894 replies to this topic

[RaKa]

5 days into the launch and people already want a knee jerk nerf bat to the clan mechs? I've heard some want the -S timberwolf variant removed totally, others specifically want the weapons or how the mech walks / functions to be changed dramatically.

If that's the case give me a refund. I want what was promised.

[Gyrok]

heimdelight, on 22 June 2014 - 11:59 AM, said:

I don't know how else to solve this issue of being able to prove my analysis to you other than organizing a literally unbeatable team of 12 timberwolves, or beating you 1v1 with a timberwolf over and over and over again until you believe it with the loadout and issues I described.

What would convince you that what I was saying is the reality? High-skill play is honestly what matters most, adjusting values for low-skill environments is not the way to balance a video-game. It never has been, it isn't the case for DoTA/LoL/Starcraft obviously.

EXACTLY MY POINT...SKILL IS OP...the machine you put someone in has less impact given similar/equal weapons.

If even the top tier competitive players start crying for a nerf hammer to EVERYTHING ELSE but the current meta, and PGI is begged to listen then we will never escape what we have and the game cannot grow.

As for personal challenges...I have never been one to back down from a zellbrigen contest.

[Aresye]

Adiuvo, on 22 June 2014 - 12:38 PM, said:

I don't think you read his post, at all. He's calling for nerfs to the PPC/gauss Timberwolf. We've also had zero problems 'getting' that Timberwolf to work fine. I think Heim's W/L in that thing with around 200 matches is at a 7.5, and his KDR is in the 8s. Very weak mech, as you can see. Completely gets outclassed by... like everything.

No, he's calling for nerfs against the torso twist, speed, and brawling capabilities of the Timberwolf, which doesn't impact the jump snipers at all, as proven with the same nerfs that hit the Victor.

[Treysef]

You can only fire 2 Gauss at the same time now, so why not add that mechanic to PPCs and link it with Guass? Firing 2 Gauss, okay. Firing 1 Gauss 1 PPC, that's fine. Firing 2 PPC, whatever. Anything more is a big ol' nope. Then the Awesome could get a quirk to up the firing limit and ghost heat limit to 3 PPCs.

Combine this with reticule shake while in the air, not just while jumping, and JJ heat and I think we'd be on the right track.

[Reported for Inappropriate Name]

Gyrok, on 22 June 2014 - 12:40 PM, said:

EXACTLY MY POINT...SKILL IS OP...the machine you put someone in has less impact given similar/equal weapons.

If even the top tier competitive players start crying for a nerf hammer to EVERYTHING ELSE but the current meta, and PGI is begged to listen then we will never escape what we have and the game cannot grow.

As for personal challenges...I have never been one to back down from a zellbrigen contest.

I have more problems with the players than the games, mainly because its the players that cause the steamrolls.



Although, I do have a big complaint with conquest. My complaint is that a team with one almost dead mech left can win vs a team with 7-8. If we're supposed to be fighting a war, one side doesn't just go "YOU COLLECTED AN ARBITRARY NUMBER OF RESOURCE GUESS WE CAN'T KILL YOU NOW." No, They kill the last guy and loot the resources from the opposition.

Edited by Battlecruiser, 22 June 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[Pygar]

Aresye, on 22 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

No, he's calling for nerfs against the torso twist, speed, and brawling capabilities of the Timberwolf, which doesn't impact the jump snipers at all, as proven with the same nerfs that hit the Victor.

Well, how about we just wait for the Jump Jet Nerf and go from there then.

[JohnSoloman]

Pygar, on 22 June 2014 - 12:47 PM, said:

Well, how about we just wait for the Jump Jet Nerf and go from there then.

Yes because nerfing the symptom and not the cause will surely solve everything.

Try to play a mech with JJ's as much as you can before it becomes too much trouble to even equip them. Then again the poor summoner can't take them out.

[Adiuvo]

Aresye, on 22 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

No, he's calling for nerfs against the torso twist, speed, and brawling capabilities of the Timberwolf, which doesn't impact the jump snipers at all, as proven with the same nerfs that hit the Victor.

