394 replies to this topic

[P4riah1]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

No, I understood you the first time. And my question is, why? Because more solos are new players and are thus "bads" that don't min/max?

Or is it because only true BT fans run sub-optimal builds, and don't do it in large groups? (Hint, yeah they do).

I understood what you're saying...I'm just saying that you have no evidence to support it and I think you're wrong.

So all the 2-4 mans that don't run Meta now, when thrust into the big bad group queue are suddenly going to have a religious experience and convert to the almighty poptart?

I don't think we're gonna agree on this until we actually let the damned this replicate on the servers, give it a few weeks and see what it's actually like. If I'm wrong THEN, I'll capitulate.

Those 2-4 mans who don't meta (like myself) either start using it because it's the only way to keep up (I've seen it many times) or they just get sick of it and go do something else.

Yes, we'll see how it is on the server. I hope to god I'm wrong, but I'll give them my feedback on what I see as potential problems now, in the hopes that it can help. Hopefully in a few weeks I will have been proven well and truly wrong.

Toker Hv52, on 23 June 2014 - 12:44 PM, said:

I've read 4 pages of comments so far.

Do some of you really believe that every time you click "Launch" your going to drop against people you want to drop against???

This is war... take your losses, lick you wounds, man up.
Launch again... it's not like you will ALWAY drop against a meta 12-man group. Sheesh.

These changes are great. Can't wait for the test to see how it all hashes out.

Of coruse we don't believe that, that would be silly. **** happens, that's life. But this is not 'war', this is a video game. That you play to have fun. When ENOUGH matches are not fun, and a new patch threatens to make that problem worse, we have an issue.

[Rebas Kradd]

Not every large group is even good.

Yeah, everyone's paranoid about Lords and SJG, but I wonder ho many 12-mans you played against and never even knew, because they just weren't all that good.

My unit, for example, actively avoids brainless meta builds, and plays against other units that do the same.

I just have to think that the effect of this will be far more manageable than you guys are concerned.

[AlmightyAeng]

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 23 June 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ive been using nothing but Balistics and lazers and I just recently started using the Computers but I havnt noticed much differance in accuracy or porformance at all. The computer details have no indications of % of how accurate the values increase using versions I-VII. What does it do? The explination for the computers should be a bit more detailed on value base for the general player. I'm still confused as to their overall role even though it states (improves balistics and energy weps) What does it improve? Damage or accuracy? I would really like to know seeing as how they take up an intire Torso space if you use the VII. Thats alot of ammo or heat sink space to take up for something I know nothing about.

The computers don't do ANYTHING yet. Read further down in the Command Post where they talk about their effects going live with the next patch.

Quote

Clan Targeting Computers and Command Console
We are happy to see these systems enter the game especially the long awaited IS command console. We can post some numbers on how they behave this week, though I am sure player feedback will continue drive adjustments and tuning.

Or go HERE to read about what they'll do.

[Sprouticus]

After thinking about it a bit, having a check box for group queue would be awesome.....but only for solo players.

I desperately want to AVOID the solo queue when I solo drop. Put me in with 11 others against a 12 man. Ill do my best to hold up my end of the stick!

[Helmer]

To say the small group I normally play with resembles the Three Stooges listening to Yakity Saks might be a tad bit generous (or insulting to the Stooges). To wit... we're bad.


I will also voice concerns about being pulled into a group queue with 12 man groups. Would it be possible to choose to participate in the solo only or group queues? Perhaps incentivize those who do drop into the larger group queue with a small percentage bump in CBill earnings? I understand the chances of running into a 12 man consistently will mostly likely be low , so this is not a major concern ,however, I do sympathize with those who do not wish this to happen.


Thank you for the explaination on why the Jump Jet Heat penalties are not included with this next patch. The reasoning is sound, and I'm sure many in the community appreciate knowing some of the why's behind some of the decisions being made



Looking forward to the next patch.


Cheers.

[Cimarb]

Felio, on 23 June 2014 - 12:45 PM, said:

What you call jump brawling, I call piloting a light or fast medium.

The SDR-5V in particular is going to get hosed. Jumping is all it has.

If JJ become just for transportation, not for combat, we'll lose yet another element to the "thinking man's shooter", and JJ-heavy builds (like my 7 JJ Griffin) will disappear. It may not be 1 JJ, but people will settle on whatever the new minimum is.

If you do wind up having a problem with jump damage, which I don't think you will, you can always take the fall damage module and ignore 80% of that damage in your light. Any more excuses?

Powder Puff Pew Pew, on 23 June 2014 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ive been using nothing but Balistics and lazers and I just recently started using the Computers but I havnt noticed much differance in accuracy or porformance at all. The computer details have no indications of % of how accurate the values increase using versions I-VII. What does it do? The explination for the computers should be a bit more detailed on value base for the general player. I'm still confused as to their overall role even though it states (improves balistics and energy weps) What does it improve? Damage or accuracy? I would really like to know seeing as how they take up an intire Torso space if you use the VII. Thats alot of ammo or heat sink space to take up for something I know nothing about.

