For a while, I've been mulling over ideas related to how Heat works in MWO and how the system can be improved. And another thing I've been wondering about is, how can more Heat Effects be incorporated in what we already have in MWO?
Working through the ideas more, the main issue is the slow dissipation we have, and the lack of excess heat effects in MWO, relative to our doubled armor values and our increased rate of fire (that also increases how fast we build heat).
Therefore one thing that can be done is to have Heat Dissipation get an increase to at least better match how heat works in the original.
Following that, we also need to find the best way to incorporate Heat Effects.
Here are some ideas below:
If we retain current weapon stats, I believe that exploring a renewed scale with doubled dissipation values (0.2 for SHS and 0.4 for DHS) to better match other various increased values, could be an improvement for MWO.
So with such a change, the current increased capacity and heat scale penalties should be adjusted and incorporate heat effects to better emulate heat effects in MWO.
The main thing to try is reduce the gifted 30 capacity to be reduced to 14 and then simply apply effects as seen in the original.
And with such changes, should totally eliminate the need for Heat Generation quirks due to the increased dissipation and follows closely to the original Heat system with Heat Effects applied appropriately.
Ideas of a reduced fixed cap and reduced variable capacity in line with quirks:
Spoiler
The reason why 30 fits pretty good for the first avoidable shutdown is that it allows for original Heat Effects to be incorporated above that value up to a max value of 66, which would be an Automatic Shutdown, until the mech got below 100% Heat. Also the value of 30 is around were the average Heat Scale Penalty seems to kick in, so these penalties could then see adjustments to how weapons are placed together in different buckets and the amount of penalty applied so that fewer weapon combos are also unable to build around the intent of the penalties in the first place.
One of the concerns is to allow for hotter weapons like PPCs and ERPPCs to remain viable when fired in groups of two or three (factoring in quirks for the specific mechs that utilized such weapons iconically and allow any mech to use them too) with a lowered Heat Cap but also to help control Alphas so that there can be more parity between different weapon systems and combos so that MWO remains fun and competitive.
Which is why reducing capacity and increasing dissipation in light of heat generation quirks should certainly allay those concerns.
Here is a table below that utilizes the original effects including effects up to 50 heat that could translate to a static max cap of 66 Heat for MWO's doubled values.
The idea with this scale is that the Heat Bar in actual matches will display either all heat changes or possibly only display dangerous excess heat and potentially include two new colors to demonstrate Excess Heat being retained if displaying all heat states.
And so the intended effect is to have Heat Sinks provide their capacity more as Dissipation over time instead of allowing multiple weapons to be fired together at once as is allowed with MWO's current capacity.
The reason that increasing dissipation to a max of double the original dissipation is so that more mechs can have the capability to fire their stock loadouts using the values introduced in MWO (it would be a great aid to SHS mechs like the AWS-8Q for example). And knowing that DPS and HPS output on average weapons is typically beyond 2.5x, still allows Heat Generation Quirks to be placed on mechs on a case by case basis to account for the now smaller difference in heat generated and heat dissipated as necessary for balancing / parity.
An alternative idea is to maintain a variable scale, but have the values of Capacity and Dissipation be at a value where Dissipation is represented as 50% of Capacity.
So instead of having SHS at 1.0 Capacity and 0.1 Dissipation, and DHS at 2.0 Capacity and 0.2 Dissipation; have SHS Capacity at 0.4 and Dissipation at 0.2, while DHS has Capacity at 0.8 and Dissipation at 0.4
So if we have 28 SHS, they would provide an additional capacity of 11.20 that would adjust the Heat Scale accordingly (instead of inflating the scale with an additional ~28+ Capacity with no Heat Effects) in relation to current weapon values, where it may safely alpha three PPCs to below 25.2.
So with the AWS-8Q with current quirks would have a Heat Spike of 22.5, safely below by 2.7 units of heat to the first overrideable shutdown, but with 5.6 Dissipation a second would need to still watch subseqent grouped shots since its HPS would be ~8.04 with three PPCs and ~5.36 with two, allowing the mech to benefit from a 3 / 2 / 3 pattern better than with current SHS dissipation and capacity.
Keeping earlier thoughts in spoiler.
Spoiler
So the values to test first for dissipation are 0.2 for SHS and 0.4 for DHS.
For MWO's doubled values and flow of combat I've considered starting at a static max threshold of 60 to coincide with increasing dissipation rates.
Here's a table for some values I've been looking at:
So these rates could work against a heat effects table that could have the first override-able shutdown at 44 units of heat.
In the spoiler is the idea of adjusting the heat system to closely mimic the original.
Spoiler
SHS can remain at 1.0 Capacity with DHS at 2.0, if we can setup floating Heat Effects based on the original table and the amount of capacity that can vary from build to build.
Here is a table showing how this could look:
The reasons I considered going with these numbers first is that they match up to the original Excess Heat Effects from BattleTech and to the doubling of other values in MWO.
For example, using 10 SHS we would have this:
Keeping the table simple, since there several ways to implement those listed effects.
A mech with 10 SHS could produce an instant heat spike up to 23 without concern and would need to override if pushing above 24. And the mech would need about ~11.5 seconds to dissipate that heat to then generate another heat spike of 23 units.
A mech with 10 DHS could produce an instant heat spike of 33, and would need to override shutdown to push above 34. It would need ~8.25 seconds to dissipate 33 units of heat for a follow up spike of heat.
A mech with 20 DHS could produce an instant heat spike of 53, and would need to hit override at 54 to push higher on the scale. And the mech would need about ~6.75 seconds to be able to generate a second heat spike up to 53 units of heat.
With the heat system setup like this, it closely mimics the original heat system and may possibly allow for other existing systems in MWO to remain in place with tweaks to base values.
For example, if we were to stay with the current Mech Tree Efficiencies, the base values can be adjusted so that 2x Cool Run and 2x Heat Containment provide their bonus to get SHS to 0.2 Dissipation and 1.0 Capacity, while DHS would be 0.4 and 2.0 respectively.
