556 replies to this topic

[qki]

Indeed, I meant the "play my way or not at all" crowd as a whole. English is not my first language and I still find it funny sometimes that plural and singular YOU are the same.

Funny you should mention the DHS debate, as I was indeed one of those who claimed that SHS were (and still are) usefull - if only as a starting point from which you upgrade your mech.

And if you and yours took a moment to pull your heads out of your butts (at least the ones not busy declaring all clan tech DOA and strictly inferior to our FLD overlords), you'd see that clan tech does not obsolete IS tech, because of the way the higher damage potential is realised. And it is neither a $240 wall, nor a 6 month one.

[Kraven Kor]

MischiefSC, on 18 June 2014 - 06:42 PM, said:

I feel your pain and frustration. It'll be half a year almost before you can even see what Clan Mechs handle like or work like without dropping a bunch of cash. It's hard NOT to compare that to some sort of 'pay for advantage/P2W'.

My clan mech gets stomped by IS mechs all the time though. Balance is *very* close to right. Take a break but don't give up.

Anecdotal evidence, small sample size, all that applies... but I was still doing fairly well the last few nights in those IS mechs I use that "don't suck." My Ilya, in particular, seems perfectly happy with Clan or IS in its sights.

I had a few WTFark moments where some C-Ultra/20's got ahold of me, I'd imagine, but my overall score since clans dropped has not, uh, dropped.

I remain equally terrible

I did not think I would be saying this but, thus far, the balance between Clan and IS does not seem horribly one-sided.

I do have some serious envy for the clan AC's though. GIEV ME DAKKAFIRE.

[Atheus]

00ohDstruct, on 20 June 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

When said people were just as talented at winning with IS mechs, perhaps? Just putting that out there. Those Air Jordans aren't going to make you jump higher.

Yeah, this metaphor totally applies. Everyone knows it's impossible for better equipment to help you perform better.

http://youtu.be/-Vw2CrY9Igs

Bhael Fire, on 20 June 2014 - 01:25 PM, said:

I trash Clan mechs like aluminium cans all the time in my IS mechs — if you think spending $240 on this game will allow you to insta-win, then that says more about you than it does this game.

The fact is, no amount of money will allow you to win.

It will save you time...and that's about it.

Whoa whoa WHOA!

You're saying that you can kill a clan mech in your IS mech??? False alarm everyone! It's balanced!

I literally did not think it was possible for an IS mech to kill a clan mech. It's embarrassing now, but I thought that clan tech meant insta-win, like a golden gun. Thanks for setting me straight. I feel better now knowing that the stuff behind the $240 paywall isn't actually any better than the stuff on this side. I guess we can all stop discussing it now.

[HazyLazy]

IMO the clan mechs are not over powered compared to the inner sphere mechs. I just battle clan mechs similar to IS ones and don't find any big difference. IS lights are better than clan lights; Clan mediums and heavies might have a slight advantage over IS counter parts and IS assaults have a slight advantage over the clan assaults because the IS can pop tart and generally have more maneuverability. I'd rather face a DireWolf than a Victor for example.
Also most of the people who are playing the clans right now are probably the more experienced(hard core) players who dropped money on the Clans, so I'd expect the Clan mechs to influence the match outcome a little more for the next couple of weeks while they're mastering them.

Edited by HazyLazy, 20 June 2014 - 01:59 PM.

[Bhael Fire]

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Thanks for setting me straight. I feel better now knowing that the stuff behind the $240 paywall isn't actually any better than the stuff on this side. I guess we can all stop discussing it now.

No problem.

[Lyoto Machida]

qki, on 20 June 2014 - 01:46 PM, said:

Indeed, I meant the "play my way or not at all" crowd as a whole. English is not my first language and I still find it funny sometimes that plural and singular YOU are the same.

Funny you should mention the DHS debate, as I was indeed one of those who claimed that SHS were (and still are) usefull - if only as a starting point from which you upgrade your mech.

And if you and yours took a moment to pull your heads out of your butts (at least the ones not busy declaring all clan tech DOA and strictly inferior to our FLD overlords), you'd see that clan tech does not obsolete IS tech, because of the way the higher damage potential is realised. And it is neither a $240 wall, nor a 6 month one.

You can use "you people" for the plural version of you.

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 01:49 PM, said:

Yeah, this metaphor totally applies. Everyone knows it's impossible for better equipment to help you perform better.

http://youtu.be/-Vw2CrY9Igs


Whoa whoa WHOA!

You're saying that you can kill a clan mech in your IS mech??? False alarm everyone! It's balanced!

I literally did not think it was possible for an IS mech to kill a clan mech. It's embarrassing now, but I thought that clan tech meant insta-win, like a golden gun. Thanks for setting me straight. I feel better now knowing that the stuff behind the $240 paywall isn't actually any better than the stuff on this side. I guess we can all stop discussing it now.

Yes...every schoolboy knows that Clan equipment has absolutely no drawbacks.

