556 replies to this topic

[Atheus]

IraqiWalker, on 20 June 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

It helps spread damage so those AC20s that fire in bursts of 5 shots, will deal at most 5 damage ALL OVER your mech, instead of 20 to one spot and end you in two salvos. Same with the lasers, you'd be able to fire, and torso twist while the clanner has to wait for his laser to burn out. So you deal more effective damage to one location compared to the clanner. It generally helps deal with all kinds of damage over time weapons, which whaddya know, clan is all about. No need for PP FLD. I use 3 streaks and a Medium laser on my COM-2D and I have no problem beating T-Wolves in it.

You should try it. It's very helpful. Also, it's been around for a while actually.

Mcgral18, on 20 June 2014 - 04:42 PM, said:

So, why don't you tell me what happens when you state perfectly still looking at a cUAC20? You take potentially 10 rounds at 4 damage each over the span of nearly a second.
That will hurt a single component quite severely.

Now, if you twist when this happens, you'll take 4 or 8 damage on said important component, 8 on another and then 20 wasted on the arm or shield torso? And that's only if they all hit.
That sounds like a much nicer option. Also half the reason some Clan mechs are kinda subpar. The Nova doesn't have a shield arm. It has 45% of its firepower in each arm. You do not want to shield with them, but you're forced to. By comparison, the 50 ton Centurion has both shield arms and FLD with the SRMs. Similar speed can be had between the two, but the Cent has much nicer hitboxes.

Full out damage isn't the most important part of a mech. Its speed, hitboxes and also loadout are equally important. JJs are also an important consideration.

Ohhh thanks. I am a moron so I always thought people were just role playing fighting a mosquito in their cockpit or trying to entertain the guy who is shooting them by doing a funny dance.

That's amazing. So by torso twisting in your dual AC/20 jaegermech against a clan with dual UAC/20, you take that 80 damage that you're going to take from dual UAC/20's and spread it so you only take ~26 each or so to your CT, ST, and Arm. Then 4 seconds later you again take another ~26 to your CT, ST, and arm. Oh wait turn the other way because now your CT, ST and arm are all armorless, so try your other side or back armor oh... never mind you're dead after 9-13 seconds of torso twisting because it doesn't matter if you're Chubby Checker, you can't twist off 240-320 damage in a jaegermech and expect to keep going, but your enemy can much more easily twist off your 120-160 damage even if it is in 20 damage packages. The difference is that he can afford to stare you down, because if you stare him down, you'll be taking all that fun to the CT faster than you can smack your forehead.

Aside from that, in this example, your clan opponent probably has a nice big helping of lasers for you too, or maybe even a third UAC/20, and maybe a whole lot more armor because pretty much all the big clan mechs can mount dual (or triple) UAC/20, because hey: Clan is balanced.

Still thanks for showing me how just by twisting your torso your IS mech can deal with a mech that has 2-3x as much firepower. Just be sure you don't stagger shot your UAC/20's to avoid ghost heat, though, because if you look at him for that long, you're going to die.

Edited by Atheus, 20 June 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Atheus, on 20 June 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Ohhh thanks. I am a moron so I always thought people were just role playing fighting a mosquito in their cockpit or trying to entertain the guy who is shooting them by doing a funny dance.

That's amazing. So by torso twisting in your dual AC/20 jaegermech against a clan with dual UAC/20, you take that 80 damage that you're going to take from dual UAC/20's and spread it so you only take ~26 each or so to your CT, ST, and Arm. Then 4 seconds later you again take another ~26 to your CT, ST, and arm. Oh wait turn the other way because now your CT, ST and arm are all armorless, so try your other side or back armor oh... never mind you're dead after 9-13 seconds of torso twisting because it doesn't matter if you're Chubby Checker, you can't twist off 240-320 damage in a jaegermech and expect to keep going, but your enemy can much more easily twist off your 120-160 damage even if it is in 20 damage packages. The difference is that he can afford to stare you down, because if you stare him down, you'll be taking all that fun to the CT faster than you can smack your forehead.

Aside from that, in this example, your clan opponent probably has a nice big helping of lasers for you too, or maybe even a third UAC/20, and maybe a whole lot more armor because pretty much all the big clan mechs can mount dual (or triple) UAC/20, because hey: Clan is balanced.

Still thanks for showing me how just by twisting your torso your IS mech can deal with a mech that has 2-3x as much firepower. Just be sure you don't stagger shot your UAC/20's to avoid ghost heat, though, because if you look at him for that long, you're going to die.

UAC20s are a terrible example. Those will overheat you after the first pair of Ultra fire?

But, ignore all the evidence you want. It doesn't change the realities of Clan tech.

Edited by Mcgral18, 20 June 2014 - 07:32 PM.