Examples in the spoiler
Spoiler
Base value examples
Stock value of 30: 25 (20% goes up to 30)
SHS Dissipation: 0.17391 (15% goes up to 0.2)
SHS Capacity: 0.83333 (20% goes up to 1.0)
DHS Dissipation: 0.34783 (15% goes up to 0.4)
DHS Capacity: 1.73913 (20% goes up to 2.0)
Heat Scale Penalties may remain in place with tweaks to when they kick in, and how much of a penalty is applied; to better aid for builds that worked efficiently in the original, where Heat Scale can still be used to maybe represent inefficiencies in building a mech non-stock depending on how it can synergize with quirks and a modified heat system. They can certainly see some adjustments as to what weapons trigger in terms of the buckets / weapon grouping for the Penalties.
So quirks that affect Heat would likely need some tweaking, but these could be fine in most cases.
Weapons can also look to have their original base heat values, such as ER Large Lasers at 12 heat, Large Lasers at 8 heat and so on.
Just want to note, that pushing dissipation higher is another avenue to test out where SHS can give 0.25 a second and DHS at give 0.5 a second, to better match MWO's rate of fire as shown in the table above.
So trying these changes can certainly work, it's just a matter of testing out the values and seeing how the modifications interact with the other various systems, including current quirks, where Heat Generation quirks, might be obsolete with improved Dissipation.
Also, looking forward to what the devs have in store for their re-balancing efforts that are coming in the future.
Again, these are just ideas, so I'm open to feedback, and as I get time I'll be updating and detailing more..
Thanks for reading!
Edited by Nothing Whatsoever, 28 July 2018 - 11:54 PM.
"-1 movement point means" your engine performs as if it's rating were reduced by mech's tonnage, so if you're in an Awesome with 300 rated engine you will move as if you had 220 rated engine. So if you pop around the corner and fire something way too hot you won't be able to disengage fast enough and take A LOT of damage from enemy team. Transfers really good from TT to MWO IMO.
Heat cap is dynamic and depends on the amount of heat you generate and dissipate per certain time interval (10 sec in TT, 4 sec in MWO). So when you generate 40 heat per turn (4 sec in MWO) 20 double heatsinks should be enough to make you heat neutral, but if you do generate even 5 pts. more heat the penalty is pretty severe as you can see above. So basically heat cap is Number of heatsinks X Dissipation of one over time interval (2 over 10 sec in TT, should be the same (2) in MWO only over 4 sec), Heat Scale starts from that point.
Proper dissipation is 0.5 per double heatsink (2 heat over 4 sec) since rate of fire was increased 2.5 (10/2.5 = 4, that's where it comes) times and dissipation acts as primary cooldown for energy weapos.
Heat system's purpose is not to limit pinpoint alphas but to make energy weapons even with ballistics in weight and crit space by forcing players to equip enough heatsinks to cool all the stuff they've put in their mechs.
Very true, what I've been brainstorming has been evolving as I better understand where we're at with MWO's numbers.
I'd have no problem having the full penalties as in the original either.
If we would have some sort of global chain-fire maybe, to at least spread damage from grouped weapons, then I'd definitely like to see proper dissipation values as you suggest, my concern is being able to focus down mech sections with current weapon damage values too fast, as we already can deal a lot of damage.
So, with how we can group several weapons and hit the same section in MWO, we need something to keep that under control. And Heat Scale Penalties should not be the go to solution for that, which was why I've been looking to have an override-able shutdown be set to ~28 or 30 units in the mean time until we can find a better and permanent solution, than just another band-aid.
LocationSitting on a 12x multiplier and voting for Terra Therma
Posted 06 January 2015 - 05:26 PM
I've posted this before but here are my thoughts regarding the heat system...
A mech's maximum heat capacity at engine size / 10 plus 1 point for each heat-sink installed outside the engine.
Each heatsink would dissipate 0.25 points of heat per second, doubles would dissipate 0.5.
Engines would produce heat equal to throttle setting * engine size / 100 points per second. This would make smaller engines more heat efficicient and larger ones less so. A 250 engine with with the minimum 10 SHS would be heat neutral,
What I think these changes would accomplish...
Comparably lower heat caps coupled with heat from movement means that few mechs will be able to pull off big-alpha strikes without shutting down or otherwise remaining stationary.
Comparably faster heat dissipation further encourages chain-firing over alpha strikes, reducing the wider emphasis on PP/FLD.
Many stock builds will have substantially higher heat capacities than their "optimized" brethren (looking at you AWS-8Q ) putting them on a slightly more even footing for that early grind.
The choice to run DHS, becomes less clear-cut as having a higher max heat level will help some builds more than the increased dissipation of DHS will.
You can still run and gun but there is now a sound tactical reason to move at less than 100% throttle or use a smaller engine as doing so improves cooling efficiency.
Specific values are subject to tweaking and discussion of course but that should be enough to give you a general idea.
"-1 movement point means" your engine performs as if it's rating were reduced by mech's tonnage, so if you're in an Awesome with 300 rated engine you will move as if you had 220 rated engine. So if you pop around the corner and fire something way too hot you won't be able to disengage fast enough and take A LOT of damage from enemy team. Transfers really good from TT to MWO IMO.
I was double checking the speed values, 1 MP is 10.8 KPH so up to a -5 MP would be 54 KPH. Should be significant enough penalty if we retain that much excess heat.
Quote
Spoiler
Heat cap is dynamic and depends on the amount of heat you generate and dissipate per certain time interval (10 sec in TT, 4 sec in MWO). So when you generate 40 heat per turn (4 sec in MWO) 20 double heatsinks should be enough to make you heat neutral, but if you do generate even 5 pts. more heat the penalty is pretty severe as you can see above. So basically heat cap is Number of heatsinks X Dissipation of one over time interval (2 over 10 sec in TT, should be the same (2) in MWO only over 4 sec), Heat Scale starts from that point.
Proper dissipation is 0.5 per double heatsink (2 heat over 4 sec) since rate of fire was increased 2.5 (10/2.5 = 4, that's where it comes) times and dissipation acts as primary cooldown for energy weapos.