Quote

2xClan ERPPCs is ridiculously overpowered. Following the current implemented Ghost Heat rule, firing two should cause Ghost Heat. This will require two separate shots, and if you want pinpoint, it's at the penalty of quite a bit of heat.

I don't particularly want to get into a discussion on how the Victor nerfs did impact it's jumpsniping ability, but anyways...

The Timberwolf being as fast as it is is an overpowered part on the chassis itself, and it doesn't matter if it's brawling or if it's sniping. It is still much better than the other chassis, due to this.

Brawling hasn't been in a place for anyone to complain about in ages due to SRMs being broke, and now that they're fixed it's still not due to the range boost on combat that clans have brought to the table.

Edited by Adiuvo, 22 June 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[Pygar]

JohnSoloman, on 22 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yes because nerfing the symptom and not the cause will surely solve everything.

Try to play a mech with JJ's as much as you can before it becomes too much trouble to even equip them. Then again the poor summoner can't take them out.

The JJ nerf is supposed to hinder mechs that have only 1 or 2 JJs (which is 90% of all "meta" builds, including 2PPC+Gauss T-wolves) and not really effect mechs with full JJs. (like the Thor)

Edited by Pygar, 22 June 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Tell you what have PGI fix sniping and then un-nerf the handling of Victors and you will have an answer to Timber Wolves.

Quote

The JJ nerf is supposed to hinder mechs that have only 1 or 2 JJs (which is 90% of all "meta" builds) and not really effect mechs with full JJs. (like the Thor)

But it does because the more jump jets you have the more heat you make.

[Pygar]

XX Sulla XX, on 22 June 2014 - 12:55 PM, said:

Tell you what have PGI fix sniping and then un-nerf the handling of Victors and you will have an answer to Timber Wolves.

But it does because the more jump jets you have the more heat you make.

Well, then they are doing it wrong- which doesn't surprise me, because the simple fact that they made the Summoner stuck with it's Jump Jets ON PURPOSE to limit it's options, but the T-wolf can just move it's Jump Jets around as the pilot feels kind of shows that PGI doesn't really get what the problem is. (That they could nerf almost ever pop-tart in the game by just forcing them to take full Jump Jets instead of letting them skimp on JJs and have better weapons and armor instead....and the upcoming nerf is the third time they have had to "look into" Jump Jets for the exact same problem.)

As far as problems with Sniping- the problems I see is that many snipers can brawl just fine, they just have the option not to vs. "brawler mechs" which are almost entirely fit for close range AND there are no countermeasures you can take to mess with snipers, like the "Smoke Dispenser" idea I keep mentioning but everybody ignores (because they know if such a thing existed it would piss them off bigtime) AND that we have other long range weapons that should be good at fighting snipers, but any time LRMs start getting good people whine and cry up a storm.

[Gyrok]

Adiuvo, on 22 June 2014 - 12:10 PM, said:

I don't care who you drop against dude... like really, I don't. I don't care what CSJ and GK are doing.

I care about what top people and top teams in the game are doing. Which is basically what Heim has posted. ERPPC/Gauss, much like PPC/Gauss or PPC/AC5 before it, is beating everything else. The problem is that the clan versions of these weapons, when taking into account overall clan mechanics, are much stronger than their IS versions. If anyone thought the standard 'meta' builds were OP before then they're in for a surprise once people begin using the clan meta builds.


You're right, it doesn't.

Unfortunately Heim's analysis is spot on, and you seem to think so to considering you didn't raise any points against it.


all of my lols.

I could not care less what you think, frankly, he posted his opinion on the internet for all to see, and I posted mine, and dropping in the same groups against the same players my perspective is different. Your egotism and elitist attitude does you no favors...

How about you go back to where you came from and come out when I ask for your opinion...?