[Atheus]

Mcgral18, on 20 June 2014 - 07:32 PM, said:

UAC20s are a terrible example. Those will overheat you after the first pair of Ultra fire?

But, ignore all the evidence you want. It doesn't change the realities of Clan tech.

They won't overheat because you stagger fire them. You can easily fire 3 rounds of 2+2 shots (84 heat) as fast as you can stagger without triggering ghost heat (will take 9-10 seconds) and you will not overheat so long as you have 14 DHS. To be fair, there is a chance that you will get a jam, but whatevs.

[IceCase88]

The clans are far from OP. They are about right. I win my duels with clan mechs more often than not. They are DPS machines which helps the IS. You will probably see more IS mechs moving to heavy FLD loadouts as the clan mechs get mastered. If you are getting destroyed by clan mechs all the time then you really are not torso twisting, using cover, or any of the other high elo methods. I do not run meta builds and I have no problems. I am just above mid-tier elo most likely.

[Mystere]

IraqiWalker, on 20 June 2014 - 05:58 PM, said:

Once the mechs became available for C-Bills, and MC, and people started using them, most of that died out, and the SHD chassis the one most declared DOA, was actually considered OP, and the BLR and TDR that everyone was yapping on about, turned out to be okay mechs, and not as OP as everyone thought they would be.

Frankly, I think much of the whining died out precisely because people can no longer use the "pay to win" or "pay wall" excuse when the Phoenix mechs finally became available for c-bills. As such, I am viewing the similar whining about the Clans as just more of the same.

Roland, on 20 June 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yes, but in the case of the Phoenix mechs, as you admit, once they were released no one believed them to be overpowered. There were no threads claiming the phoenix mechs were P2W after their release.

This would constitute a significant difference between the phoenix mechs and the clan mechs, wouldn't you say?

Considering that we are dealing with The Clans, I actually expected the whining to be at a higher volume. As such, this player base did not disappoint.

As for the Phoenix mechs, did the whining quiet down in 1 day, or even 1 week? No, it took a bit longer than that for people to figure out which worked and which did not. And again, I expect the story to be the same for The Clans, with probably just a whole lot more drama because, well, it's The Clans.

It's just history repeating itself.

Edited by Mystere, 21 June 2014 - 05:37 AM.

[Bagheera]

FupDup, on 18 June 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

and/or staring down the enemy due to DoT weapons.

In a practice this one seems to have a pretty big impact. Admittedly I haven't played a ton since the patch, but defensive twist has always been a big factor. Something the IS is generally better equipped to utilize.

So far.

[Thalos]

to those who say that IS mechs have trade off's..well in a game environment what I see is missile barrages destroy much of the IS armor values going into a fight and by the time they can get close enough to do serious dmg to a bunch of clan mechs the lasers and Ultra everything that they are carrying overwhelms any advantage IS has. With this many clan mechs in a match IS is totally stomped just from superior missile barrages and weapons.

How people try and justify math numbers on the coolddown of Clan mech weapons when in the real game it barely translates to any dissadvantage. Take for example, my Atlas K, with support from teamates with 2x AMS's and 3x lg lasers i get burned down often by missiles to about 60% before I can even engage with decent dmg then when I do ultra 5's ultra 20's or extended med or pulse tears me down the rest in about 5s, no matter carefully i try to engage the sheer volume of weapon power coming at me just negates my armor and i cant even do the same in return.

This siutation I have found myself in time and time again with multiple mechs of IS and thus am coming to the conclusion that to have any chance of having fun in this game with any realistic idea of winning for myself 50% or more of the time I have to dish out even more $$$ after the $300 or so i have spent in this game already to compete.

Kinda tired of this merry go round. Well done PGI, your bank accounts are nice and pumped up now and in another year rinse and repeat.

[wanderer]

I love all the Clan 'Mechs running around. My lifespan has increased notably in matches due to their constant spray of DoT rather than getting drilled through the CT by the usual PPC/AC meta.

The scary ones are the Timberwolves who hop around with ER PPC/Gauss and maybe SRMs to actually put lots of damage in the same spots, thereby being decently killing.

My AMS works well against Clan LRMs, because streaming shots. Not that I USE AMS now that I have the radar dep module, my Orion just vanishes from locks the second I cross a decent-sized rock. Meanwhile, my LRMs tear apart Dire Wolves and I can outcircle one with a bloody 74kph heavy. If I go SRMs, putting 24 SRMs into a Clanner breaks them just as badly as IS designs, and even their lights don't move fast enough to make dodging my shots easy.

Clanners put out a lot of firepower. That firepower is great for wiping people who don't know how to spread damage. It's outclassed by the meta standards of PPC/AC/Gauss, and it can even be outbrawled because IS assaults are more nimble than Clan ones, ton for ton.