Heat system's purpose is not to limit pinpoint alphas but to make energy weapons even with ballistics in weight and crit space by forcing players to equip enough heatsinks to cool all the stuff they've put in their mechs.
It will be interesting to try this values out.
So having DHS at 0.5, should get us 0.25 for SHS.
So using a Stock AWS-8Q firing three PPCs with current quirks and Heat Scale Penalty generates 31.95 heat every four seconds and dissipates 28 heat over 4 seconds. Gaining ~3.95 excess Heat.
A Stock Warhawk Prime firing three ERPPCs currently gains 63.9 heat and dissipates 40 over 4 seconds so it currently would gain 23.9 on the scale, so it either needs quirks or a change for when Heat Scale kicks in.
So it would need to at least start with a 30% Heat Reduction for ERPPCs with quirks to get Heat to 44.73.
Here's two tables that I came up with:
Spoiler
This table would have the excess heat after dissipation
HlynkaCG, on 06 January 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:
I've posted this before but here are my thoughts regarding the heat system...
A mech's maximum heat capacity at engine size / 10 plus 1 point for each heat-sink installed outside the engine.
Each heatsink would dissipate 0.25 points of heat per second, doubles would dissipate 0.5.
Engines would produce heat equal to throttle setting * engine size / 100 points per second. This would make smaller engines more heat efficicient and larger ones less so. A 250 engine with with the minimum 10 SHS would be heat neutral,
Spoiler
What I think these changes would accomplish...
Comparably lower heat caps coupled with heat from movement means that few mechs will be able to pull off big-alpha strikes without shutting down or otherwise remaining stationary.
Comparably faster heat dissipation further encourages chain-firing over alpha strikes, reducing the wider emphasis on PP/FLD.
Many stock builds will have substantially higher heat capacities than their "optimized" brethren (looking at you AWS-8Q ) putting them on a slightly more even footing for that early grind.
The choice to run DHS, becomes less clear-cut as having a higher max heat level will help some builds more than the increased dissipation of DHS will.
You can still run and gun but there is now a sound tactical reason to move at less than 100% throttle or use a smaller engine as doing so improves cooling efficiency.
Specific values are subject to tweaking and discussion of course but that should be enough to give you a general idea.
I can see the value in the dissipation rates, my only concerns being able to deal our damage to a single component where originally each weapon was likely each able to hit a different section
With throttle setting are you thinking of a % value or something like a whole number? I was looking to see how this can be calculated.
Originally mechs have a Walking MP (generating one Heat a turn) and Running MP (generating two Heat a turn). WIth how many engine choices we have in MWO we can use (Engine Rating divided by Weight) to find walking MP. Then we multiply that value by 10.8 to get the KPH. So say take a Locust with a 160 engine it's walking KPH is 86.4 and Runs up to the speed we know in MWO.
Edit:
So what can be looked at to keep close to the original is charge a walking mech one Heat Sink so 0.25 dissipation loss a second triggering up to 66% Throttle, then running goes up 0.5 a second.
Edited by Praetor Knight, 06 January 2015 - 07:48 PM.
Praetor Knight, on 06 January 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:
I was double checking the speed values, 1 MP is 10.8 KPH so up to a -5 MP would be 54 KPH. Should be significant enough penalty if we retain that much excess heat.
It will be interesting to try this values out.
So having DHS at 0.5, should get us 0.25 for SHS.
So using a Stock AWS-8Q firing three PPCs with current quirks and Heat Scale Penalty generates 31.95 heat every four seconds and dissipates 28 heat over 4 seconds. Gaining ~3.95 excess Heat.
A Stock Warhawk Prime firing three ERPPCs currently gains 63.9 heat and dissipates 40 over 4 seconds so it currently would gain 23.9 on the scale, so it either needs quirks or a change for when Heat Scale kicks in.
So it would need to at least start with a 30% Heat Reduction for ERPPCs with quirks to get Heat to 44.73.
In MWO we pick engine based on how fast we want to go / how much spare tonnage we have, to apply penalty in a proper way we need to calculate the exact amount of MP we have. There's a formula to determine engine rating based on how many MP you want:
Tonnage x Desired Walking MP = Engine Rating
80 x N = 300
N = 3.75 MP, subtract 1 (Penalty) and calculate engine rating again:
Current Engine Rating - [Penalty x Tonnage] = Modified Engine Rating
Yest it may match 10 kph speed on some mechs but it's not all about movement speed, it's overall slow down, and acceleration/deceleration/torso twist ratings are more important in mech engagements.
Quirks should be removed, it's a band-aid solution (unless it's armor/internal structure quirks that help oversized mechs, PGI don't want to rescale them anyways), Awesome and any other energy boats will do great with 0.5 dissipation but will be top-down balanced. Plus water should boost the cooling depending on how deep you're standing in it.
Cool run skills should be removed as well.
Even speed tweak and all the other skills, if you want to add MASC and Supercharger in future.
LocationSitting on a 12x multiplier and voting for Terra Therma
Posted 07 January 2015 - 09:56 AM
Praetor Knight, on 06 January 2015 - 07:08 PM, said:
I can see the value in the dissipation rates, my only concerns being able to deal our damage to a single component where originally each weapon was likely each able to hit a different section
With throttle setting are you thinking of a % value or something like a whole number? I was looking to see how this can be calculated.
Originally mechs have a Walking MP (generating one Heat a turn) and Running MP (generating two Heat a turn). WIth how many engine choices we have in MWO we can use (Engine Rating divided by Weight) to find walking MP. Then we multiply that value by 10.8 to get the KPH. So say take a Locust with a 160 engine it's walking KPH is 86.4 and Runs up to the speed we know in MWO.
As I said in my reply, movement heat would be equal to "throttle setting * engine size / 100". A 280 engine would produce 2.8 heat per second at full throttle, (1.0 * 280 /100) 1.4 heat at half speed (0.5 * 280/100), and so on. A 250 engine with the minimal 10 internal SHS would produce 2.5 heat at full throttle while dissipating 2.5 making the engine heat neutral. a 300 engine with the minimal 10 heat-sinks would produce 3 heat while dissipating 2.5, resulting in a heat gain of 0.5 heat per second at full throttle. (filling the engine's two internal heatsink slots would bring your dissipation up to 3.0 making the engine heat neutral again)
As for the MP penalty I think that you are jumping ahead of yourself and possibly nuking the problem.
