215 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Yes indeed.

I had to sit there and really examine the issue. Why do some players facing the Clans not have any particular issue with them, yet others, just absolutely get their panties puckered and cry "OP! OP!"?

Then I had an epiphany. The Majority of Clan Weapons are Damage Over Time. Given a chance to unleash their full power, they do tend to have a Higher DPS, and also a potentially higher Alpha Potential.

Mind you, good players seldom worry about DPS, but this led me to the answer.


IF........... you insist on standing out in the open, especially in big, slow mechs, and doubly especially without the benefit of ECM or massed AMS....... Clan Tech is OP.

IF........... you regularly get into staring matches with your opponent....... Clan Tech is OP.

IF........... you cannot reliably put the majority of your return fire into one section of your opponent..... especially when it's staring back at you....... Clan Tech is OP.

If you do all these things, have trouble walking and chewing gum at the same time, and regularly stare into the sun, you will indeed find Clan Tech OP.

The good news, is there is a cure. No, not to Nerf Clan Tech. Or to Buff Inner Sphere Mechs. No silly rabbit, the cure? It's to learn NOT to stand out in the open, not to get into staring matches with your opponent and to aim effectively, without panicking at return fire.

So indeed noble Forum Warriors, the power to defeat the Clans is indeed right in your very hands!!!!


Also, if the whole world is against, you and everything is OP, this may enlighten you as to why:
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry3466680

you´re welcome!

Also, have noticed a trend that exacerbates the "Clan superiority" mythos. People are so scared of Clan Tech (just like they are of LRMs) that they turtle and huddle and mewl, even WORSE than they did against IS Mechs.

Thus, they huddle up like fish in a barrel, and take themselves out of the fight. And thus, they lose, and thus, become a self fulfilling prophecy of "Clan Superiority".

*Does this mean Clan Tech is perfect, or doesn't need tweaking? Of course not. But then, look at just how out of whack a lot of IS tech is, even when compared to other IS tech. It's a process, but the basic balance is very very close.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 21 June 2014 - 02:33 PM.

[BourbonFaucet]

I wonder how many times I'll get to post this:

Clans are not OP if you're smart. And if you still don't believe me, there's always ECM and the pooptart PPC/AC meta that's far more OP than anything team test tube can cook up.

[Biglead]

So the answer is not to Buff/Nerf everything, but instead to have an amazing tutorial which actually teaches people how to play the game and understand the mechanics?




I'm reporting you for trolling.

[ScarecrowES]

Oh noes... not logic. Damn my eyes.

You mean I can't just sign up on day one, build a crappy un-optimized mech, drop into a pug match, run off solo, jump out of some bushes in front of 2 enemy lances, and not blast them all into oblivion? Whaaaaat?!

Tactics? What does that even mean? It sounds like a made up word people who don't do stupid things in matches use to describe that whole "not doing stupid things in matches" thing.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 21 June 2014 - 12:26 PM.

[Sephlock]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

Or to Buff Inner Sphere Mechs.

Meanwhile, a lone tear trickles out of the corner of the viewport of an Awesome.

[Bishop Steiner]

Techorse, on 21 June 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

I wonder how many times I'll get to post this:

Clans are not OP if you're smart. And if you still don't believe me, there's always ECM and the pooptart PPC/AC meta that's far more OP than anything team test tube can cook up.

Well, IDK, did you read the OP?

[Khobai]

Quote

Yes indeed.

I had to sit there and really examine the issue. Why do some players facing the Clans not have any particular issue with them, yet others, just absolutely get their panties puckered and cry "OP! OP!"?

Then I had an epiphany. The Majority of Clan Weapons are Damage Over Time. Given a chance to unleash their full power, they do tend to have a Higher DPS, and also a potentially higher Alpha Potential.

Mind you, good players seldom worry about DPS, but this led me to the answer.

To truly appreciate the disparity between Clan and IS mechs you would have to do a 12v12 with all clan mechs on one side and all IS mechs on the other side.

You simply cannot fully comprehend the difference in power level when theres an even mix of Clan mechs on both teams.

[BourbonFaucet]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:24 PM, said:

Well, IDK, did you read the OP?

I did.

Don't sit there like a moron in front of the clans expecting grace. Got it.

I'm just pitching in my own complaints because it's fun, Bishop. Someday I'm gonna be that old guy telling kids to get off my lawn too. :3

[Bishop Steiner]

Biglead, on 21 June 2014 - 12:22 PM, said:

So the answer is not to Buff/Nerf everything, but instead to have an amazing tutorial which actually teaches people how to play the game and understand the mechanics?




I'm reporting you for trolling.

Tutorial? You give people waaaaay too much credit.
http://mwomercs.com/...80#entry3466680

[Fang01]

I was playing real army during the pre patch tests and invasion drop and have only had two nights to really try out the new stuff.

Impressions

Quickly realized that almost all of the clan stuff is hitscan or dot and for the most part this is no big deal because after a couple years of focusing on fld much of the community blows with dot weapons. Those of us who previously focused on laser builds are having a field day. Even the longer duration is less of an issue as I was burning lights at distance with the long burn giving plenty of time to hold on target

Clan art looks good but really blows for combat, as predicted I've found a couple of times already where I could burn a Ryoken's shoulders off from how ludicrisly high they are or take advantage of a protruding snout

The Madcat seems to have replaced the Atlas as the new goto ride for the can't pilot to save my life set. Timmys have become a slur in my unit and I take obnoxious pleasure in killing them

Dont get caught in a tunnel with a Black Hawk. Ever.

