65 replies to this topic

[ShinVector]

Lightfoot, on 01 July 2014 - 06:59 PM, said:

I am proving everyday that Radar Dep makes AMS unnecessary. Just duck behind something and poof, a weightless and spaceless piece of equipment knocks out all missiles. If you are not getting this result you are doing it wrong.

I would be fine with removing indirect target locks with LRMs completely if they did competitive damage with Line of Sight, but I do see the teamwork aspect of having Light mechs have a spotter role, so I know LRMs are saddled with the indirect fire support role in MWO.

Anyway, what is the counter for Radar Dep and what's the reward for overcoming it?

Hmmm... LRM forum trolls kept throwing the L2P at when people used cover and still got hit by LRMs.
Now you say that Radar Derp + Cover versus LRMs is suppose to be a bad thing ?

Meanwhile
Wait till your no min range Clan LRMs come.


Also let me quote myself since you didn't make it past page 2.

ShinVector, on 24 June 2014 - 01:01 AM, said:

Amazing how getting into 'Cover' to get out of LOS + Radar Derp against actually works against LRMs now ?
And no more corner bending BS from LRMs...




LOL... It should be simply understood and repeated numerous time before...

Let me repeat it again.

Radar Derp cannot:

• Radar Derp cannot stop a spotter from getting LOS from a different angle. The ECM light mech variety works better. The traditional secret sauce of making LRM boats devastating.. Worked since closed beta till now... Clan light with the full scouting suite have proven to be quite competent at the job.
  
• Radar Derp cannot stop spotting from a UAV. However I found that recently UAVs are very often deployed on that field nowadays.. Probably Clan Light pilots trying to get bonus UAV EXP... I am one of those always looking out for enemy UAVs and shooting them down.
  
• Radar Derp cannot stop NARC ! The new and improved LRM assisting evil from a few patches back. 30 seconds of LRM Storm of anybody that is NARCed.... Shutting down your mech does not help. Getting out of LOS does not help unless it is tall enough to block incoming LRMS.. !! ECM get shut down !!! What more do your need ?

Learn to adapt.

Aldoric, on 01 July 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

Seismic was nerfed because it was considered a "must have module"

If Rad Dep is Must Have now, something somewhere is wrong

Yep. Too many LRM boats, not every mech can equip ECM and the existence of Advance Target Decay.

Edited by ShinVector, 01 July 2014 - 09:51 PM.

[Errinovar]

Personally I think most of the arguments supporting Radar Dep are pretty bad when considered against other weapon types. Simply put there are more methods to shut down LRMs than any other weapon system in the game, and a highly inaccurate weapon at that. I prefer not to rely on spotters (because they are ultimately undependable in PUGs) and utilize strong fire control conditioning which has put me over 40% accuracy with my LRMs. But when you consider the weight, heat, abysmally slow travel time, minimum range limitations, and the need to maintain lock for the duration of the flight coupled with the uncontrollable blanket damage, soft and hard counters and the ability to nullify the weapon with terrain, there is little wonder LRMs are not commonly used in the higher levels of play. People complain about 50-60 tubes, but I would guess that most LRM boats have accuracy well below 40% and even with a mass cluster from and IS mech you still won't get hit by all 50-60 missiles. Many of them are gonna hit the ground or be taken out by AMS or terrain on the flight. LRMs were already well balanced and most people that get hammered by them really only have themselves to blame for it.

What Radar Dep. brings to the table is that it makes LRMs direct fire weapons if your team doesn't have a dedicated spotter for the cost of a module slot. Think about how slow missiles travel, the reload times, minimum range, and heat and tell me that is in anyway balanced. And there is no counter module, UAV doesn't count because it has a limited duration on a single use that takes a module slot and can be shot down prematurely. And from my experience in using it I find it so much better than AMS and even ECM. I get the missile warning, I duck behind a rock or back down a slope to break LOS, step a couple paces to the side and I don't get hit. LRM boat ridge humping, well no problem approaching because as soon as he breaks LOS he loses lock, so I don't get hit even if I can still see the peak of his mech over the top of the ridge. It simply makes LRM avoidance absolute easy mode, so much so that you would be foolish not to use it. If you have a fast mech you can be caught out in the open and still manage to break LOS before the missiles arrive and as long as you are moving perpendicular to the missile flight they won't hit you. It is way to good for the cost.

Edited by Errinovar, 02 July 2014 - 04:32 AM.

[ShinVector]

Errinovar, on 02 July 2014 - 04:31 AM, said:

I prefer not to rely on spotters (because they are ultimately undependable in PUGs) and utilize strong fire control conditioning which has put me over 40% accuracy with my LRMs.

And I think 'fail' when someone who uses LRM boats says this.
LRMs most powerful when combined with a dedicated spotter.
By the way.. The enhanced NARC a lot and the spotter does not need to die a much to spot.

[The Great Unwashed]

Indeed, a lone light spotter with a long range weapon (ERLL/ERPPC) in the back of an enemy team can be a major threat and irritant, especially on open maps as Alpine or Caustic.

[Bigbacon]

can someone explain why they thought this module was needed in the first place again? after reading all the comments both for/against it and from the LRM folks (which to me LRMs are a needed battlefield weapon for a lot of reasons) I am not totally sure why it was needed in the first place?

Just to break lock so LRMs couldn't be spammed from across the map and to make teammates actually target stuff for once?

[Hammerhai]

Rock is fine nerf scissors regards paper.

Problem is if there is enough noise it will be nerfed whether or not this is "fair". Have died to Clan LRM inside 6 seconds in a Nova, so ....

And the one thing I remember about Closed Beta is the streams of LRMS painting the sky, and I do not want a retread of that, TYVM.

But here is a tip: Keep on moaning and PGI will listen.