349 replies to this topic

[TheSteelRhino]

@Tesunie

Assume much? I ONLY bought the Thor Package. 240$ is just more than I am willing to spend. And the value for the 90$ is just not there imho.

So for 90$ I got
Kit Fox..I don't really like lights, and I don't hear stellar reviews about this one anyways.

A Nova...huge let down, and that seems to be a common opinion. Playing around corners is a very limited role, and the mech is so darn wide you have a lot of time exposed (Yes I know you can put all of your lasers in one arm and reduce that but..meh)...in short, the hunchback does that better. It cannot hill hump worth a damn b/c it's a knuckle dragger and the arms are so low, you have to expose nearly your entire mech to get those arms clear of terrain for a shot. Sadly it's inferior to a stormcrow in every way. (It's not like you can actually run 12 ERML). Jump jets are great, but just not enough to offset the flaws. Also, it's just squishy for whatever reason....

Summoner....might have been "Okay", but it's very undergunned compared to Timberwolf, Mad Dog, and very likely the HellBringer/Loki. The one advantage that mech WOULD have had was Jump Jets, and they negated that with JumpJets on the Timberwolf.

So...yes..as far as I am concerned the Thor (90$) package is not a good product..*shrug*.

Now..for an extra 30$..I could have gotten the dire wolf. Not interested in that one. The warhawk..yes...Would have been interested.

The problem I have here, is that for some reason the mechs that are generally considered good in the clan package don't start showing up until you drop 120$. I realize this is my opinion. But just take a look at what ppl are playing. How many Nova's and summoners do you really see?

So do I consider all of the clan mechs bad? Not at all. But there is not an even distribution of good mechs throughout the package. And I'm just not going to keep throwing money at it. Cannot justify spending 240$ to get 3 mechs (plus variants that I want).... Reaching out to support to see if I can get an exchange and use the money I spent to get 2 A La Carte.

Please note: I'm not trying to bash PGI in ANY way during this post. I am simply stating that for whatever reason the $90 package is not a good value. At least imho.

thanks,
Rhino

[That Dawg]

Avid Nova user here
I enjoy it.
Its clearly NOT a beginners mech.
Its tricky, temperamental and if you lose focus of the mini map, you're as good as dead.
You have to make sure you stick with the pack, pay attention and exploit enemy mechs (really pay close attention to the weak areas, target them when you lock up a mech) More so than my other mechs, hell my Banshee, that slow lumbering thing, I get caught alone all the time and WIN those staring contests easy peasy...Or take one or two down and cripple the rest of the lance.
Nova: It excels at a boom stick in each arm, poke around, sneak shot.relocate poke around sneak shot other side of whatever structure. Put a couple of mediums in each arm. IF you have the mouse, isolate all four groups, and even then, you have to chain fire this dam thing.
its fast enough, its got jumpjets, I kill storm crows all the time in it.
Just looked my Kill to death in it is 1.25,
The wheelbarrow full of mediums-OR smalls, simply wont work, and its a pisser AFTER I spent the time and cbills AND real money (dam, I had to have a fancy camo job AND new paint) to buy three, grind three..I'm talking DAYS after I mastered the S (keeper) ......they hit it so hard with a ball bat, you dont see a lot of them anymore. And I TOTALLY get why the anger about it.....so......what....sell it? For what..not enough to buy back those IS mechs I sold off, or the weaponry...

I blew my whole wad...saved for a 6 weeks (can't play all the time, or even often) AND...ready? The best part I sold half a dozen working IS mechs to finish the financing (modules, experimental weaponry etc) So, yeah I'm pissed.

It does do quad machineguns, and 6 mediums quite well. It does dual erppc's ok enough along with dual ERpulse.
for giggles I stripped of quite a bit more armor than I care too, used 3 ERM's and dual ERPPC's, targeting computer, one heat sink.....that or dual ERLP's gets kills, looks cool, sounds cool...dies like a screaming little girl...pretty much all you can ask for a in a game, eh?