[Koniks]

Looking at my stats: my performance is slightly better in the Clan mechs (+30 damage per game and +.2 kills/game) compared to my overall performance since the reset. I've run a few matches in my mastered SHD-2D2 and ON1-VA and didn't notice much change but I haven't tracked those stats on a per game basis.

Getting the Atlas DDC through basics was a chore, though. I'm not looking forward to the other 2 variants.

Edited by Mizeur, 21 June 2014 - 12:29 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Khobai, on 21 June 2014 - 12:25 PM, said:

To truly appreciate the disparity between Clan and IS mechs you would have to do a 12v12 with all clan mechs on one side and all IS mechs on the other side.

You simply cannot fully comprehend the difference in power level when theres an even mix of Clan mechs on both teams.

Not really needed tbh, though believe it or not, it has also been done. All the things that have been listed as pros and cons about the clans, pretty much hold true.

I don't need to go into depth, when I have already given the overview many times, already.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-the-invasion/

[Wolfways]

Bishop Steiner, on 21 June 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

*Sense*

You do realize you are wasting your time right? We've been saying basically the same things about LRM's for two years now

[Rebas Kradd]

Does this mean the Clans might actually encourage smarter play?

Wow. This Clan pack might have been the most brilliant thing PGI has ever done.

[-Natural Selection-]

Only issue I am having, especially in lights. Even though it is dot, if you get even get touched with some of these 12+ laser builds you are toasted.

[ScarecrowES]

Rebas Kradd, on 21 June 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Does this mean the Clans might actually encourage smarter play?

Wow. This Clan pack might have been the most brilliant thing PGI has ever done.

Nope... it will merely encourage complaints about things that are harder to do having any theoretical reward to them... like everything else has been in MWO ever. If you can't get the same reward for doing something easy as you do for something hard, then it's OP and should be nerfed. On the other hand, if something is easy and powerful too, it should also be nerfed. Also, "anything that kills me" should be nerfed. And "anything I suck at" should be nerfed.

Edited by ScarecrowES, 21 June 2014 - 12:40 PM.

[Papaspud]

Yes, because no one ever gets flanked and shot from the back, everybody is a perfect pilot, nobody ever looks over a hill, and clan mechs aren't a little too strong. They are going to be the death of this game as it divides the haves and the have nots. The bright side for the clanners..... soon they wont have to worry about many IS mechs, because most people that play them will quit. Have fun, until it starts taking 10 minutes to find a match, because everybody has decided they don't want to be a target.

If you like hide warrior online, well then IS mechs are perfect, if you want to actually fight back in the game- not just trying to get a shot off, then have to run and hide...... get a clan mech. It really isn't any fun to consistently get killed every time you move out of cover for 30 seconds, just way too much firepower.

I have already noticed that lights and mediums are disappearing from the battlefield, they just can't absorb the damage the clan mechs can dish out. Last night there was more assaults or heavies than meds and lights combined, it was that way most of the evening.

[Bishop Steiner]

My latest "Inner Sphere Morning" batch of matches, running *gasp* non meta builds.

Spoiler

WHOA! I felt so outgunned!
btw, the builds ran:
JM6-DD
GRF-1N
JM6-A
ON1-VA

and there was a 5th match, also in the Orion. Didn't screenshot it, we got rolled 12-1, despite hvite 7-8 Omnis. Because it doesn't matter what you drive, when you huddle and pucker up like a bunch of pantywaists, you lose. And even in my favorite mech, it's hard to do much 8v1.

What am I saying? I'm a mildly above average player, who eschews meta builds, and runs solo, most of the time. If I can run against Clan Tech, and LRMs and thrive, and you can't? The Tech is NOT the problem.

Wolfways, on 21 June 2014 - 12:31 PM, said:

You do realize you are wasting your time right? We've been saying basically the same things about LRM's for two years now

True, but it's fun to see people froth.

Plus I'm curious to see how many "Flaming Locky" award winners we will see?

[Aresye]

Don't be throwing logic out there Bishop! It doesn't matter if the majority of the forum thinks the balance is good or needs some minor tweaks. Jun, Shreadhead, Atheus, and lockwoodx are going to respond soon, and as the self-proclaimed gods of MWO, they are going to enlighten us all as to why glow sticks are OP.

Edited by Aresye, 21 June 2014 - 12:46 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Rebas Kradd, on 21 June 2014 - 12:36 PM, said:

Does this mean the Clans might actually encourage smarter play?

Wow. This Clan pack might have been the most brilliant thing PGI has ever done.

Sadly, that is an impossibility, as smart play begins with taking responsibility for your own failures. People are loathe to do that at the best of times, and Gamers, on the Internet? That's like salt to a slug, or sun to a vampire.

No instead it will simply do what it already has, bring out the QQ Legions to cry that something else is killing them now, so NERF IT!!!!!!