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

Well, then they are doing it wrong- which doesn't surprise me, because the simple fact that they made the Summoner stuck with it's Jump Jets ON PURPOSE to limit it's options, but the T-wolf can just move it's Jump Jets around as the pilot feels kind of shows that PGI doesn't really get what the problem is. (That they could nerf almost ever pop-tart in the game by just forcing them to take full Jump Jets instead of letting them skimp on JJs and have better weapons and armor instead....and the upcoming nerf is the third time they have had to "look into" Jump Jets for the exact same problem.)

As far as problems with Sniping- the problems I see is that many snipers can brawl just fine, they just have the option not to vs. "brawler mechs" which are almost entirely fit for close range AND there are no countermeasures you can take to mess with snipers, like the "Smoke Dispenser" idea I keep mentioning but everybody ignores (because they know if such a thing existed it would piss them off bigtime) AND that we have other long range weapons that should be good at fighting snipers, but any time LRMs start getting good people whine and cry up a storm.

Honestly the problems are with pin point damage not with jumping. But ya force people to use at least 4 jump jets and limit pin point damage and stop nerfing handling. That works for me

[Adiuvo]

Gyrok, on 22 June 2014 - 01:15 PM, said:

I could not care less what you think, frankly, he posted his opinion on the internet for all to see, and I posted mine, and dropping in the same groups against the same players my perspective is different. Your egotism and elitist attitude does you no favors...

How about you go back to where you came from and come out when I ask for your opinion...?

You posted your opinion on the internet for all to see, and I posted mine in response

I backed up my points with facts about the game in an effort to promote discussion.

Evidently you don't want discussion

[Roland]

The calls of l2p coming from certain individuals targeted at certain other individuals is amusing in this thread.

[Mystere]

Adiuvo, on 22 June 2014 - 12:51 PM, said:

The Timberwolf being as fast as it is is an overpowered part on the chassis itself, and it doesn't matter if it's brawling or if it's sniping. It is still much better than the other chassis, due to this.

But, but, but ... strictly enforcing 3/3/3/3 will take care of that. Add IS and Clan separation and the Timber Wolf will be indirectly nerfed.

[1453 R]

heimdelight, on 22 June 2014 - 11:30 AM, said:

Also, since I believe this 'Mech deserves it's own section, the Timberwolf is an atrocity on balance in this game and needs to be nerfed. It is 75tons, goes 89kph, and is better than all of Clan Assaults, Heavys, Mediums, and Lights at literally everything. It can loadout nearly anything, and can out maneuver anything. This is a massive issue.
...
For the Timberwolf: The acceleration, twist rate, jumpjet speed, the whole nine yards needs to hit it. It has above average hitboxes which make it difficult to hit when moving quickly or torso twisting fast.

OH MY FREAKING GAWD, DID THE VICTOR GIGANERF TEACH US GODDAMN NOTHING?!

You want to take a 'Mech that devotes a third of its total weight to a massive engine, so that it may reap the advantages of improved mobility at the cost of weight and space to mount a heavy armament...and then take away its advantages of speed and mobility?!

I want my goddamn brawling Victors back, I don't want the Timber Wolf to suffer the same goddamned poptarts-only Nerf of Death they handed down to what was once one of my favorite chassis! if this is what twelve-man comp bracket players want to do to the game, then I am proud of being a no-talent solo-dropping scrub! SCREW you guys!

LEAVE THE GODDAMN TIMBER WOLF ALONE. I already lost my Victors to this "It's too fast for its size and too big for its speed!" bullshit. Some of us arenot PPC-spamming poptarts in every single f***ing match we play, and the seventeen strike pilots left in MWO would like ONE GODDAMN 'MECH above forty tons that doesn't move like a paraplegic whale!

Also, and I have never meant this more in the entire brief time it's been a thing: ATTN, SIR. ATTN

Friggin' hell...I swear, league players don't even know what variety is anymore. The only thing the Timber Wolf needs is for the S-variant pods to not be as derptastic-obvious a choice as they currently are. Killing the thing's everything because some butthurt comp guys don't like a 'Mech that remembers what legs are for? Screw that goddamn noise, man...