[Abrahms]

Lyoto Machida, on 20 June 2014 - 01:44 PM, said:

ITT: Guys with crap jobs, an desire not to spend money on video games or an incomplete knowledge of how the game actually functions.

Oh, and whiners...lots of whiners.

Pay the money for the mechs or wait a few months until their free. Otherwise, STFU about your P2W nonsense.

Haha, hilarious when people say "youre too poor to spend $240!"

No, the truth is, too intelligent.

$60 goes very far with other games. I have an expensive computer, and many other games.

It is all about VALUE.

$240 to pilot an overpowered stompy robot in a game worth $15 is sort of a... well... bad deal.

I could sell you this 1975, barely functioning car with rust for $50,000 to make you feel special, too.

And yes, the game files indicate clan is OP (more dmg and ammo per ton, heat penalties insufficient to counter - when the heat and dmg are the same, clan weighs less)

edit: the game will be blatantly pay2win for the next 3 months. After that, less so.

Edited by Abrahms, 20 June 2014 - 02:03 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Abrahms, on 20 June 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

And yes, the game files indicate clan is OP (more dmg and ammo per ton, heat penalties insufficient to counter - when the heat and dmg are the same, clan weighs less)

Quote

more dmg and ammo per ton

Quote

more dmg and ammo per ton

Perhaps you should actually do some research about this horribly OP tech. Which has the same ammo per ton. And it's actually less efficient, since the damage is not frontloaded, so you need to do more damage to deal the same effective damage.

At least, when you're not playing the Underhive.

Ultra 20 has 35 shots per ton. AC20 has 7 shots per ton. UAC20 has a 5 round burst. 5*7=35.

Utra 5=90 rounds. 3 round burst. IS AC5 30 rounds. 30*3=90

Edited by Mcgral18, 20 June 2014 - 02:05 PM.

[Abrahms]

Mcgral18, on 20 June 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Perhaps you should actually do some research about this horribly OP tech. Which has the same ammo per ton. And it's actually less efficient, since the damage is not frontloaded, so you need to do more damage to deal the same effective damage.

At least, when you're not playing the Underhive.

Ultra 20 has 35 shots per ton. AC20 has 7 shots per ton. UAC20 has a 5 round burst. 5*7=35.

Utra 5=90 rounds. 3 round burst. IS AC5 30 rounds. 30*3=90

oops, smurfy must have some wrong stats then - sorry, as a paying customer I still have no acces to clan tech (MC is a second-class currency) and non-ultra also indicated more ammo as well

Edited by Abrahms, 20 June 2014 - 02:10 PM.

[Atheus]

Mcgral18, on 20 June 2014 - 02:04 PM, said:

Perhaps you should actually do some research about this horribly OP tech. Which has the same ammo per ton. And it's actually less efficient, since the damage is not frontloaded, so you need to do more damage to deal the same effective damage.

At least, when you're not playing the Underhive.

Ultra 20 has 35 shots per ton. AC20 has 7 shots per ton. UAC20 has a 5 round burst. 5*7=35.

Utra 5=90 rounds. 3 round burst. IS AC5 30 rounds. 30*3=90

Oh you got him there. He misunderstood the numbers on smurfy regarding clan ammo. If he had paid $240 to play clan he would have known better.

[Mcgral18]

Abrahms, on 20 June 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

oops, smurfy must have some wrong stats then - sorry, as a paying customer I still have no acces to clan tech (MC is a second-class currency) and non-ultra also indicated more ammo as well

And the std cAC is also at 35 shots per ton, because it's also a 5 shot burst. Worse in every sense. LBx series are the same as IS for shot count.

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Oh you got him there. He misunderstood the numbers on smurfy regarding clan ammo. If he had paid $240 to play clan he would have known better.

Well, I payed 60$, and I prefer my SHD. 5 tons more, same as the matchmaking balance method that's going to be in place.

It just so happens that I don't have a problem beating the Clans...You do realize the concept of Torso Twisting right?

[Lyoto Machida]

Abrahms, on 20 June 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

Haha, hilarious when people say "youre too poor to spend $240!"

No, the truth is, too intelligent.

$60 goes very far with other games. I have an expensive computer, and many other games.

It is all about VALUE.

$240 to pilot an overpowered stompy robot in a game worth $15 is sort of a... well... bad deal.

I could sell you this 1975, barely functioning car with rust for $50,000 to make you feel special, too.

And yes, the game files indicate clan is OP (more dmg and ammo per ton, heat penalties insufficient to counter - when the heat and dmg are the same, clan weighs less)

edit: the game will be blatantly pay2win for the next 3 months. After that, less so.

Feeling a little insecure there? I never said you couldn't afford it...you seem like you fit the profile of the 2nd and 3rd part of that statement though.

You should be thankful some of us are paying for all the freeloaders.

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Oh you got him there. He misunderstood the numbers on smurfy regarding clan ammo. If he had paid $240 to play clan he would have known better.