I've had five kills in it, break 500 damage often enough its not a stop and take a screen shot and stare at it, it will run conquest as well as the other two...

That all said, I would NOT recommend it to anyone had they not gotten that week of freemium, a free mech bay and 6mil cbills back when it came out for cbills.

[InspectorG]

Im a mid-tier Puglandia scrub.

I do well in Kitfoxes, ECM or not. Its a slow light but can pack more firepower than most IS mediums.

NOVA a let down? Did you play it before the laser nerf? 3erml per arm, probe, target comp, tons of DHS,jj.
Nova im doing well in, you have to play it like the Kitfox, peek around corner(or nearby heavy/assault) shoot, hide. You do not lead a push in a Nova unless its late match. Last night i was averaging 2 kills, 300+ damage

Summoner is growing on me but it is limited in payload. 2erml and lrm45 has been decent but i hate using lrm.
er ll is interesting but my sniping game is 'meh'
Currently trying gauss + 4erml.
Summoner could use some quirk love, i do like the way it handles, it just wont ever be a Twolf, not enough guns.

Clan mechs handle, feel, and play different than IS mechs.
Those 3 above are NOT the strongest...well people are warming up to the Kitfox, it is a very flexible mech.

They are not weak, look how many IS player claim Clan is OP, people mistake mechs for their lack of skill. This is a difficult game in an age of easy gaming.

Dude seriously though, some advice and im not being snide or anything.

Especially with digital products: Caveat Emptor

You spent money on Pixels...for good or ill. I dont know if Alibaba will figure into online gaming products in the near future. Think twice before buying new shiny, unless f course, you have money to burn.

[Anassi]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 27 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

A Nova...huge let down, and that seems to be a common opinion. Playing around corners is a very limited role, and the mech is so darn wide you have a lot of time exposed (Yes I know you can put all of your lasers in one arm and reduce that but..meh)...in short, the hunchback does that better. It cannot hill hump worth a damn b/c it's a knuckle dragger and the arms are so low, you have to expose nearly your entire mech to get those arms clear of terrain for a shot. Sadly it's inferior to a stormcrow in every way. (It's not like you can actually run 12 ERML). Jump jets are great, but just not enough to offset the flaws. Also, it's just squishy for whatever reason....

I love my Nova Prime. Probably my favorite mech to date (well, shared with the Huginn and the Stalker 5M). You can use those 12 energy hard points: 3 ERML, 3 ERSL per arm. Costs you a bit of range compared to the stock loadout and a little bit of damage but the heat is totally manageable. Even allows you to slap four MGs with more than enough ammo on the side torsos for shooting **** when waiting for the heat cooldown.
It's also not particularly squishy. That armor you have can eat a couple shots, it's not like you keel over the moment someone sneezes at your general direction. It's no Atlas, but it sure as hell isn't a Locust either. The hitboxes are generally alright, neither particularly awesome nor awful. You can use those giant arms to shield quite a bit of damage, although Griffins to it better of course.

Yeah, it's got it's shortcomings. It's wide, all the firepower are in the arms, very limited pod space due to neither Endo nor Ferro, fixed JJs, the mother of all knuckle draggers and so on. But if you manage to work your way past that then you'll be rewarded with a Mech that still punches *way* out of it's weight class and is a great amount of fun.

You can of course always go the easy route and just buy a Stormcrow. That's a nice mech too.

Edited by Anassi, 27 September 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Tesunie]

I'm going to be breaking your (rather long) post into shorter segments. I am not doing so to be rude, just it makes it easier to focus and talk about one piece at a time.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 27 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

@Tesunie

Assume much? I ONLY bought the Thor Package. 240$ is just more than I am willing to spend. And the value for the 90$ is just not there imho.

There was a reason I stated "So, let me understand this right". You made it sound like you had "bought the whole package". However, I do see some of your point. On the other side, it's no different than if I had bought the Shadowhawk pack, and then complained about possibly wishing I got my money back because the Locust's vision is blocked by silly roll cage bars over it's cockpit. (Please, don't misunderstand me here.)