OP is a whining badplayer. I don't have a single Clan machine, and I'm loving the pile of dead Clanners I keep getting each match.

[Atheus]

wanderer, on 22 June 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

I love all the Clan 'Mechs running around. My lifespan has increased notably in matches due to their constant spray of DoT rather than getting drilled through the CT by the usual PPC/AC meta.

The scary ones are the Timberwolves who hop around with ER PPC/Gauss and maybe SRMs to actually put lots of damage in the same spots, thereby being decently killing.

My AMS works well against Clan LRMs, because streaming shots. Not that I USE AMS now that I have the radar dep module, my Orion just vanishes from locks the second I cross a decent-sized rock. Meanwhile, my LRMs tear apart Dire Wolves and I can outcircle one with a bloody 74kph heavy. If I go SRMs, putting 24 SRMs into a Clanner breaks them just as badly as IS designs, and even their lights don't move fast enough to make dodging my shots easy.

Clanners put out a lot of firepower. That firepower is great for wiping people who don't know how to spread damage. It's outclassed by the meta standards of PPC/AC/Gauss, and it can even be outbrawled because IS assaults are more nimble than Clan ones, ton for ton.

OP is a whining badplayer. I don't have a single Clan machine, and I'm loving the pile of dead Clanners I keep getting each match.

Good luck when the build hopping/leveling phase is over and the prime build camping phase begins.

[Badgerthej]

ok i couldnt stand to read every last bit of this posting because people with clan tech are saying NOPE everythings just peachy....when your medium mechs can tank more firepower then an assault you look at that and say holy balls i'm unreasonably powerful.

allow me to just put up one little example according to smurfy

clan er medium laser...5 heat, 7 damage, 450 range, 1 ton
Sphere large laser... 7 heat, 9 damage, 450 range, 5 ton

do i need to say more....your standard weapon is better in every way than our heaviest beam weapon with one exception...the large laser has less beam-on time by .65 seconds....

.65 seconds oh my oh my what a horrendous drawback...may i just say you have a medium with 12 of the things, who cares about beam on time when you can regularly beast out much more dps (using good heat management obviously) or completely murder someone with a point alpha of death.

sorry clan boys, in my oppinion your stuff has broken this game, its not fun when you cant hope to stand up to a mech one on one and heavens forbid it if you find a lance of the things.

[wanderer]

Atheus, on 22 June 2014 - 08:20 AM, said:

Good luck when the build hopping/leveling phase is over and the prime build camping phase begins.

At that point, we'll be back to the ol' meta and I won't be seeing much of anything but Timber Wolves. Maybe a Kit Fox or two.

That's the same ol' with different skins, and Clans weren't going to change it. Only finally getting rid of FLD barrages and easy jump sniping will.

[krash27]

Roland, on 20 June 2014 - 06:11 PM, said:

Yes, but in the case of the Phoenix mechs, as you admit, once they were released no one believed them to be overpowered. There were no threads claiming the phoenix mechs were P2W after their release.

This would constitute a significant difference between the phoenix mechs and the clan mechs, wouldn't you say?


It's a temporary pay wall... but one which will last for quite a while.

I notice you left out the part where PGI has to have cash flow from somewhere.
Selective editing, gotta love it.

[Thalos]

Atheus, Im sorry but I have to totally dissagree with many of your statements, sure if your working in a coordinated voice group then yes many of your points can be valid but I had to laugh when you said .. "Clanners put out a lot of firepower. That firepower is great for wiping people who don't know how to spread damage"...OMG LOL... Yep how long are you guys going to drag that dead beast around...

Not much you can do trying to spread the dmg around, by the time your done trying to twink the dmg around your whole torso they have already tore over half your armor off and quite possibly have critted you. Stop telling players that can play that they totally suck just because you might be in the top 5% of guys who can do some of what you say somewhat decently.

OP has many correct points and I hope to hell the Devs pay attention to those points.

[Roland]

krash27, on 22 June 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

I notice you left out the part where PGI has to have cash flow from somewhere.
Selective editing, gotta love it.

You don't have a very good grasp of how F2P titles can generate revenue.

[Powder Puff Pew Pew]

Aresye, on 18 June 2014 - 08:37 PM, said:

So both sides are arguing about the other being OP?

Think I remember Paul saying something like that's the perfect indication of balance

Seeing both sides of the IS and Clan I think they are pretty well balanced but I am pissed they dont let you upgrade armor for the clan mechs. Its like driving a cardboard tank. for lolz!!!

[IraqiWalker]

Thalos, on 22 June 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

to those who say that IS mechs have trade off's..well in a game environment what I see is missile barrages destroy much of the IS armor values going into a fight and by the time they can get close enough to do serious dmg to a bunch of clan mechs the lasers and Ultra everything that they are carrying overwhelms any advantage IS has. With this many clan mechs in a match IS is totally stomped just from superior missile barrages and weapons.