With movement heat implemented the simplest way is to simply have a throttle limiter that prevents you from generating more heat than you can dissipate so long as your heat level is above X, thus preventing players from cooking themselves through movement. For instance that 300 engine with minimal heat sinks would be limited to 75% (2.5 heat produced and 2.5 heat dissipated) Once your heat falls below that critical level, the throttle limit is removed. For giggles even we could have the "Override" function disable the throttle limiter to allow a momentary "sprint".
Regarding the pin point damage issue:
You need to remember that the under my system very few mechs would be able to fire a big alpha without shutting down. That in itself is a major balancing factor as it makes the high alpha builds much more vulnerable to DPS builds and things like airstrikes.
The Awesome is actually an outlier in this regard, but consider the price it pays for that 30 point "spamable" alpha. 21 tons of guns plus 18 tons of heat-sinks, is a lot of tonnage on a 80 ton mech. A mech that dedicates nearly half it's weight to it's primary weapon system SHOULD be able to dish out some serious hurt.
Leaving the originally modified idea in a spoiler here, and will be putting an updated idea for the heat system in the OP.
Spoiler
From my observations, one of the bigger issues we've had is how heat sinks add to capacity, when they should have only provided for dissipation.
And then we get further boosts from Heat Containment, Cool Run and 2x Basic due to getting a mech to Elite. It would be awesome to see the Mech Tree improved, but if we need to stay with the existing Mech Tree, we should adjust a few values so that those boosts are not easily enabling weapons to fire together, ignoring Heat Scale penalties (Ghost Heat) for high heat spikes and high damage values beyond what 2x Armor is able to withstand, in the general fire and hide pattern that our current heat constraints allow.
Nonetheless, Heat Sinks can still provide a Capacity boost, but that value should be lowered to 0.1 for both SHS and DHS. That way we need to add 10 Heat Sinks at a time to add 1 unit of Heat Capacity, so the IS trade off is Weight versus Crit Slots and can reduce high heat Alphas that are able to deal too much damage at their current values.
I would also consider a minor boost to the base 30 heat capacity so that the average heat spike an mech can tolerate is at least 28 units with 10 Heatsinks (Single or Double, since each only raise capacity at a rate of 0.1 each).
So with Dissipation values for SHS and DHS, I'd like to test these rates out:
SHS: Base 0.17 (up to ~0.2 every second with 2x Basic Cool Run)
DHS: Base 0.26 (up to ~0.3 every second with 2x Basic Cool Run)
The reason I'd like to test these values is due to our increased rate of fire from weapons that also increased how fast we gain heat. This way the flow of a match does not change too much and we can make use of dynamic effects for retaining too much heat.
So to rephrase, raising Dissipation, lowering Capacity and adding in Heat Effects is what I'd like to try to make managing heat more dynamic in MWO. And if those dissipation rates are too high; I would like to at least get external Double Heat Sinks to use the same values found with DHS in the Engines while still lowering Capacity and adding Heat Effects.
Here is a side by side comparison of how the values suggested look compared to existing MWO values:
Here is the table showing how the Original Heat effects of BattleTech could be translated to MWO's real-time action (and also provides some opportunities for Ammo Explosions from retaining too much heat if that can be coded to be affected by retaining too much heat):
Bolded below is the original point value risking a shutdown. The table above shows the dynamic vale that we could override at the risk of dealing with negative Heat Effects. So to hit 100% for a mech with 42 SHS one would need to gain 47.84, where a mech with 21 DHS would need to gain 45.32 heat and so on.
The reason I looked at having the first avoidable shutdown to be at 28 is that the original table used the value of 14, so doubled it's 28, plus Current Heat Scale Penalties and common grouped weapons range between 20 to ~28 generated heat, so that the damage we can deal is not adversely unless we try to push our mechs too hard, risking negative heat effects in the process.
So making use of a floating scale like this, due to Heat Containment and Heat Sinks being able to push Heat Capacity up dynamically on different builds should not be a punative burden while being able to incorporate an important feature from BattleTech.
Here are some examples:
Spoiler
Knowing how the Heat Scale Penalty formula works for the AWS-8Q with quirks would not be able to fire four PPCs at once since that is a grouped heat of 55.2, or fire three PPCs for 31.95 heat, unless Heat Scale would be tweaked to allow three PPCs to be fired without penalty with a heat spike of 22.5 for three.
So an Elited AWS-8Q can stuff up to 22 DHS so that would be a max Heat Capacity of 45.44 and up to 29.08 Heat to the first avoidable Shutdown. If we go with the higher value, Heat Dissipation would be 6.6 a second otherwise it would be 5.06.
To fire another group of three PPCs together would require about ~4 to 6 seconds at that rate, so if a player fires too early (from the cooldown quirks, Fastfire and the PPC cooldown module) they can still shutdown on a second Alpha, and being on a hot map could prevent firing three together like on Therra Therma or very risky on Sulfurous Rift.
An AWS-9M can mimic the 8Q, and if it keeps the current quirks would only be able to chain fire its ERPPCs. But if the quirk gets an adjustment to 40% reduced ERPPC Heat and ERPPC heat scale would allow three ERPPC without penaly, then it could fire three ERPPCs for 27 Heat against the first shutdown of 29.08.
The TDR-9S can also comfortably fire two ERPPCs with 18 DHS. But could not fire three if Heat Scale Penalties kick in on the third ERPPC. Elited that would be a Heat Capacity of 44.96 and a Heat Dissipation of 5.4 (or 4.14 / 3.59) as shown in the table above.
With it's current quirks it can easily fire two ERPPCs for 15 Heat and would still be able to chain fire on most maps.
Looking a HBK-4P build Elited with 18 DHS would have a Heat Capacity of 44.96 and a Heat Dissipation of 5.4 (or 4.14 / 3.59). So it could fire seven Medium Lasers at 28.08 heat, but that is near the cap at 28.77. To alpha seven again, the player would need to wait for more than~5 seconds on most maps and hot maps would reduce the alpha with a longer period to dissipate heat to the first shutdown limit.