Targeting Computers and Command Consoles are not implemented yet. They are in game, but do nothing until the next patch. It said that right in the previous patch notes, btw.

[P4riah1]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 23 June 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

That is how you learn from your mistakes and improve, however.

That's a competitive player's mindset. I do not play the game for that reason. I do not take the game seriously like the comp players do, so my goal is not to improve my skill, even if it means playing unfun games against much more skilled players. Christ on a pogo-stick, this isn't my cocking day job.

EDIT: Apparently that word that you put 'saltine' in front of is censored. lolz.

Edited by P4riah1, 23 June 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[AlmightyAeng]

Rebas Kradd, on 23 June 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Not every large group is even good.

Yeah, everyone's paranoid about Lords and SJG, but I wonder ho many 12-mans you played against and never even knew, because they just weren't all that good.

My unit, for example, actively avoids brainless meta builds, and plays against other units that do the same.

I just have to think that the effect of this will be far more manageable than you guys are concerned.

I was in a game with Kaffeangst a few days ago. He pulled 219 damage.

[Roland]

I am cautiously optimistic, for the first time in a very long while.

Some part of me suspects this is just gonna enrage me again, but if it does work, I will offer my sincere thanks.

I think there are still some flaws in the proposed implementation... namely, that the idea of solo players to simply join an unrestricted group queue was apparently discounted, despite many players saying they would actually PREFER to do that.

However, that point is extremely minor compared to the ability to play with larger groups again... While there's still a "gap" at 11 players, bridging that gap will be much easier than bridging the gap between 5-12 players.

So, if this ends up happening, again I offer my sincere thanks. I'm not sure most of my guys are going to bother coming back to the game, but the change is still appreciated.

[MuonNeutrino]

ShadowWolf Kell, on 23 June 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

That is how you learn from your mistakes and improve, however.

This response betrays *exactly* what is wrong with this entire situation. This is a perfectly reasonable thing to say, coming from a *competitive* mindset. It is literally meaningless coming from a casual one. Some people *simply have other fish to fry!* Not all of us have the be-all end-all objective in this game of becoming the absolute best players possible. Some of us just want to screw around and have fun. In most games this isn't a problem, because these two groups of players don't meet. In MWO, on the other hand, competitive and casual players are forced to play together, and the problem will be made even worse with this update. All we are asking is to give the community the tools to self-segregate, so that both sides no longer have to deal with those whose idea of fun is diametrically opposite from theirs.

[SinisterSocks]

Well I give my .02 worth. I am not a competitive gamer as it turns out. I have tried it for a few months and I just cant take the "Im gods gift to MWO" attitude I experience a lot of the time. I still play with guys from work and a few family members.

That being said there are more than 4 of us, but there is no way in hell i would get all 5 or 6 of us in a group and then be pitted against a 12 man or even a smaller competitive group. its been my experience there is no one playing 12 mans the way it is now unless your part of a comp team. There may be a few guys that like to group up but for the most part its all 4 man groups. So either we continue the 4 man's and have to swap out to let others play or those that don't get to play go off and play another game and will eventually leave MWO.

Maybe have 3 groups. a real 12 man group like you do now for the guys that want to practice. Then maybe split the other groups between single/ 2 man's and then anything larger into its own que

the other issue I have with this: I happen to be a fairly decent jump sniper. Sure this doesn't make it so I have to stop but it sure seems everyone that likes this NERF is always complaining about them and therefore want it changed. It seems we have to have everything so balanced that we might as well just have 1 mech that is good at one map and be satisfied. I don't want the ability to pick a mech after the map has been selected. It just takes out the game of chance of picking a viable mech.


Just my observations.

[Felio]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Did you miss the part where it's scalar? Ie...weight-based? Mediums, and ESPECIALLY lights, are going to be barely effected.

There's a reason why I wrote "heavy and assault" in the post you quoted me on.

Better yet, read the Command Post.

Your little metal arthropod is gonna be fine.

Oh, I read it. I don't have to check to know he said that about fall damage, not JJ performance or heat.

[AlmightyAeng]

MuonNeutrino, on 23 June 2014 - 12:57 PM, said:

Some of us just want to screw around and have fun.

And you can do that. That's EASY. From the REST of you argument, though, it sounds more like you wanna screw around and WIN. How's that not competitive again?

By all means, screw around, have fun! Don't be surprised if screwing around means you also lose.