You took a chance on a package, and didn't know if you would like it. I can understand the frustration of what you say, because I bought the Overlord package without knowing what the mechs might be capable of (same as you with the clans). I ended up finding the Locust (P) to be near useless to me and I'd prefer having a none (P) version of it instead. And the entire Battlemaster line ended up getting sold because I didn't enjoy them at all. Can't account for all preferences here. Some people will like it, some people will not.

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 27 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

So for 90$ I got
Kit Fox..I don't really like lights, and I don't hear stellar reviews about this one anyways.

Kit Fox is starting to really develop it's own role on the battlefield. That ECM it can get drives a lot of it's roles, but people are still toying around with it and I'm seeing new builds all the time (with and without ECM). I think a lot of the reviews are changing on this little mech (but it is a light and frail mech still).

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 27 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

A Nova...huge let down, and that seems to be a common opinion. Playing around corners is a very limited role, and the mech is so darn wide you have a lot of time exposed (Yes I know you can put all of your lasers in one arm and reduce that but..meh)...in short, the hunchback does that better. It cannot hill hump worth a damn b/c it's a knuckle dragger and the arms are so low, you have to expose nearly your entire mech to get those arms clear of terrain for a shot. Sadly it's inferior to a stormcrow in every way. (It's not like you can actually run 12 ERML). Jump jets are great, but just not enough to offset the flaws. Also, it's just squishy for whatever reason....

The Nova is only a let down when it is compared to other mechs such as the Ryoken (Storm Crow) or even it's other rival, the TImberwolf. However, the Nova is a very nice mech, very much like the Hunchback 4P. And just like the 4P, often times people seem to prefer other Hunchbacks more because of much of the driving meta. As far as between the Stormcrow and the Nova, you do have to consider the weight difference. Just like the Shadowhawk/Griffin/Wolverine are the kings of the medium mechs (for the most part), the Ryoken is heavier and thus "better" than the Nova.

Personally, I have a lot of fun with my Nova Prime (trial stock version). I can't speak for everyone, but it doesn't seem like a bad mech to me. It's not going to be a mech for everyone (just like how I hated the Battlemaster, other people love it). I am sorry it wasn't a mech for you, especially considering you paid money for it. I wished it worked out better for you. (At least you got 2 mech bays out of the deal, and some extra colors as well.)

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 27 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

Summoner....might have been "Okay", but it's very undergunned compared to Timberwolf, Mad Dog, and very likely the HellBringer/Loki. The one advantage that mech WOULD have had was Jump Jets, and they negated that with JumpJets on the Timberwolf.

Summoner is it's own beast. I agree that it's best advantage was taken away from it by the introduction of the Timberwolf S. By all acounts, the S shouldn't be here for a while longer and the Jump Jets should honestly be a hard wired piece of the S chassis. The Summoner is a hard chassis to use, and I wished they had released a trial version of the prime so I could at least check it out a bit...

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 27 September 2014 - 08:03 AM, said:

So...yes..as far as I am concerned the Thor (90$) package is not a good product..*shrug*.
...
The problem I have here, is that for some reason the mechs that are generally considered good in the clan package don't start showing up until you drop 120$. I realize this is my opinion. But just take a look at what ppl are playing. How many Nova's and summoners do you really see?

So do I consider all of the clan mechs bad? Not at all. But there is not an even distribution of good mechs throughout the package. And I'm just not going to keep throwing money at it. Cannot justify spending 240$ to get 3 mechs (plus variants that I want).... Reaching out to support to see if I can get an exchange and use the money I spent to get 2 A La Carte.

Please note: I'm not trying to bash PGI in ANY way during this post. I am simply stating that for whatever reason the $90 package is not a good value. At least imho.

(Some editing on this section, as not all of it was something I could/was willing to respond to.)

For you, yes. I'm sorry that the $90 package wasn't worth it for you. That is an issue with the prepurchase, get it before everyone else can, pre-released items. You are basically buying it blind and hoping you will like it. I'm not saying this to be mean, but reality can be harsh. As I said before, I wished it had worked out better for you, and I'm sorry it didn't.