Next, taking a look at a Stormcrow with three ERLL and two ERML, firing all five weapons together would no longer be possible since that is a combined heat spike of 49.2.
A realistic number of DHS for this loadout is 18 DHS that would allow a max Heat Capacity of 44.96 and a Dissipation rate of 5.4 (or 4.14 / 3.59); so firing two ERLLs is still possible at 20 heat and it would take about ~4 seconds on the average map to be able to fire that group of weapons again.
The next example is of a Timberwolf using four ERLLs and 24 DHS. Firing those together would not be possible without consequences. It has a max cap 45.68 and the first avoidable shutdown at 29.54, where only two ERLLs would be able to be fired at once.
And with 24 DHS the dissipation would be 7.2 (or 5.52 / 4.55) so the build would need to wait around ~3 seconds to alpha the second group of two lasers.
A third Clan build is a Warhawk with four ERPPC and 27 DHS. It would have a Heat Capacity of 46.04 and a Dissipation rate of 8.1 (or 6.21 / 5.04), where it could only chain fire ERPPCs without any quirks to avoid dealing with overriding shutdown, but should be able to sustain chain firing pretty well with its dissipation.
Another build is an Adder with its Prime configuration. It has a total of 11 DHS giving it a max capacity of 44.12 and a Dissipation rate of 3.3 (or 2.53 / 2.46). With the regular cap at 28.24, it can chain fire its ERPPCs comfortably enough.
If the dissipation rates seem too high, then the rates can easily be tweaked down from the numbers I'm starting with in these examples and we would have a significantly lower Heat Capacity also.
And Clan mechs will be getting their quirk pass in the future so it will be interesting to see what is in store for them!
LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.
Posted 08 January 2015 - 07:43 AM
This isn't TT. Leave the heat scale as it is.
The only thing I'm interested in seeing, is the removal of that nonsensical Ghost Heat. Adding scales to make random events occur may be a good idea for a game based on dice rolls, but is ludicrous for a game like MWO.
I want my performance to be based on my skill and not some programmed chance cube.
The only thing I'm interested in seeing, is the removal of that nonsensical Ghost Heat. Adding scales to make random events occur may be a good idea for a game based on dice rolls, but is ludicrous for a game like MWO.
I want my performance to be based on my skill and not some programmed chance cube.
You do realize that the heat scale is not changing too much from current MWO values, and that the increased dissipation suggestion will help builds deal with our current rates of fire?
If you know how the heat system works, you should realize that there is nothing random to how heat increases or decreases.
Where you get the % chances is when riding high amounts of excess heat that is not being pumped out fast enough by heat sink dissipation.
LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.
Posted 08 January 2015 - 09:05 AM
Praetor Knight, on 08 January 2015 - 08:21 AM, said:
You do realize that the heat scale is not changing too much from current MWO values, and that the increased dissipation suggestion will help builds deal with our current rates of fire?
If you know how the heat system works, you should realize that there is nothing random to how heat increases or decreases.
Where you get the % chances is when riding high amounts of excess heat that is not being pumped out fast enough by heat sink dissipation.
The heat scale change itself is not objectionable to me. The addition of random chance is. The Mech heat warning and shutdown is to prevent the Mech from overheating beyond the range of its safety limit. If the random chances and penalties the OP wishes to add are beyond this current limit, then fine; that's fair. If these additions are to be added below the current cut-off, then I am very much against the implementation.
When I am running my Mechs, I often successfully run a heat curve between 80% and 90%. Even with the proposed dissipation increases, it is unlikely that I will cease doing so. A lot of my Mechs are energy boats (HBK-4P, Novas, Adders, Kit Foxes, TDRs, Firestarters, Quickdraws, etc.). Because of my skill, I can run a higher heat curve on them effectively. The last thing I want to see in this game, are random chances for my Mech to spontaneously combust, accrue damage, or suffer some sort of negative effect because I am in the middle of a hot fight. Such penalties should only occur if you exceed the current heat limit, as is the current implementation.
In reality, such cut-offs exist to prevent negative impacts. It is only when the cut-offs are exceeded that the chance for failure exists. To artificially induce such chances below the safety limit, simply because some people want this to be like TT, is both flawed and foolish.
It's not bad and looks like it will work alright with how MWO is. It also does not lock overall threshold, which honestly I'm less than thrilled with.
I've been working on something different, with no intention of it being for MWO, because I consider MWO's heat system a lost cause with developers who have no intention of redesigning. Thus, I have a bit more in the way of liberties.
While I won't give the full details, I've worked on two systems with the assumption of transitioning a real time Battletech game with a 1 to 1 translation with traditional tabletop while removing the dice rolls almost completely...from everything. Yes, this means through armor criticals, pilot consciousness, engine crits, heatsink taxing rules and more. And by extension, yes, this means the heat scale.
Rather than go into the heat scale and such at the moment, I'll just convey the two basic concepts of heatsinks.
Spoiler
The first, we're all familiar with. I call it Solid Rate Cooling Strength.
The concept is simple: Solid Rate Cooling Strength = You cool a solid X amount per second.
Say you have 16 SHS. You cool at a rate of 16/10 = 1.6 heat per second.
You have a mech threshold of 30, and for 16 SHS you have a sink threshold of 16.
This allows you to function and forces you to control your heat. Even a heat neutral build has to fear heat, as in this translation just because you can fire 3 PPCs across 10 seconds in TT, doesn't mean you can do it all at once here. The 8Q has 28 single heatsinks, and in 10 seconds has 2 heat left over. Here, 3 PPCs will bring you to a shutdown if done at once, but you can spread 3 PPCs across 10 seconds and have 2 heat left over. Ever notice all 3 PPCs don't hit the same spot? They won't here, either.
What is important to mention is that this first concept keeps heatsink cooling, heatsink threshold and mech threshold as three separate entities. This is closer to a real-time translation of tabletop.
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Before I mention the second one, the following is true of both concepts.
