394 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Just an FYI just because it's a group it don't make them good. You would be surprised to see a lot of the sync droppers get stomped... Also I have seen some really bad 12 mans.

[Hunter Watzas]

I am so happy. I believe in PGI again.

[Wintersdark]

Roland, on 23 June 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

I am cautiously optimistic, for the first time in a very long while.

Some part of me suspects this is just gonna enrage me again, but if it does work, I will offer my sincere thanks.

I think there are still some flaws in the proposed implementation... namely, that the idea of solo players to simply join an unrestricted group queue was apparently discounted, despite many players saying they would actually PREFER to do that.

However, that point is extremely minor compared to the ability to play with larger groups again... While there's still a "gap" at 11 players, bridging that gap will be much easier than bridging the gap between 5-12 players.

So, if this ends up happening, again I offer my sincere thanks. I'm not sure most of my guys are going to bother coming back to the game, but the change is still appreciated.

Gotta say, as a almost strictly solo player (through necessity rather than choice) not only would I happily join the group queue, I'd actually prefer to play exclusively in it.

I'm endlessly annoyed by how solo queue matches are often lost at the very beginning because each individual player skitters off to do his own Special Rambo Task. Even if a match is made up of smaller groups, those groups should at least act a little more cohesively.

And as a solo player, that gives me lots of groups in a match to choose from, so I can check at match start for a group I'm best able to hang with (mech speed/capabilities) and just link up with them.

[Vassago Rain]

I will remain cautiously optimistic, but if the big group feature is delivered as explained in Russ' OP, a lot of the people I used to play with will likely give the game a second chance.

[HUBA]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 23 June 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

...
Many players in our game currently only use one JJ and they are receiving too much thrust and capability for having just the one. Even though this new JJ heat code was working as intended; If released without first dealing with the JJ thrust issue, it was just going to exacerbate that existing problem. Any larger 'mechs properly running perhaps 4 JJ’s would be generating this new additional heat while the one JJ 'mechs would be generating very little extra heat...

that's why IMO it would be good to make it less hot for more JJ. If you want the mobility for low cost then you can fit 1 JJ but have to pay the price by extra heat. If you spend more tonnage into JJ then you gain a bit better performance. Just a random number; 1JJ = 2.0 heat, 2JJ = 1.5 Heat (yes less then one) 3JJ = 1.33 heat and so on (1+1/JJ Heat). Then the most people would take 2JJ maybe 3 because there are better then.

[Scarcer]

Great communication!

[Wintersdark]

WarHippy, on 23 June 2014 - 12:26 PM, said:

They probably see it as being kind to the solo players, but as a solo player I find this to be kind of insulting. I want to be able to drop in the group queue as a fill in, but they seem to be convinced I wouldn't have more fun there so they try to "protect" me from the supposedly evil group players.

Yes, yes, yes.

Mind you, I'm not insulted - I understand how there have been an exceptionally vocal set of solo players who scream bloody murder about how the Evil Premades Touched Them In a Bad Place.

I get that.

But I REALLY want to be able to fill space in the group queue. A lot. I'd far rather be slotted in there!

*cries*

Take me with you! Don't leave me here in the solo queue!

[Felbombling]

I don't know why, but when I see group players complaining and having concerns over being forced to play against other organized groups, I just get this picture in my head...

[Joseph Mallan]

Up to 10 man teams

It will be sweet to finally be able to drop as the Law again!

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

My comments and feedback in BOLD ... I haven't read ny previous feedback yet, so this might be redundant.

When we are at lower population levels, the MM has release valves that will allow the 4x3 functionality to flex a little and allow a match of a slightly different configuration. Even in these situations, the MM ensures that both sides contain the same make up of weight classes.
As a guy who plays (I suspect) during one of those lower population level times, this helps alleviate one of my concerns, that the rules would be too restrictive, and would dramatically increase wait times.

In fact, everything about the MM is a tuneable value that can be changed in real-time without downtime of the servers. This all allows us to continue to work on additional functionality such as exact tonnage matching and future needs of Faction matching for Community Warfare.
This is awesome. It's nice to see that you're programming for future growth.

Groups in sizes 2-10 and 12.
FINALLY.