How people try and justify math numbers on the coolddown of Clan mech weapons when in the real game it barely translates to any dissadvantage. Take for example, my Atlas K, with support from teamates with 2x AMS's and 3x lg lasers i get burned down often by missiles to about 60% before I can even engage with decent dmg then when I do ultra 5's ultra 20's or extended med or pulse tears me down the rest in about 5s, no matter carefully i try to engage the sheer volume of weapon power coming at me just negates my armor and i cant even do the same in return.

This siutation I have found myself in time and time again with multiple mechs of IS and thus am coming to the conclusion that to have any chance of having fun in this game with any realistic idea of winning for myself 50% or more of the time I have to dish out even more $$$ after the $300 or so i have spent in this game already to compete.

Kinda tired of this merry go round. Well done PGI, your bank accounts are nice and pumped up now and in another year rinse and repeat.

IS LRMs are much better than clan LRMs and the same thing happens to clans I can count the times when I died 2 minutes into the match, because I got spotted in my Daishi, and LRMs turned me to rubble. I'm using my IS mechs without a hitch, and even my non-elited Orion kills clans faster than most things out there. You're looking at one piece of a 500 piece puzzle.

Badgerthej, on 22 June 2014 - 08:21 AM, said:

ok i couldnt stand to read every last bit of this posting because people with clan tech are saying NOPE everythings just peachy....when your medium mechs can tank more firepower then an assault you look at that and say holy balls i'm unreasonably powerful.

allow me to just put up one little example according to smurfy

clan er medium laser...5 heat, 7 damage, 450 range, 1 ton
Sphere large laser... 7 heat, 9 damage, 450 range, 5 ton

do i need to say more....your standard weapon is better in every way than our heaviest beam weapon with one exception...the large laser has less beam-on time by .65 seconds....

.65 seconds oh my oh my what a horrendous drawback...may i just say you have a medium with 12 of the things, who cares about beam on time when you can regularly beast out much more dps (using good heat management obviously) or completely murder someone with a point alpha of death.

sorry clan boys, in my oppinion your stuff has broken this game, its not fun when you cant hope to stand up to a mech one on one and heavens forbid it if you find a lance of the things.

Good job on falling into the same mistake as most people who are saying "clan is OP". On paper, and without taking into account all of the calculations, yeah clan is OP. If you take the whole picture. No, they really are balanced. The medium and small laser do need some tweaking with heat and range ratios, but there's nothing overpowered about them.

Thalos, on 22 June 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Atheus, Im sorry but I have to totally dissagree with many of your statements, sure if your working in a coordinated voice group then yes many of your points can be valid but I had to laugh when you said .. "Clanners put out a lot of firepower. That firepower is great for wiping people who don't know how to spread damage"...OMG LOL... Yep how long are you guys going to drag that dead beast around...

Not much you can do trying to spread the dmg around, by the time your done trying to twink the dmg around your whole torso they have already tore over half your armor off and quite possibly have critted you. Stop telling players that can play that they totally suck just because you might be in the top 5% of guys who can do some of what you say somewhat decently.

OP has many correct points and I hope to hell the Devs pay attention to those points.

I enjoyed the first line of your post. Until I realized you didn't read atheus' posts properly. He's saying clans are OP. We're the ones saying they're not, and if you know how to torso twist, clan weapons don't deal big enough damage to strip your armor.

a UAC 20 firese 5 shots at 4 damage each. If you twist as the gun starts firing, you will spread that 5 shot barrage across multiple sections of your mech. This isn't a thing that the top 5% can do. This is something that ANYONE can do. IF they try to do it.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 22 June 2014 - 11:26 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Kiiyor, on 19 June 2014 - 01:11 AM, said:

Try the 4SP, with some SRM goodness........

Clan mechs have the most glorious allergy to IS SRMs. You hit them with a volley and the Clanners just break out in hives.

I dunno what the OP is complaining about. I recently converted my IS mechs to run off of Clanner tears and my mileage has never been better.

[Karmen Baric]

I think everyone knows clan mechs are OP as clan weapons are OP.

Edited by Karmen Baric, 23 June 2014 - 12:23 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Karmen Baric, on 23 June 2014 - 12:23 AM, said:

I think everyone knows clan mechs are OP as clan weapons are OP.

Pretty sure you're wrong about that.

Here, this'll help

http://mwomercs.com/...e-over-powered/

[pwnface]

People that still think clan mechs are OP are just bad at this game. Learn how to use cover and then learn how to play. Playing ONLY Inner Sphere mechs has been significantly easier since the "clan invasion", I've been averaging 8 1k+ matches a day since the clan invasion started.

Edited by pwnface, 23 June 2014 - 02:24 AM.