Mech Threshold: This is the 0 to 30 scale. At 14 and up, you have the typical mech problems. You could, if you wanted, say this is the reactor's limiter on power output. Regardless, this regulates all possible heat at any one instant, including the potential for abuse the second threshold can create.
Now for heatsink taxing.
Sink Threshold, this is the threshold created by your heatsinks. Unlike MWO which combines the two to allow insane amounts of firepower to be flung at once, this stays true to BT in that it is separate as per the heatsink taxing rule. In a sense, this forces you to spread your firepower out. Having more heatsinks does allow you to handle your firepower, allowing you to use more at once as well without the risk of melting your heatsinks -- but can your reactor handle it? That's how the mech threshold will crosscheck even if you have a higher-than-thirty sink threshold.
If you generate x heat more than your heatsinks (in this case 16 SHS + 5 as an example = 21 heat) at any one time, you begin overwhelming your heatsinks. Continuing to do so will cause them to systematically begin melting. The higher the heat, the less time you have before the damage is done and before it is repeated. It will begin with the heatsinks closest to the engine and branch outward.
When a heatsink melts, the heatsink threshold drops, too. This is in addition to reduced cooling, making it easier and easier for your heatsinks to begin melting.
If you melt too many heatsinks, you will begin to heat up for simply functioning (i.e. if you're down to 1 single heatsink, you might handle cruising speeds but even trying to 'run' will soon overwhelm you to the point of the mech eventually ceasing to function and forcing you to shutdown to cool or abandon the mech...or cook inside of it). An engine crit, which generates 0.5 heat per second and 5 heat in 10 seconds, will very quickly begin to overwhelm even DHS mechs.
A Clan mech when it loses a side torso automatically takes 2 engine crits... Ouch. I can tell you from some experience, nothing is more crippling than the rise of 1 heat per second that you cannot control.
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The second concept is called Deteriorating Rate Cooling Strength. Deteriorating Rate Cooling Strength = You cool X amount total in 10 seconds. While it can cool half of the heat you generate at any moment instantly, this deteriorates the over-time cooling you can produce.
Instead of a solid, even rate, this is meant to act more closely to real heatsinks in which it absorbs heat and then dissipates it away.
What does this change?
The way things work. When your heatsinks are just dealing with basic heat (i.e. the engine is on and you're not doing anything), you have full cooling strength. But say you fire something. The heatsinks instantly absorb half of the heat you just generated (filling the Sink threshold), allowing you to fire things that you couldn't if it were just a literal 30 threshold (such as 2 ER PPCs). But now, your cooling power (speed) has just been reduced! The remaining heat is applied to your 30 Mech threshold.
Lets use 36 SHS or 18 DHS and twin ER PPCs.
2 ER PPCs fired at once generates 30 heat. You have 36 sink threshold and 30 mech threshold. In the Solid Rate concept you'd shutdown, causing this to be a bad idea and you'll probably never do it again.
But this is the Deteriorating Rate concept!
Fire twin ER PPCs = 30 heat. Heatsinks instantly absorb half! 15 heat gone (absorbed by Sink Threshold)! 15 heat remaining is now applied to your Mech Threshold. 50% of your reactor's shutdown heat level has been reached.
Now, here comes the cost of your decision. Until your heatsinks are back to full strength, your cooling has gone from 3.6/sec to 2.1/sec. This is because 7 and a half of your double heatsinks (or 15 of your single heatsinks) are completely busy 'dissipating' the 15 heat you never got to suffer. Meanwhile your other heatsinks are absorbing the remaining heat gradually.
As you stop generating heat by not firing, the gradual absorption of remaining heat turns to dissipation, meanwhile the full heatsinks have dissipated their heat and will gradually restore your cooling strength. The issue is that this takes time, and the more you fire, the harder it gets.
If half of what you fire goes to sink threshold and half goes to mech threshold, how does heatsink taxing work now? Good question. Quite simply, if you fire enough heat to completely fill your sink threshold (i.e. with 20 sink threshold,) if you fire 4 PPCs (10 + 10 + 10 + 10 / 2 = 20), you'll hit full sink threshold and 20 out of 30 mech threshold, that's 66.66% heat on an MWO style heatscale. You can't cool any mech heat for 10 seconds unless you find something to help you do this (i.e. by shutting down manually or finding a water source or other environmental cooling), because they are completely full. Of course because you are 20 Mech Threshold in addition to full on the Sink threshold, that's more than the 5 heat example for when heatsinks begin to melt. So with 10 seconds of this you will have melted... 20 / 5 = 4 single heatsinks or 2 double heatsinks.
What is important to note is that the Deteriorating Rate concept combines heatsink cooling and heatsink threshold while keeping mech threshold as a separate entity. This is closer to a realistic translation of tabletop (as opposed to a real time translation).
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In both designs, if you can deal with 36 heat in 10 seconds, you can deal with 36 heat in 10 seconds and it will be gone.
The first puts more of a hard limit on what you can fire, especially on what is possible to fire at the same time. The punishment is very quickly felt. However, your cooling is not affected by how much you fire, and you can see in real time what is going on with the heat of your machine, allowing you great control over managing your heat. This system is simple and thus it is also fairly easy to min/max.
The second puts a soft limit on what you can fire, where you can fire more than your heatsinks can handle. The resulting punishment is gradual, felt over time, and the regret for your poor decisions will be some time after the cause. This system is much more difficult to min/max, and like running a vehicle without anti-freeze or water in the radiator, can punish or forgive you over time depending on how you manage your heat.
Both control the amount of firepower you can dispense and force you to weigh yourself down with heatsinks, while keeping single and double heatsinks viable. And both are perfectly translatable at a 1 to 1 scale with tabletop, so anything that can be done on pen and paper can be done without any changes in a real time game. This makes balancing everything so much simpler, as the nearly 30+ years of balancing for Battletech can be applied directly to a game using this system as opposed to reinventing balance as PGI had to do.
Fun, no?
Sadly neither system will work for MWO, even if it could be done every single thing would have to be redone and rebalanced around it... as it's designed specifically to translate TT into real time and allow that real time to translate perfectly back into TT with no deficiencies.