- 2-4 will either be placed into the “Solo Public Queue” or the “Group Queue”.
- groups of 5-10 or 12 will ALWAYS be placed into the “Group Queue”.
- Players in the solo queue are ensured that there will be only one 2-4 sized premade per side.
- 12-person group, the MM will first look to see if there is another 12-person group to match up against, if not it will piece together 12 from the rest of the group queue
I still assert that with "one group per side", and more-or-less evenly matched groups, and more-or-less evenly matched solo players filling the rest of each side, splitting solo and group queues is unnecessary. My concern is that smaller groups (2-4) will not wnat to play in the group queue, and larger groups (8-10) will not be able to fill out their team. I hope this is not the case.
Also, depending on how the group matching and team building works, this could create some seriously unbalanced matches that were put together just because the group numbers added up to 12 and 12. (Edit: I mis-read the OP, and thought that 2-4 man groups would have a choice regarding solo or group queue ... this actually has the potential to be an elegant compromise solution.)

You may have noted that “these do NOT go to eleven”. In short, groups of 11 are an odd problem, only solved by either throwing unsuspecting random solo players into the likely much fiercer group queue games as the only player NOT in a group, or adding the complexity of giving solo players the option box to tell us they don’t mind getting thrown into the group Queue. Either way feels undesirable at the moment and we’re going move ahead with the one invalid group size.
I suspect that if you added the option for solo players to join the group queue, you'd be surprised how many of us would do so. When playing solo, I would much rather try to help out an organized group than try to herd cats.

“'Mech Select” button from the private match window has made its way into the group window.
SWEET!

Scalar falling damage
Add in the thrust scaling for all Jump Jet classes (like the Highlander), and this will significantly change the game ... hopefully for the better.


Overall, this is sofa king awesome! I'm really looking forward to trying these new changes out.

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 23 June 2014 - 05:48 PM.

[Merciless Hunter]

This concerns me a lot. Considering the amount of units and the amount of 2-4 mans, wouldn't this make the matchmaker queues longer than they will already be with the 3/3/3/3? At least we can drop in up to 10. I am still worried about this though.

[Vassago Rain]

P4riah1, on 23 June 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

Problem is, the pro premades only run 4-mans now because the 12 man queue only matches against 12 mans, and those are harder to set up, and 4 is the other max group size. What will happen is the pro groups will run however many of them are on at once, probably 6-8 man groups. So they will grow in avg size. And here will be me and my brother in our little two man pair, FORCED to match up against these people.

I had hoped that 3/3/3/3, 1 group per game in the solo queue, and more group queue options would have helped give the various communities the ability to better play the way they all want to with like minded people. I could play less against the competitive players, and they could have more options for playing against each other outside of the solo queue. I was even planning on dumping more money on MC as a reward to PGI once 3/3/3/3 came out and the game got 10x more fun like the 3/3/3/3 public test. Now, I'm not sure if the game will retain what fun it has if I have no choice but to play 100% solo or be forced even closer to the competitive players.

You are already forced to play against and with the 'pros' if your powerlevel is high enough.

It's not uncommon for me and my kong A-team remnants to get matched with a steel jag 4 man and some random LORDS, and the enemy to be all solid solos and other LORDS.

Absolutely nothing will change for actual pubbies.

[Napoleon_Blownapart]

i thought those group drop vs.solo drop numbers were debunked months ago.
80% of my friends list went perma grey after they went 12v12 and limited groups to 4 mans,maybe, and i hope, this gets players to return.
pugs get stomped not because theyre pugs but because there isnt voice comms in game if you could talk to your team how solo would you be?

1 of you is living up to youre name

Edited by Gorantir, 23 June 2014 - 03:09 PM.

[dangerzone]

[Splitpin]

Groups of 4+ is the best news in forever.
The only tweak I'd make to approach purrrfection would be, to give solo and 2 man groups a solo or group queue option.
Why not give the solo player a choice ?
Equally I see the desire to be able to take a newb friend / young son or daughter into an environment thats slightly less organised towards their speedy destruction is a legitimate request.
So 1 or 2, get a choice, 3 could go either way, 4 and more the group queue. To my mind 4 in the solo queue is tending towards a desire to pug stomp and against the intent of the solo queue.