I think, as a marketing mechanic, they placed a lot of the "good" mechs in the second tier of the clan pack. I know I wanted the Puma and the Ryoken, which was each tier 2. Had the Puma been tier one, I would have tossed the $30 in and gotten it. But it wasn't, so I got nothing. I too could not justify the pricing, as for me $30 a step seemed a bit steep, which was one of the big reasons I didn't buy any clan mechs. If it was $20 (or maybe even $25) I may have bought up to the Nova pack, but for $30 a step, I just felt it was too steep. I can't say I see many Summoners, but I do see a few Novas.

For your reasons, I can agree that the $90 package was, sadly, not worth the value you got from it personally. I can see, and understand that. I wished it had worked out better, but sadly, not everything can work as we intend for it to, can it? I wish you luck with you contact with support, but I fear that they wont be able to help you in this instance. It honestly (and I don't mean rudeness or to sound like a jerk) isn't PGI's fault if you didn't like the mechs. (I do appreciate that you seem to see this though.)

[Escef]

Tesunie, on 27 September 2014 - 08:33 PM, said:

Summoner is it's own beast. I agree that it's best advantage was taken away from it by the introduction of the Timberwolf S. By all acounts, the S shouldn't be here for a while longer and the Jump Jets should honestly be a hard wired piece of the S chassis. The Summoner is a hard chassis to use, and I wished they had released a trial version of the prime so I could at least check it out a bit...

According to the Master Unit List, the Timber Wolf S is a 3050 mech, so they bent timeline by a few months. Also, hardwiring the jets on the S would require, by the nature of omnimechs, that they be hardwired on ALL the variants. That's kind of what having them hardwired means.

As for the Summoner being hard to use, I found it was quite easy to use. Yes, the hardpoints are a bit anemic, but because of this you frequently get mechs with a small number of mid-sized or large guns and plenty of cooling. Combined with jump jets it becomes a reasonably solid mech. It is by no means optimal, but it is very easy to use. Of all the clan mechs, I think it would make a nice starter mech because it tends to have a forgiving heat scale, can get out of trouble, and you aren't juggling a large number of weapons.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Escef, on 27 September 2014 - 11:47 PM, said:

According to the Master Unit List, the Timber Wolf S is a 3050 mech, so they bent timeline by a few months. Also, hardwiring the jets on the S would require, by the nature of omnimechs, that they be hardwired on ALL the variants. That's kind of what having them hardwired means.

(Bolding mine)

No, not really. Just have one (or both) of the CT critical slots have hardwired jump jets and don't let any of the other -S omnipods accept them. Then you have a single variant of TWF that can jump.

Although I would have preferred if none of the TWFs could jump, since that steals the Summoner's thunder (and makes the already-basically-best mech in the game even better). Perhaps have the eventual hero TWF (Aidan Pryde variant?) with JJs.

[Escef]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 28 September 2014 - 03:12 AM, said:

(Bolding mine)

No, not really. Just have one (or both) of the CT critical slots have hardwired jump jets and don't let any of the other -S omnipods accept them. Then you have a single variant of TWF that can jump.

Although I would have preferred if none of the TWFs could jump, since that steals the Summoner's thunder (and makes the already-basically-best mech in the game even better). Perhaps have the eventual hero TWF (Aidan Pryde variant?) with JJs.

That would require giving jets hardpoints, and furthermore, limiting those hardpoints to the Center Torso... How the hell do you fit 5 jets in the CT?

Also, you want none of the Timbies to have jets, but then turn around and say an Aiden Pride Hero that did would be ok? Having the only jump capable Timby be a Hero would be the first credible instance of P2W in this game.

[Anassi]

Escef, on 28 September 2014 - 04:26 AM, said:

That would require giving jets hardpoints, and furthermore, limiting those hardpoints to the Center Torso... How the hell do you fit 5 jets in the CT?

