almost worthless against me even in a 53kph Stalker, and i don't use AMS or ECM. I think i'm a good pilot but my "gunnery skills" let me down.

Just about every player insists that you need T2 equipment (TAG, Artemis) to even make LRM's viable. Can you imagine what it would be like if you put lasers and AC's on your mech and everyone said it was useless due to (insert various amounts of counters) and you need to use T2 equipment (ERlasers and UltraAC's) instead, and even then players could simply sidestep behind cover to avoid your shots? The forums would go mental!

LRM's are a weak weapon, and are even worse in direct-fire where just about every other weapon is better.

[GreyGriffin]

On a more practical note, the option exists to just wait out the massive LRM 40 spam from the huge number of Timber Wolves on the field.

[Gambino87]

http://mwo.gamepedia.com/AMS

Quote

Theory of Operations

VS Long Range Missiles
If a LRM is moving towards you at a speed of 120m per second and you are standing still, it will take them 1.67 seconds to reach you once they are with in range of the AMS. In that time, the AMS will lock onto and destroy 3 missiles, expending 27 ammo to do so. In this case seven Allied AMS would be able to shoot down a LRM20 volley.

It makes no difference whether four LRM 5s or a single LRM 20 is fired at you. Missiles that are fired in a series of volleys will give AMS more time to destroy more missiles. If you are running away from the LRM launcher, your AMS will have more time to destroy incoming missiles. If a LRM is moving at 120m / sec at and you are stationary, the AMS will ideally shoot down 3 LRMs in that volley. Therefore, 7 Allied AMS should be able to shoot down an entire LRM20 volley.

Alright, soooo. AMS works great versus clan LRMs. But I'll admit, a properly boated IS mech will melt your face. On a Stalker-3H you can equip 50 LRMs with NO ghost heat. (2x LRM 20 and 2x LRM 5).

That said, a 50 volley against a Kit Fox's 3x AMS will still only lose 9-12 missiles at best, dealing 41.8 - 45.1. In fact it would take 17 AMS's so completely destroy that volley before it hits you.

ANYWAYS, my point. OP, before you go complaining about how you suck fighting against spotters/LRM try these:

• Take cover. Find out where cover exists
  
• Maybe play a chassis that can chase off spotters
  
• Learn what you're complaining about (Stalkers, Awesome and Highlanders suffer HUGE ghost heat penalties for doing their 50/60 volleys)
  
• Equip AMS to counters the mechs that use LRM for augmented dps
  
• Use ECM
  
• Orrrrrr give up and be a team player and be a spotter for your teams LRM boats!
  
• Learn how to missile boat yourself http://themittani.co...g-your-rainboat(It's a little outdated on new chasis's but the BLR-1S is probably the best boat there is right now because of ghost heat)

Before they buffed LRMs no one used them. Now people do. Which means people will complain. LRMs are important in BattleTech because it's freaking the year 3050 and indirect missile support is completely plausible. Lets complain about weapon systems people don't use now. (Pulse lasers?) If we are going to complain about LRMs lets look at what the chasis's can actually do with them.

EDIT: Thanks zortesh for pointing out the ghost heat thing in the BLR-1S and the Stalker 3H.

Edited by Gambino87, 19 June 2014 - 05:45 AM.

[Xune]

Silverlance, on 18 June 2014 - 01:51 PM, said:

I know I'm not the only one. But the amount of LRMs before Clan Mechs was bad. Now it's three times as bad. And something needs to be done to quell the amount of mechs allowed into a match that can boat LRM systems and 2-3k+ rounds of ammo.

nop thank you

[Jakob Knight]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 08:51 PM, said:

LRMs are relatively tough to use but easier than, say, CERLLs to keep on target. They offer incredible bang for the buck and the ability to kill your enemy without ever exposing yourself to fire. Spare us all the 'LRMs should be even tougher so don't complain/LRMs are elite' speech. I'm boating them on my Timber Wolf to more easily and quickly max out basics - because they load up damage and kills almost regardless of any other factors. They are feast/famine however, as bad maps and bad teams make them nearly useless, while a moderately competent or ideal selection of both make them super-powerful.

CLRMs though travel too quickly and drill too tightly. Not a lot, but a little.