Granted, not taking meta isn't always "screwing around." Taking a MG, LBX Jagermech is HILARIOUS...and if you play it right in a group it can even be successful. It's just got a knife's-edge margin for imploding and is only situationally an asset.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 23 June 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[Cimarb]

WarHippy, on 23 June 2014 - 12:49 PM, said:

Russ's attitude really pisses me off with things like this. The fact that he and the devs have pushed players like you away is really depressing, and the way they communicate and interact with the community in such an unprofessional manner is a cancer that needs to be removed. <_< Why he had to act in that manner when all he had to do was put forth a little effort in not alienating groups so much, and players like yourself wouldn't have been so frustrated.

Read the days and weeks of garbage being flung at Russ before you pass judgement, he made a joke - jab at Road that it was - but it was after a long barrage of jabs and direct attacks against him. Don't just look at a snipped conversation and make judgement next time.

Helmer, on 23 June 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

To say the small group I normally play with resembles the Three Stooges listening to Yakity Saks might be a tad bit generous (or insulting to the Stooges). To wit... we're bad.

I will also voice concerns about being pulled into a group queue with 12 man groups. Would it be possible to choose to participate in the solo only or group queues? Perhaps incentivize those who do drop into the larger group queue with a small percentage bump in CBill earnings? I understand the chances of running into a 12 man consistently will mostly likely be low , so this is not a major concern ,however, I do sympathize with those who do not wish this to happen.

I think solo and 2-4 player groups should be able to choose which queue to be in, while 5+ should be in group-only queue. That would be the best compromise for all.

[TercieI]

Sprouticus, on 23 June 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

After thinking about it a bit, having a check box for group queue would be awesome.....but only for solo players.

I desperately want to AVOID the solo queue when I solo drop. Put me in with 11 others against a 12 man. Ill do my best to hold up my end of the stick!

+1

(unless I'm leveling a crap mech, admittedly)

[Rebas Kradd]

Cimarb, on 23 June 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Read the days and weeks of garbage being flung at Russ before you pass judgement, he made a joke - jab at Road that it was - but it was after a long barrage of jabs and direct attacks against him. Don't just look at a snipped conversation and make judgement next time.

Indeed. To read about Russ' "twitter antics" you would think he swore and threatened suit. The crap flung AT him is five times as prevalent and insulting, and if those responsible refuse to be held accountable for it, then all we've got is the ol' junior-high mentality reading its head again.

[P4riah1]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

And you can do that. That's EASY. From the REST of you argument, though, it sounds more like you wanna screw around and WIN. How's that not competitive again?

By all means, screw around, have fun! Don't be surprised if screwing around means you also lose.

Granted, not taking meta isn't always "screwing around." Taking a MG, LBX Jagermech is HILARIOUS...and if you play it right in a group it can even be successful. It's just got a knife's-edge margin for imploding and is only situationally an asset.

For me it's less screwing around in the 'do silly random non-game ****', screwing around means not having to be super serious always playing at 110% effort. Given the people I find myself matched with on a regular basis, playing my non-meta mechs (100% of my mechs, as it turns out), and NOT being super serial all the time ends with short curbstomp matches at the hands of the comp teams.

That's 'screwing around' to me. Not being 110% win at all costs meta play.

[ShadowWolf Kell]

Terciel1976, on 23 June 2014 - 01:01 PM, said:

+1

(unless I'm leveling a crap mech, admittedly)

Locusts aren't crap. They're just... S.P.E.C.I.A.L.

[MuonNeutrino]

Ghost Badger, on 23 June 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

And you can do that. That's EASY. From the REST of you argument, though, it sounds more like you wanna screw around and WIN. How's that not competitive again?

By all means, screw around, have fun! Don't be surprised if screwing around means you also lose.

Again, you miss the point. I don't give a single flying **** about winning. I care about playing in games that are fun. If I'm screwing around, I am perfectly happy to lose *if the game was enjoyable!* The problem is, playing against teams full of meta in the hands of competitive players is just about the exact opposite of enjoyable. If you run up to my rainbow-build CTF-2X in a jagermech with an ac10 and some SRMs and explode me, I will stand back and laugh. If you sit back in a pile of victors mindlessly pogosticking up and down spewing PPCs in all directions, I will close the game and go find something less painful to do, like cleaning the house.

Edited by MuonNeutrino, 23 June 2014 - 01:04 PM.

[TKSax]

Cimarb, on 23 June 2014 - 12:59 PM, said:

Read the days and weeks of garbage being flung at Russ before you pass judgement, he made a joke - jab at Road that it was - but it was after a long barrage of jabs and direct attacks against him. Don't just look at a snipped conversation and make judgement next time.

I have read the whole conversation and Russ seems to forget that he is the CEO of a company and needs to act like it, and in reality Roadbeer never flung garbage but has directed both criticism and praise to Russ in the past. As I said before his actions cost him a purchase of a Maskari Package from me, sure that's not a lot but I will probably never ever spend any money with this company due to the clownshoes leadership they have.