894 replies to this topic

[SilentWolff]

This thread is a colossal waste of time and effort. I don't care who you are or how good you may think you are. Calling for nerfs after 5 DAYS is ridiculous. As are the suggestions about ghost heat to clan ERPPC's or longer burn times on clan ER Lasers.
Funny the complaining about lights and mediums as well. I have no problem dominating in them. Hell, my best stats are in Cicada and Spider and yes I'm talking in 12 man's too. No one is forcing you to take short range lights for mop up duty. If that's the only way you know how go play a light mech, you may not be as good as you think you are.

[Roland]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

This thread is a colossal waste of time and effort. I don't care who you are or how good you may think you are. Calling for nerfs after 5 DAYS is ridiculous. As are the suggestions about ghost heat to clan ERPPC's or longer burn times on clan ER Lasers.
Funny the complaining about lights and mediums as well. I have no problem dominating in them. Hell, my best stats are in Cicada and Spider and yes I'm talking in 12 man's too. No one is forcing you to take short range lights for mop up duty. If that's the only way you know how go play a light mech, you may not be as good as you think you are.

You should play again Aduvio in lights and show us who's boss.

[R Razor]

Roland, on 24 June 2014 - 07:39 AM, said:

Every rational person agrees that understanding the rules of a game are usually a critical aspect to success in that game.

Your expectation that other people handicap themselves in order to play within your minimized view of what the game should be, is naive and irrational.

This isn't to suggest that improving game balance to make more varied mech builds and tactics viable would not be a great thing.. and indeed, would be welcomed by virtually all of the most competitive players. Competitive players tend to enjoy games which reward skill, and by increasing the viability of different play styles, it increases the depth of that game, and thus the skill required (as increased depth increases the understanding required to master a game).

But your attempt to minimize the skill of those who can consistently defeat you in the game is nonsensical, and it comes off as you simply crying about getting beaten.

If you want to improve the metagame, then you need to get PGI to change the game. But you can't fault those players who optimize their play around the CURRENT state of the game.

I don't expect anyone to handicap themselves at all, I am merely pointing out that what you perceive as skill is not really skill at all or at least not the kind of skill you might wish us to believe it is. PGI is ultimately the entity that has to address (or not address) the glaring issues of PP FLD and the current meta. I play the game either way, I just don't claim to be super elite when I jump into my DragonSlayer and rack up kills on pugs and other non meta mechs because I realize that if PGI ever did something to eliminate those exploitable issues that things would change.

As for my getting beaten, I win more than I lose by a relatively significant amount and I kill more than I get killed by a much larger margin.......none of that matters however as the issue is not with winning or losing or killing or dying, it's with someone that makes his living (in this game) in a meta mech whining and calling for nerfs to what he perceives to be a better meta mech......and then having all his strap hangers (or Cling Ons if you prefer) rush to defend his ridiculous cries for said nerf.

Edited by R Razor, 24 June 2014 - 07:51 AM.

[pwnface]

R Razor, on 24 June 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

I don't expect anyone to handicap themselves at all, I am merely pointing out that what you perceive as skill is not really skill at all. PGI is ultimately the entity that has to address (or not address) the glaring issues of PP FLD and the current meta. I play the game either way, I just don't claim to be super elite when I jump into my DragonSlayer and rack up kills on pugs and other non meta mechs because I realize that if PGI ever did something to eliminate those exploitable issues that things would change.

Will you at least concede that if two teams running meta builds fight each other and one team wins that team has more skill than the other? Or are you saying all the top competitive teams facing each other all have equally no skill because they run meta builds? Your definition of skill seems to belong only to anyone who doesn't choose to play the metagame.

If PGI changed MWO to completely remove jump sniping you think HoL and SJR wouldn't still be at the top of the competitive food chain?

[Pygar]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

This thread is a colossal waste of time and effort. I don't care who you are or how good you may think you are. Calling for nerfs after 5 DAYS is ridiculous. As are the suggestions about ghost heat to clan ERPPC's or longer burn times on clan ER Lasers.
Funny the complaining about lights and mediums as well. I have no problem dominating in them. Hell, my best stats are in Cicada and Spider and yes I'm talking in 12 man's too. No one is forcing you to take short range lights for mop up duty. If that's the only way you know how go play a light mech, you may not be as good as you think you are.