As opposed to Gauss Rifles, PPCs, Autocannon, and Lasers, which are always superpowerful regardless of map or team (and despite what you say, it's just as easy to keep a CERLL on a target, considering you don't need a lock-on beforehand nor need to keep it on target for as long. This is especially true if you happen to be within the LRM minimum range, so don't try to bring up the whole 'not exposing yourself to fire' excuse...that is well and truely balanced by that minumum range already). I see you did not read my post all the way through. You would be just as or even more hard-hit if the mech you were facing was carrying multiples of any other weapon than an LRM battery, and have almost no countermeasures available against them. The difference is that you have the option to totally neutralize an LRM mech by tactics and equipment, precisely because of the restrictions on them that balance their ability to fire indirectly, and even if the firing mech isn't exposing itself to fire, one of its teammates -is-, so it's a wash. A team that relies on a few spotters to boat LRMs will quickly find itself down those spotters with very little damage for it, and then they are rolled over when the enemy enters their minimum range and they have little or no ability to fire those LRMs.

The simple truth is that people complain about LRMs because they are different weapons that require different tactics, and they only want one....find a target and click on it till it's dead. They don't want to have to think about how to fight (note the ongoing cry for the devs, not the players, to come up with something to defeat jump-sniping), and LRMs require a pilot to think about how to deal with and use them.

And here we are with another post, asking the -devs- to fix a problem instead of the players using their heads. LRMs have more than enough counters to balance their strengths, if the players use those counters. The problem is 'I don't want to use those counters, because that isn't fun'. With the inclusion of the Radar Deprevation module, they are, if anything, now an underpowered weapons system and need to be buffed. However, suggesting that somehow the devs should step in an limit an entire -team- to only using a small number of LRMs while leaving the preferred weapon of the poster (indeed all other weapons in the game) free-choice is simple bias and not balance. The OP should think before making knee-jerk posts like this and so many others that are based not on considered analysis but a personal opinion that MWO should only be Counterstrike with tanks or Rock-em-Sock-em-Robots.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 19 June 2014 - 02:49 AM.

[Hoffenstein]

I only have one gripe regarding the LRM's at this point: Screen Shake. Remove the screen shake or reduce it significantly and they'd be great, but as is Clan LRM's have a huge advantage in completely locking down your targets ability to return fire (because they can't see).

[Bromineberry]

Abivard, on 18 June 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Strangely I have seen an almost complete absence of LRM's since the patch.

I have found them to be rendered almost totally useless unless you encounter very new players.

I think it really depends on the ELO lvl, when you play (US <> European players) and on if you pug or play with a group. It'S hard to get many pugs to simply rush the boats...too many scarycats. I personally see LRMs a lot, and with a lot I mean, A LOT! Especially now with all the Timberwolves around.

I know, LRM are hard to balance, because they have so many stuff, that takes an influence on them: ECM, BAP, TAG, NARC, AMS and several modules. It's quite a complicated system.

Right now, there are a few things, that really bother me

- I always read about "just take cover, br4! L2p!". Taking cover is a good idea...but you need damn high cover, for not beeing hit. You can hug the walls on Canyon Network all you want, you will still get hit most of the time. LRMs are not the dive bombers they once went, but they still come in pretty steep.

- AMS is just annoying. Even with all the LRM around, I unequipped AMS on many mechs. Why? Because the sheer amount of LRM comming at you makes the handfull of missiles that the AMS interceps quite irrelevant. Also, because the AMS STILL HASNT GOT A TOGGLE, it often ran dry, before you really need it. Often firing away while beeing behind cover etc. Please PGI, make it toggable! And freeing 1,5 tons on a 50ton mech is hard enough, but putting even more ammo on it...?

- While the mechanic of NARC is fine, please let us know if we're NARCed. The moment, a massive amount of missiles hit you, even when in cover, and more are comming at you, even with noone having a LOS to target you, its too late. And I don't want to know how newer people react to this, who probably don't even know about the NARC mechanics. And yes, teams with VoIP may have less of a problem with saying "XYZ, youre NARCed, watch out" but typing that everytime in the chat, while having to find out the players name before makes it pretty much impossible, to communicate this fact. A simple symbol, like then you're hit by an enemy ECM, would be nice. The NARC symbol you see on other mechs, when theyre NARCed...in the right corner...in red...pretty please?

Edited by Bromineberry, 19 June 2014 - 03:20 AM.

[Dreddex]

I remember thinking gee there sure is a lot of lrm boaters out there, when you would see 3 or 4 on a team. Now it seems more like 4-6. Glad to finally have a real counter other than hiding behind a building for 15 minutes or bringing an ECM that i don't enjoy, and that being Radar Deprivation, how i love thee.