Not necessarily. The clanners often times have hardwired equipment that doesn't need hardpoints. See the Warhawk left torso with the shitton of unremovable heat sinks or the Nova / Summoner legs with the unremovable JJs. They could have just as easily done that with the TBR-S CT and hardwire two JJs in there.

[Escef]

Anassi, on 28 September 2014 - 05:27 AM, said:

Not necessarily. The clanners often times have hardwired equipment that doesn't need hardpoints. See the Warhawk left torso with the shitton of unremovable heat sinks or the Nova / Summoner legs with the unremovable JJs. They could have just as easily done that with the TBR-S CT and hardwire two JJs in there.

Ok, full stop. If they are hardwired than that means EVERY variant has them hardwired. Period. Statement ends. Do not pass GO, do not collect $200. If they are fixed it is part of the base frame. You CAN'T have something fixed on one variant and have it not be there on others, that's not how omnimechs work.

Your example of the Warhawk have a crapton of fixed heat sinks on the left side, for example. Those are fixed, which means they are on EVERY Warhawk. That's what being fixed means. Fixed. Immovable. Cannot be taken out. I don't understand why people seem to be having a hard time with this concept.

[That Dawg]

I'm not......I'd love to have endo on my Nova and strip those jumpjets off, save one, and fill with heatsinks
gimme that, and you could drop those arms another four feet

Hell. you could put all 12 lasers in the FEET for that matter!

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

Escef, on 28 September 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

Your example of the Warhawk have a crapton of fixed heat sinks on the left side, for example. Those are fixed, which means they are on EVERY Warhawk. That's what being fixed means. Fixed. Immovable. Cannot be taken out. I don't understand why people seem to be having a hard time with this concept.

We're "having a hard time" because you're not understanding what we are saying.

Case in point: The Direwolf. The Prime and -A configs have no hardpoints in the Center Torso, but the -B variant has an Energy hardpoint. So we already know variants can have integral differences.

So, have the TBR-S head/CT assembly have one or two set JJs in the CT, then set all the other TBR pieces (Prime and -C cores; as well as all omnipods, -S included) to a maximum JJ fitting of 0. Then the only way to get a jump-capable TBR is to use the -S chassis.

[n r g]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 28 September 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

We're "having a hard time" because you're not understanding what we are saying.

Case in point: The Direwolf. The Prime and -A configs have no hardpoints in the Center Torso, but the -B variant has an Energy hardpoint. So we already know variants can have integral differences.

So, have the TBR-S head/CT assembly have one or two set JJs in the CT, then set all the other TBR pieces (Prime and -C cores; as well as all omnipods, -S included) to a maximum JJ fitting of 0. Then the only way to get a jump-capable TBR is to use the -S chassis.

you don't need an S- "chassis"

you merely need only 1 pod so for example, an "S rt torso" will make any Timberwolf jump

Edited by E N E R G Y, 28 September 2014 - 01:14 PM.

[HashtagComStarWasRight]

E N E R G Y, on 28 September 2014 - 01:12 PM, said:

you don't need an S- "chassis"

you merely need only 1 pod so for example, an "S rt torso" will make any Timberwolf jump

Yes, we(I) am saying that I would prefer it if none of the -S omnipods allowed you to have JJs - only the core chassis (-S head/CT assembly) with one or two hardwired into it.

Well, I'd like it even better if no TBR config could jump, because that would help the Summoner be a bit more relevant, but that ship has sailed.

[n r g]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 28 September 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Yes, we(I) am saying that I would prefer it if none of the -S omnipods allowed you to have JJs - only the core chassis (-S head/CT assembly) with one or two hardwired into it.

Well, I'd like it even better if no TBR config could jump, because that would help the Summoner be a bit more relevant, but that ship has sailed.

well good luck getting that (it won't happen)

Also very trivial, since most of the power of the TBR comes from the durability of it's XL engine (speed, durability) and firepower via lasers.

Weather it jumps or not is honestly, trivial. Even on maps like canyon.