Yeah, 30 some odd pages of unproductive argument and e-peen measuring later this thread is producing no useful information whatsoever. Clans stuff should be out at least a month before we get too worried about nerfing them- I don't care if the Timber Wolf is threatening to change or overtake the "meta", plenty of people have been waiting for the "meta" mechs to go away one way or another for a long time- good riddance.

Edited by Pygar, 24 June 2014 - 07:55 AM.

[R Razor]

Yeah I'd concede that no matter the load out of the mech, if two individuals (not teams but individuals) faced off in the exact same mech, under the current game mechanic, then the winner is more skilled than the loser.

As for teams, team skill is not necessarily indicative of individual skill as two teams of 12 Dragonslayers may look equal on paper but player A on team A may not have the same twitch reflexes that player A on team B has, however other players on Team A may have better reflexes on the majority on B.

[SilentWolff]

Roland, on 24 June 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

You should play again Aduvio in lights and show us who's boss.

Wasn't the arguement that lights can only do mop up duty in 12 mans, or are we measuring epeen in 1V1 epeen contests? I stand by my last statement. I can't remember the last 12man we lost and would be more than happy to play ANY team that thinks their way is the only way to win 12 man's.

I love how people win an insignificant tourney that no one will remember in a month and think they are now the final word on MWO balance. CSJ won the Templar tourney this weekend, does that mean we can come on the forum now and post nonsense threads and be expected to be taken seriously?

[Wispsy]

R Razor, on 24 June 2014 - 07:45 AM, said:

I just don't claim to be super elite when I jump into my DragonSlayer and rack up kills on pugs and other non meta mechs

Neither does heim...what he did do though was rack up kills against some of the best players in this game playing the best mechs in serious matches in which EVERYBODY wants to win badly.

Edited by Wispsy, 24 June 2014 - 08:08 AM.

[Malckovich]

Having just returned to this game after a 6 month break, I am not happy nor impressed with the state of the game. The imbalance is rampant. TTL is nonexistent for anything below assault while at the same time having outrageous TTK. Speed is pretty worthless as well. Welcome to the power creep many of my friends and I have long feared with the addition of Clans. I wholeheartedly concur with the OP. I urge the devs to get the weapons and equipment balanced and go back to the original armor values. I enjoy Mechwarrior for the back and forth tactical play, the positioning and intense dogfights. What we have now is "I saw him first, alpha'd and the match was over. Spent 4 minutes walking to a fight that ended in less than 5 seconds."

The game has not been moving in a positive direction.

[Wispsy]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

I love how people win an insignificant tourney that no one will remember in a month and think they are now the final word on MWO balance. CSJ won the Templar tourney this weekend, does that mean we can come on the forum now and post nonsense threads and be expected to be taken seriously?

Why would anybody participating in the Templar tourney be taken seriously?

[Khobai]

Quote

Neither does heim...what he did do though was rack up kills against some of the best players in this game playing the best mechs in serious matches in whic EVERYBODY wants to win badly.

Still doesnt invalidate his point. Theres definitely too many tryhards in their Dragon Slayers that think theyre better than they actually are.

I would like to see a tournament that rolls up a completely random list of 12 mechs each game that both teams have to use. To me that would be a way better indication of skill. It would be interesting to see how good these players actually are without their poptart crutches.

Edited by Khobai, 24 June 2014 - 08:14 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 08:11 AM, said:

Why would anybody participating in the Templar tourney be taken seriously?

Here's a tip, this game is still considered a joke, so being the best at it doesn't really mean much for any of you.

[Pygar]

Wispsy, on 24 June 2014 - 08:05 AM, said:

Neither does heim...what he did do though was rack up kills against some of the best players in this game playing the best mechs in serious matches in whic EVERYBODY wants to win badly.

That's great and all, but like I said possibly as far back as 30 pages ago... for as much as I would like to hear his point of view on the subject it's hard not to suspect bias from an upper tier player, who possibly has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo rather than allowing new tech to have advantages.

I don't want to hear about Clan nerfs right now- I want to see the upcoming Jump Jet Nerf possibly do what people have been asking for a very long time: To put a goddam leash on "Pop Tart" mechs so that other types of mechs can be viable in that level of play too.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Khobai, on 24 June 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I would like to see a tournament that rolls up a completely random list of 12 mechs that both teams have to use. To me that would be a way better indication of skill.

Except none of them would participate for fear of looking bad.