True story...what's your point? Blame PGI for not putting out the stats.

[Mystere]

Abrahms, on 20 June 2014 - 02:01 PM, said:

$60 goes very far with other games. I have an expensive computer, and many other games.

It is all about VALUE.

I will just quote myself from another thread:

Mystere, on 19 June 2014 - 10:10 PM, said:

Let me put out some scenarios for everyone:

• I paid $70 for Diablo 3 but only played it for 7 days before quitting after concluding that the game sucked balls (Yes, it does!).
  
• I (hypothetically) paid $55 for a Timber Wolf pack and expect to have fun playing it (and do) for 30 days.

Which do you think I will consider a better value?

[qki]

What did you expect?

They use math to "prove" their theories. As in "paper and numbers" rather than any kind of real experience. We should probably sic em on the other group (just as elitist, and just as clueless) - the ones declaring clan mechs worthless because no FLD, break out the popcorn and start taking bets.

[Lyoto Machida]

qki, on 20 June 2014 - 02:46 PM, said:

What did you expect?

They use math to "prove" their theories. As in "paper and numbers" rather than any kind of real experience. We should probably sic em on the other group (just as elitist, and just as clueless) - the ones declaring clan mechs worthless because no FLD, break out the popcorn and start taking bets.

The gov't needs to crack down on math...I've lost too many friends to it already and it has got to stop.

[blackicmenace]

I must be blind.

[Atheus]

Mcgral18, on 20 June 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

It just so happens that I don't have a problem beating the Clans...You do realize the concept of Torso Twisting right?

Hey yeah, I'm a founder and I've never heard of torso twisting. Was this something that was just invented today as a clan countermeasure? Does it make your medium laser shoot hotter, further and longer? Does it make it so you can fire your AC/20 twice per cooldown? Can clan mechs torso twist too or just IS mechs? Does this mean that I can only beat clan if I'm using PPFLD weapons like gauss/ppc? Please tell me all about this twisting torso and how it compensates for a ~20-100% gap in weapon power.

[qki]

same thing you get for trying to circle a DR I in a boom&zoom Spad XIII if you understand the analogy.

On paper, the clans look strictly more powerful - their weapons have more range, more power (usually), and weigh less (typically 1-2 tons).

On paper.
In the field, however, it turns out that range may, or may not make a difference, longer cooldowns are a major factor, and the burst fire mechanic means you may not put all your damage in the same location (or even on target). cLRM are more vulnerable to ams, and longer burn on lasers requires more focus to take advantage of the extra damage.

Clan mechs can toeso twist (duh), but when taking FLD twisting has less of an effect, than when spreading dots.

Keep on dreaming dude. Feel free to come up with another horribly skewed example, where all the conditions have been carefully chosen to favour one result. I'll be over there, playing the game and proving you wrong ten times out of ten. When you are ready to move on, and learn to play, head over to the new players section - i'm sure someone there will patiently explain all your mistakes and teach you the basics, and you can work from there.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 02:58 PM, said:

Hey yeah, I'm a founder and I've never heard of torso twisting. Was this something that was just invented today as a clan countermeasure? Does it make your medium laser shoot hotter, further and longer? Does it make it so you can fire your AC/20 twice per cooldown? Can clan mechs torso twist too or just IS mechs? Does this mean that I can only beat clan if I'm using PPFLD weapons like gauss/ppc? Please tell me all about this twisting torso and how it compensates for a ~20-100% gap in weapon power.

What exactly is your argument again, or are you just complaining? Have you even piloted a clan mech? Because it honestly doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about. Are you really that upset about not being good against Clan mechs? I ask because it sounds like you're more interested in fighting on the forums than getting experience fighting against clan mechs in game, and no one is going to learn about the strengths and weaknesses of those mechs by just speaking conjecture after a failed match or two against them.

[Papaspud]

qki, on 20 June 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

same thing you get for trying to circle a DR I in a boom&zoom Spad XIII if you understand the analogy.

On paper, the clans look strictly more powerful - their weapons have more range, more power (usually), and weigh less (typically 1-2 tons).

On paper.
In the field, however, it turns out that range may, or may not make a difference, longer cooldowns are a major factor, and the burst fire mechanic means you may not put all your damage in the same location (or even on target). cLRM are more vulnerable to ams, and longer burn on lasers requires more focus to take advantage of the extra damage.

Clan mechs can toeso twist (duh), but when taking FLD twisting has less of an effect, than when spreading dots.

Keep on dreaming dude. Feel free to come up with another horribly skewed example, where all the conditions have been carefully chosen to favour one result. I'll be over there, playing the game and proving you wrong ten times out of ten. When you are ready to move on, and learn to play, head over to the new players section - i'm sure someone there will patiently explain all your mistakes and teach you the basics, and you can work from there.

And your attitude is why you will be jerking yourself off while claiming ....learn to do it right. Have fun