[zortesh]

Gambino87, on 19 June 2014 - 12:22 AM, said:

http://mwo.gamepedia.com/AMS




Alright, soooo. AMS works great versus clan LRMs. But I'll admit, a properly boated IS mech will melt your face. Especially the BLR-1S. You can equip that baby to fire 50 LRMs with NO ghost heat. (2x LRM 15 and 2x LRM 10). It's the only mech I know of that can do a 50 volley and not get ghosted.

That said, a 50 volley against a Kit Fox's 3x AMS will still only lose 9-12 missiles at best, dealing 41.8 - 45.1. In fact it would take 17 AMS's so completely destroy that volley before it hits you.

ANYWAYS, my point. OP, before you go complaining about how you suck fighting against spotters/LRM try these:

• Take cover. Find out where cover exists
  
• Maybe play a chassis that can chase off spotters
  
• Learn what you're complaining about (Stalkers, Awesome and Highlanders suffer HUGE ghost heat penalties for doing their 50/60 volleys)
  
• Equip AMS to counters the mechs that use LRM for augmented dps
  
• Use ECM
  
• Orrrrrr give up and be a team player and be a spotter for your teams LRM boats!
  
• Learn how to missile boat yourself http://themittani.co...g-your-rainboat(It's a little outdated on new chasis's but the BLR-1S is probably the best boat there is right now because of ghost heat)

Before they buffed LRMs no one used them. Now people do. Which means people will complain. LRMs are important in BattleTech because it's freaking the year 3050 and indirect missile support is completely plausible. Lets complain about weapon systems people don't use now. (Pulse lasers?) If we are going to complain about LRMs lets look at what the chasis's can actually do with them. Right now the BLR-1S is pretttty good and might need an adjustment. Or not





P.S. - If I'm wrong about the BLR-1S being the only assault class missile boat to fire a volley of 50 without ghost heat I'm sure someone will let me know so I can correct my post

That blr build does have ghostheat +6 for every volley you fire, which is amanageable, but the stalker 3h can do volleys of 50 for no ghost heat, and so manage to continuously fire 50 volleys.

2x20 2x5. no ghost heat, all lrms are linked for ghostheat cept the lrm 5's... even if ingame tolltip thing doesn't say so.

Edited by zortesh, 19 June 2014 - 03:25 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

LRM? Ain't seen no LRM around here.

[NextGame]

It really has to be said that if you are someone who is unable to avoid death by lrm at this point, with the wide variety of tools available to you, from multiple hard counters to simply standing behind a wall, then there is nothing that anyone can do to help you.

[dragnier1]

I realised this while looking at lrms coming at me (i do that many times)...huge clouds of yellow coloured lrms look intimidating at times. The clrm ripple effect looks scary more from the position of a bystander though. That may be the reason behind cries of "nerf lrms".

[Lily from animove]

perception + a lower arc of flight..

[Kampfer]

Too all the people who say LRMs need a buff, please play a light mech without ECM for an entire day. Then get back to us. Getting caught in the open for 3 seconds on a map without cover and you'll see just how devastating they can be to a light mech.
When an entire team is shooting LRMs at your light mech with barely 200 armor you won't think they are as broken as they are. WIth clan invasion things have gotten better, clan LRMs are more spread out than IS volleys, and my new kitfoxes have 3 AMS and ECM on every variant now. It's helping and you are forcing me to bring 3000+ AMS rounds to each game. That means I am countering you that means Balance.
At least this is from a light mech point of view.

[Bobzilla]

LRMs are going to be used a lot now because a lot of matches have much closer engagement ranges now. This may be because of the burst ACs, or people just aren't playing to the strengths of the clans longer ranges for now. Also the clan lights make excellent LRM carriers, due to their somewhat limited speed (enough to gain good positions, not so great at wadeing through firefights like IS lights). Things will work themselves out tho, no worries.

[Thunder Child]

My kitfox hasn't had any trouble, and I'm running modified Stock loadouts (more armor, less guns, but no C arm).
And my Locust used to love Trollololing LRM boats at 800m. Yes, it can suck when you get caught in the open. But that is why I never choose to get caught in the open. And if I do (which sometimes happens, when I get impatient), then I am willing to admit it WAS MY OWN DUMB FAULT. For my light, I find that PP FLD 30+pt Alphas are a real day ruiner. It takes half a sec, to flick and shoot those damned weapons, and my Locust is scrap. At least LRMs, I can try to dodge.

[Lily from animove]

yes, time to equip AMS, or hug the mountains more often.