[ShinobiHunter]

E N E R G Y, on 28 September 2014 - 02:24 PM, said:

well good luck getting that (it won't happen)

Also very trivial, since most of the power of the TBR comes from the durability of it's XL engine (speed, durability) and firepower via lasers.

Weather it jumps or not is honestly, trivial. Even on maps like canyon.

Pugging plays different than group drops (probably even more so with ultracomp) , so JJ's can make or break a mech for us scrubs.

@ Rhinehardt, you mean to say that if the Timby didn't have JJ's you would have been happy with the Summoner? I'm not sure I understand how that would have made the Summoner perform any different?

[Tesunie]

For the sake of argument (or ending one), I agree with the fixed hardpoints being across a whole omni chassis and was incorrect with my statement.

I think it would have just been better for PGI if they had just not included the S variant at all, and instead choose a different one all together to go into it's place. Probably would solve a lot of issues before they even happened.

However, the S is here, and it is here to stay. It was deemed effective in lore for a reason, so it rightly is still effective (just more so) in MW:O.

I wonder if the JJ options would be better if they were limited to selection on only the S "variant". (AKA: Only on the variant that is labeled as S. So, if you have the S CT, then you could place X JJs on it max (the whole mech), but even if you move the pods to the Prime, then the Prime still can't take the JJs.) I don't see how this could solve anything either, but at least then it might make things feel a but better?

Another possible option is more negative quarks (I can hear complaints on this already) on the S chassis side torso pods. Don't ask me what quarks this could be though.



The Thor may just need a more cunning use of it's frame, as it certainly isn't going to be a pure meta mech. It just may take a while for people to figure out it's role, and how it can be made to work for them. Same with the Nova, but I think the Nova has slowly been finding a role, as I have been seeing many of them around. (This reminds me of my Battlemaster. Lets just say, when I had it to a loadout that wasn't good for me, I hated it. Took me a long while to figure out what worked for me on that chassis, but once I did it became a blast to play!)

ShinobiHunter, on 28 September 2014 - 04:40 PM, said:

@ Rhinehardt, you mean to say that if the Timby didn't have JJ's you would have been happy with the Summoner? I'm not sure I understand how that would have made the Summoner perform any different?

If the Thor was the only heavy clan mech to be able to jump, then it would help define it's role better on the battlefield, similar to how the Uller is useful and can have a more defined role because it (currently) is the only clan (light) mech that can take ECM. I can't say taking JJs away from the Mad Cat would make the Thor more effective, but it could help balance the power between the two chassis?

[Thejuggla]

I run mine 6 medium 6 small 4 mgs, I find it a decent mech. You wont be alphaing due to ghost heat but staggering the weapons without hitting ghost heat you'll strip armor off most mechs allowing to take advantage of mg crits while you cooldown.

[Alan Hicks]

Nova an useless Mech ? That´s heresy !

I was so glad finally good clan tech was made available to the public. Now I try not to miss a day playing at least one game with the Nova.

It really was a great change trying clan tech, such a BIG difference. Can´t wait for November to get that MadCat.

[Escef]

HashtagComStarWasRight, on 28 September 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

So, have the TBR-S head/CT assembly have one or two set JJs in the CT, then set all the other TBR pieces (Prime and -C cores; as well as all omnipods, -S included) to a maximum JJ fitting of 0. Then the only way to get a jump-capable TBR is to use the -S chassis.

Which would limit you to only 2 jump jets, the S has 5.

Tesunie, on 28 September 2014 - 05:04 PM, said:

I wonder if the JJ options would be better if they were limited to selection on only the S "variant". (AKA: Only on the variant that is labeled as S. So, if you have the S CT, then you could place X JJs on it max (the whole mech), but even if you move the pods to the Prime, then the Prime still can't take the JJs.) I don't see how this could solve anything either, but at least then it might make things feel a but better?

And this is also a pointful observation. If you HAVE to use the S CT, what's to stop someone from swapping pods in from other variants? It doesn't actually solve anything. The only real change would be that Timbies with c-bill bonuses (Invasion and Gold) wouldn't have jets, and other Timbies would basically never see play.