[Adiuvo]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 07:43 AM, said:

This thread is a colossal waste of time and effort. I don't care who you are or how good you may think you are. Calling for nerfs after 5 DAYS is ridiculous. As are the suggestions about ghost heat to clan ERPPC's or longer burn times on clan ER Lasers.
Funny the complaining about lights and mediums as well. I have no problem dominating in them. Hell, my best stats are in Cicada and Spider and yes I'm talking in 12 man's too. No one is forcing you to take short range lights for mop up duty. If that's the only way you know how go play a light mech, you may not be as good as you think you are.

Long range lights aren't as useful as short range ones for a variety of reasons, but primarily due to their lack of utility during a late stage brawl which is where you have the most options anyways. Sniper lights are just weak versions of the mechs we already have, and if you're fighting anyone good there will hardly be enough shots for your actual snipers to take in the first place.

Lights in 12mans are fine. Lights in pubs are more annoying with the existence of SSRM6 boats with a 360m range and Daishis that can one shot you though. In 12mans these mechs are able to be dealt with easily by your team, so it's not that much of a problem.

Edited by Adiuvo, 24 June 2014 - 08:18 AM.

[Torgun]

Khobai, on 24 June 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Still doesnt invalidate his point. Theres definitely too many tryhards in their Dragon Slayers that think theyre better than they actually are.

I would like to see a tournament that rolls up a completely random list of 12 mechs that both teams have to use. To me that would be a way better indication of skill.

Scratch that, I want to see all Dragons and Awesomes, 6 on each side fighting it out. Since the "elite" players would never touch those mechs, it would be an awesome show

[Wispsy]

Khobai, on 24 June 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Still doesnt invalidate his point. Theres definitely too many tryhards in their Dragon Slayers that think theyre better than they actually are.

Yes there are...I fail to see how that means everybody piloting a DragonSlayer at any point (and who would not...it is hands down the best IS mech by miles) should be painted with the worst possible assumptions...

I mean I have done plenty of Dragon lances (+1 now) with people in this thread being accused of needing a crutch and we killed big masses of Dragonslayers...still does not make the Dragon a good mech (unless it is the 1c with 2ppc 2medlas because that is amazing obviously).

[Adiuvo]

SilentWolff, on 24 June 2014 - 08:04 AM, said:

Wasn't the arguement that lights can only do mop up duty in 12 mans, or are we measuring epeen in 1V1 epeen contests? I stand by my last statement. I can't remember the last 12man we lost and would be more than happy to play ANY team that thinks their way is the only way to win 12 man's.

I love how people win an insignificant tourney that no one will remember in a month and think they are now the final word on MWO balance. CSJ won the Templar tourney this weekend, does that mean we can come on the forum now and post nonsense threads and be expected to be taken seriously?

Didn't you guys scrim CSJ Alpha Galaxy and lose a few?

We also 3-0'd the MWO team that was on top for more than a year during that unofficial tourney (and had a match during the official), so I think it's a tad bit more meaningful than the Templar tourney... who was entered in that, btw?

I mean I'm not going to stick a 4man into the Beer Warriors tourney and screw up their good time when it's clear they're trying to have a fun comp league, not an all out serious one.

Edited by Adiuvo, 24 June 2014 - 08:17 AM.

[Wispsy]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 24 June 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

Here's a tip, this game is still considered a joke, so being the best at it doesn't really mean much for any of you.

I do not care how much of a joke this game is I am always at the top of games I play...so being at the top does not really mean that much to me no matter the game...

[Wispsy]

Pygar, on 24 June 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

That's great and all, but like I said possibly as far back as 30 pages ago... for as much as I would like to hear his point of view on the subject it's hard not to suspect bias from an upper tier player, who possibly has a vested interest in maintaining the status quo rather than allowing new tech to have advantages.

I don't want to hear about Clan nerfs right now- I want to see the upcoming Jump Jet Nerf possibly do what people have been asking for a very long time: To put a goddam leash on "Pop Tart" mechs so that other types of mechs can be viable in that level of play too.

You are so wrong it is crazy...talk about twisted If anything, Heim has a vested interest in keeping the Timberwolf overpowered if his motives were as you assume. He has it and every clan mech...he can already use it better then most people in this game will ever be able to. I do not think you understand the mindset of people who wish to become competitive players...boring is not the plan and never the goal.