Edited by 1453 R, 22 June 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Quote

The Timberwolf being as fast as it is is an overpowered part on the chassis itself, and it doesn't matter if it's brawling or if it's sniping. It is still much better than the other chassis, due to this.

The problem is the nerfing they did to other mechs in their attempt to fix sniping. A Victor can go 85 or 89 if you have the DS. These mechs should be the answer to the TW but PGI nerfed there turning until they have the same turn speed as a 100 ton Atlas. PGI needs to do three things.

1. Fix pinpoint high alpha sniping.

2. Fix the Victor turning.

3. Make full jump jets mandatory on all mechs that can mount them.

Quote

OH MY FREAKING GAWD, DID THE VICTOR GIGANERF TEACH US GODDAMN NOTHING?!

You want to take a 'Mech that devotes a third of its total weight to a massive engine, so that it may reap the advantages of improved mobility at the cost of weight and space to mount a heavy armament...and then take away its advantages of speed and mobility?!

I want my goddamn brawling Victors back, I don't want the Timber Wolf to suffer the same goddamned poptarts-only Nerf of Death they handed down to what was once one of my favorite chassis! if this is what twelve-man comp bracket players want to do to the game, then I am proud of being a no-talent solo-dropping scrub! SCREW you guys!

LEAVE THE GODDAMN TIMBER WOLF ALONE. I already lost my Victors to this "It's too fast for its size and too big for its speed!" bullshit. Some of us arenot PPC-spamming poptarts in every single f***ing match we play, and the seventeen strike pilots left in MWO would like ONE GODDAMN 'MECH above forty tons that doesn't move like a paraplegic whale!

Also, and I have never meant this more in the entire brief time it's been a thing: ATTN, SIR. ATTN

Friggin' hell...I swear, league players don't even know what variety is anymore. The only thing the Timber Wolf needs is for the S-variant pods to not be as derptastic-obvious a choice as they currently are. Killing the thing's everything because some butthurt comp guys don't like a 'Mech that remembers what legs are for? Screw that goddamn noise, man...

See thats how I feel also Just want my Victor brawlers back and you can keep your sniping.

[Exilyth]

The timber wolf model could be scaled up a bit, it does look a wee bit small for a heavy.

[RaKa]

1453 R, on 22 June 2014 - 01:31 PM, said:

OH MY FREAKING GAWD, DID THE VICTOR GIGANERF TEACH US GODDAMN NOTHING?!

You want to take a 'Mech that devotes a third of its total weight to a massive engine, so that it may reap the advantages of improved mobility at the cost of weight and space to mount a heavy armament...and then take away its advantages of speed and mobility?!

I want my goddamn brawling Victors back, I don't want the Timber Wolf to suffer the same goddamned poptarts-only Nerf of Death they handed down to what was once one of my favorite chassis! if this is what twelve-man comp bracket players want to do to the game, then I am proud of being a no-talent solo-dropping scrub! SCREW you guys!

LEAVE THE GODDAMN TIMBER WOLF ALONE. I already lost my Victors to this "It's too fast for its size and too big for its speed!" bullshit. Some of us arenot PPC-spamming poptarts in every single f***ing match we play, and the seventeen strike pilots left in MWO would like ONE GODDAMN 'MECH above forty tons that doesn't move like a paraplegic whale!

Also, and I have never meant this more in the entire brief time it's been a thing: ATTN, SIR. ATTN

Friggin' hell...I swear, league players don't even know what variety is anymore. The only thing the Timber Wolf needs is for the S-variant pods to not be as derptastic-obvious a choice as they currently are. Killing the thing's everything because some butthurt comp guys don't like a 'Mech that remembers what legs are for? Screw that goddamn noise, man...

Bravo sir. Bravo. Seriously, don't touch my beloved Timberwolf...

Edited by RaKa, 22 June 2014 - 01:45 PM.