[ColourfulConfetti]

You know it's great and all you're taking a stand against the poptart meta, but what exactly does the IS have now? I mean, even poptarting wasn't exactly best done by the IS. The timber wolf could load the same loadout as Dragon Slayer, only they have no worries about losing a side torso, are less effected by Gauss rifle explosions due to built in case, oh and their ppcs do 2.5 splash damage to two adjacent components. Assuming I encounter a timber wolf with dual ER PPC and gauss. He doesn't even have to be dead on with his aim. He could frequently be striking me all over the place, the whole time, that splash damage adds up. He also outranges me by a strong margin and doesn't have to worry at all about a 90m min range. He's basically better in every regard, and by the way, he's far more mobile than a Dragon Slayer too. Timber Wolf has a clear upper hand in the Jump snipe duel and even weighs 5 tons less than DS.

But I digress, what exactly does the IS have left now that their second fiddle poptarting is going to be even further ripped apart? Engines you say? You know, that's hardly any consolation prize, since when was engine size all that crucial to a lumbering atlas or banshee? Aside from that, you'd have to have a very high engine size on a heavy to compete with the timber wolf. 89 kph and the weaponry of an assualt level mech. The only real strength of the IS now is sniper light mechs. Brawling light mechs on the other hand, well, not exactly the best idea right now with how many high dps clan builds there are.

Also, before you clan fanboys come in rushing to your precious clan mechs defense and spout lrn2play bull malarkey. I still do fine in game, and yes I know how to play. Doesn't change the fact that clans mechas are inherently better than IS. Not saying people can't do good in Is mechs, just saying some of the clan mechs have the odds stacked in their favor.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 23 June 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[R5D4]

StaggerCheck, on 23 June 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

I don't know why, but when I see group players complaining and having concerns over being forced to play against other organized groups, I just get this picture in my head...

Sorry but when I see this I can't help but think you have never done a real 12 man drop. 12 man random (a.k.a grabbing whoever else happens to be on TS that day) vs 12 man professional (a.k.a. they train 5 nights a week with the same group of people over and over) are completely different experiences. One is put together for fun the other is put together TO WIN - and trust me they do.

This is why while I'm grateful for PGI putting together a separate group only queue I'm concerned that all this will lead to is 12 man professional groups beating the living p&#$ out of 5-10 man groups who are just trying to have fun with ALL of their friends online (not just 3 of them at a time).

I'm hoping that the matchmaker system is sufficiently refactored enough to prevent this from happening because if not all it will do is force 5-10 groups to split up back into the smaller queue with a 4 man again (assuming they can make that choice) or drive them off completely. Time will tell...

Edited by R5D4, 23 June 2014 - 04:36 PM.

[KevinRuddPM]

I play a fair bit, and stalk the forums but don't post much. I feel the need to say THANK GOD! I've personally been saying that I'd love to just have a 12v12 of all SOLO players (or very small groups) and had no idea that this was being implemented. This is great news. I'm with a few of the members in saying I DO NOT want to play against, nor put up with the sh*t attitudes from players in larger groups or 12 man sync drop ROFLstompers thinking they are great just because they can stomp some pugs. I'm also looking forward to some tonnage balance rather than just seeing TBR TBR TBR DWF TBR DWF AS7 DWF ... you get the idea.

Looking forward to this very much!

[MonkeyCheese]

Love it, especially the part about solo people only ever running into 2-4 man groups but larger will still exist.

[FireDog]

Concerning the falling damage and the PGI recommendation of adding more jump jets... Well, would you consider allowing the Jester to carry up to 4 JJs like the rest of the jumping Catapults? It is well enough nerfed by heat for the all energy weapon load out but I would like to add another JJ to the 2 it is allowed to carry. Dropping a heat sink to get another JJ is a major hit unto itself. Really some of the older mechs need a few tweaks to remain viable mechs in this game. The ghost heat penalties and negative design quirks of pitch and yaw, (+ torso twist range) it got beyond the Missile Cats need to be reevaluated since the JJ and Jumping turn rate nerfs came into effect. Thanks…

Edited by FireDog, 23 June 2014 - 06:52 PM.