Though I am curious as to opinions from those who are like-minded.
Although I've grown to accept and manage the current PGI implementation of their heat system, I would be for testing the ideas above, both the OP's and Koniving's (particularly your second proposal), and see if they fair better. If it could reduce the insane amount of alphas, especially from clan weapons, I would embrace a new system that reduces or eliminates this problem in the game.
LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.
Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:30 PM
Alphas aren't much of a problem.
If a Clanner Alphas, then he just created a window for you to shred him. Most Clan Mechs run too hot to fight effectively after and alpha or two. Since their weapons have a long burn time compared to IS (that goes for energy and ballistics), you can spread the damage fairly easily and then kill the Clanner when he overheats.
My BLR-1S beat a Daishi in a toe-to-toe fight using just two MLs. Daishi's CT armor was open, but the internals were healthy. My Mech was out of LRMs and just had MLs. I baited the Daishi and closed to range, spreading damage as I did. Sure nuff, he overheated. I just stood there in front of him and cored him out.
...Now...a good Clan pilot won't Alpha because of the heat. He'll fire in groups or with chain fire and systematically destroy you. Been there, had it happen (and have done it). In that case, hand-wringing over Alphas isn't applicable because the pilot avoided them entirely.
Overall though, I think most people, though unhappy with heat, have become comfortable dealing with it. For many, it's become something of an "I prefer the known evil to the unknown" kind of thing. I'll admit that I myself fall into that category. As someone competitive in nature, I'd rather take the known heat scale and all it's shortcomings over a new scale, simply because I have familiarity with the old one. If someone can convince me that the new scale is genuinely better, then I'll take it.
However, one thing I will never accept, is an artificial insertion of random chance. When I pull the trigger and overheat, causing damage or death to my Mech, then shame on me; but I better not pull the trigger and die due to an ammo explosion while still less than three-quarters of my heat gauge is full!
...And again, the shutdown cut-out is a safety feature to prevent damage to the Mech due to overheating! If you pass the shut-down threshold, then you are chancing damage; perhaps cataclysmic in nature! To say, "Naw, we're gonna change that to 60%" is awful; you're cutting the heat gauge by nearly half! Even if you are dissipating heat more quickly, it won't matter in the long run. It's nearly impossible to fight below 60% during a match! I will also add that percentages mean exactly that; percents. When something is manufactured with a safety threshold for heat, like in the Mechs in question, there is a set temperature at which the safety feature activates. Let's say, for the sake of an example, that the limit is 100 degrees. The Mech would accrue damage at 110 degrees, so as soon as it hits 100 degrees, the safety cut-out activates and shuts down the Mech. Since damage is only dealt at 110 degrees, no harm is done to the Mech. Now, if the Mech is at 60%, then it's perfectly fine; there's no need to shut it down. If it's at 90%, then it's still within the safe zone and no harm will be done to the Mech, neither will it be shut down. If 100 degrees is exceeded, then the Mech heat is in the danger zone and there is a chance of damage. At 110 degrees and higher, damage is certain.
That's why I am so vehemently against this. The idea is great for TT and dice games where chance is a driver; but in a skill based game, trying to force chance into it by changing the heat threshold to be unattainable is flat-out wrong, especially when such a change would defeat the purpose and normal operation of a shut-down cut-out.
LocationSitting on a 12x multiplier and voting for Terra Therma
Posted 08 January 2015 - 01:59 PM
Koniving, on 08 January 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:
/Length...
I recognize your first proposal as a reasonable "real-time" implementation of the TT mechanic but am a little hazy on what the 2nd is supposed to accomplish. I gather that it's supposed to be a more accurate representation of Sefan's law and actual thermal dynamics but it seems needlessly complex from a game play perspective while actually encouraging PP-FLD rather than discouraging it.
@ the OP
I still think that you are over-thinking the heat penalties.
Even without engine heat, adding a throttle interlock that reduces your throttle by X% when your heat is at Y% would be pretty straight forward. Likewise for increasing weapon recycle rates so that you don't produce more heat than you can sink.
From there I would say that you can press "Override" to avoid these penalties but then (and only then) do you run the risk of ammo explosions and the like. This serves to make the Override function a proper risk v reward choice. Is that big alpha worth risking the wrath of the RNG? Do you feel lucky? Well do you, punk?
LocationSitting on a 12x multiplier and voting for Terra Therma
Posted 08 January 2015 - 02:09 PM
Nightmare1, on 08 January 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:
However, one thing I will never accept, is an artificial insertion of random chance. When I pull the trigger and overheat, causing damage or death to my Mech, then shame on me; but I better not pull the trigger and die due to an ammo explosion while still less than three-quarters of my heat gauge is full!
Out of curiosity would you find something along the line of the following acceptable?
Introduce a throttle penalty associated with heat scale. As your heat approaches 100% your maximum throttle setting, forward and reverse is reduced by X%. You also have a trigger lock that prevents a weapon from firing if doing so will put you over 100% heat.
You can disable these penalties / "safety features" by pressing the Override button but doing so opens you up to the RNG.
LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.
Posted 08 January 2015 - 02:25 PM
HlynkaCG, on 08 January 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:
[/size]
Out of curiosity would you find something along the line of the following acceptable?
Introduce a throttle penalty associated with heat scale. As your heat approaches 100% your maximum throttle setting, forward and reverse is reduced by X%. You also have a trigger lock that prevents a weapon from firing if doing so will put you over 100% heat.
You can disable these penalties / "safety features" by pressing the Override button but doing so opens you up to the RNG.
The throttle lock I would not, but the weapon lock could work. Frankly, I don't see much difference between it and the current shut-down feature though, except that it helps prevent you from accidentally doing so.
LocationSitting on a 12x multiplier and voting for Terra Therma
Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:01 PM
Nightmare1, on 08 January 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:
The throttle lock I would not, but the weapon lock could work. Frankly, I don't see much difference between it and the current shut-down feature though, except that it helps prevent you from accidentally doing so.
Assuming the penalties were clearly defined in a "(f)X = Y" manner, why not?
LocationPeeking over your shoulder while eating your cookies.
Posted 08 January 2015 - 03:59 PM
HlynkaCG, on 08 January 2015 - 03:01 PM, said:
[/size]
Assuming the penalties were clearly defined in a "(f)X = Y" manner, why not?
If the penalties were clearly defined in such a manner, sure, but only if it made sense. Like I said, it does not make sense to add penalties when you are in the "safe" zone below your 100% threshold. That, even for a fantasy sci-fi game, is ludicrous to me. This could also be because I work in a chemical plant and am very familiar with built-in safeties and redundancies. It seems laughable that a mech costing 10,000,000 C-bills would have a safety cut-out system that did not function until after the Mech had already sustained personally-inflicted damage. Also, from what I read in the books (I know, I know; TT = Bible, but this isn't TT), the safety cut-out usually did prevent internal damages from occurring.
Now, if the heat scale is fixed in a manner where 0 - 100 is your normal operating room, then that's okay with me. The penalties can all come afterwards. What I think of when I look at this, is not reducing the heat scale or hampering it in any way; leave it as is. Instead, remove the auto-damage/death beyond the 100% and replace it with the penalties scale. It makes more sense there because passing the 100% line moves you out of the "safe" zone. This may make the heat scale too large, in which case compressing it could be justified if the dissipation rate of the heat sinks is increased in such a way to create a scale that functions in an identical, or nearly identical, manner to the one we have.
I suppose a better way of putting would be like this: I'm A-OK with adding in all this stuff so long as it comes after the 100% shut-down safety cut-out. Setting it to start adding penalties at 38%, followed by chance cube damages or death after 60%, to me, seems remarkably stupid. Any such negative effects, on most modern pieces of equipment (and MW/BT is in the future, so it should be even more advanced) would normally occur after the safety limits had been surpassed.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to say. It's not that I'm closed to changes to our heat scale, I just want to see some common sense changes, and I don't want a chance cube dictating my fights. When I face an opponent, I want it to be me versus them, and not each of us fighting while some cosmic pair of coded chance cubes are rolling around like crazy and causing weird things to happen. If I die, it better be because I made a mistake or the other player was a better pilot, and not because my set of dice gave me snake eyes.
Edit: Spotted a math error, fixed.
Final edit: Added some more to the "fluff" aspect dramatizing how the system could 'creep up' on you and get you.
HlynkaCG, on 08 January 2015 - 01:59 PM, said:
I recognize your first proposal as a reasonable "real-time" implementation of the TT mechanic but am a little hazy on what the 2nd is supposed to accomplish. I gather that it's supposed to be a more accurate representation of Sefan's law and actual thermal dynamics but it seems needlessly complex from a game play perspective while actually encouraging PP-FLD rather than discouraging it.
You're absolutely correct. It is a bit more complicated and a little needlessly so, but this isn't aimed for a game. It is aimed for a simulation. Also correct, the deteriorating rate concept would actually allow you fire off quite an alpha strike. In a sense, it is meant to allow what you see in the Mechwarrior 'cinematics' as well as certain novels where, rather clearly, the core game physics were completely lost on the authors.
The Solid Rate concept would allow you to either generate up to 5 units of heat above your heatsink limit before heatsinks begin to melt OR 30 heat at any one instant in which you'd abruptly shut down until reduced to less than 50% of Mech Threshold at 14 units of heat; whichever of the two comes first to stop and control your potential alpha strike...
The Deteriorating Rate concept on the other hand allows you to fire as much as you can handle in heatsinks + 30 threshold as many, eh, for lack of a better word "tabletop players who don't put much thought into it" and PGI's David and Paul seem to believe you can do in an instant (as opposed to in a 10 second time period), but then forces a time limiter which would deteriorate your actual second by second cooling ability, essentially treating your second by second absorption rate and your dissipation rate as two sides of the same coin with the same limit.
In essence, where MWO combines heatsink threshold + mech threshold and adds cooling on top of it... the Deteriorating Rate concept combines Heatsink Threshold and Cooling as OneCombinedEntity, and then adds Mech Threshold.
You still will not get away with what you can in MWO.
Before I continue, it is important to note that while every MW system ever made follows the Solid Rate concept of You sink X heat per second.. the Deteriorating Rate concept changes this into "You sink a variable amount of heat per second depending on your heatsink availability, and then dissipate that heat over time."
I guess in the simplest terms... You fire. So long as your heatsinks can handle it, half of your heat from that shot is absorbed instantly and begins "Dissipating". Meanwhile, second by second you tick away (or sink) additional heat from your Mech Threshold to your Heatsink Threshold. The more heat you have to absorb, the harder it gets.
Lets try a quick example.
Spoiler
Vindicator 1AA. Pure stock, 16 SHS. Literally exactly enough heatsinks to keep it cool provided you are not moving. Jumping and max speed while firing can cause some heat issues, though.
16 SHS.
You fire a PPC. + 10 heat.
Heatsinks absorb 5 heat. Mech has 5 heat against its threshold.
5 heatsinks are now fully loaded and working to dissipate.
16 - 5 heat absorbed = you now effectively have 11 heatsinks of per second cooling.
You will cool at 1.1 per second, assuming you stopped generating additional heat.
In slightly less than 5 seconds you will be fully capable again. But, oh no! You had to fire again! LRM, whoosh! + 2 heat.
1 is absorbed into heatsinks. Mech threshold has gained another 1 heat.
Lets assume for a moment that this is done 2 seconds after firing the PPC.
0 seconds: Fired PPC. Cooling takes a -5 heat, mech heat raised by 5. Cooling went from 1.6/sec to 1.1/sec.
1 second. 1.1 heat sunk. Your heat is now 3.9. (There is now 6.1 heatsinks completely busy.) (5 of these heatsinks will be freed in 4 seconds.) Per second cooling ability has gone from 1.1/sec to 0.99/sec.
2 seconds. 0.99 heat sunk. Your heat is now 2.91. (There is now a total of 7 heatsinks completely busy.) (5 will be freed in 3 seconds.) (1 will be freed in 4 seconds.) (1 has just started to dissipate and will be available between 4 and 5 seconds from now).
STILL 2 seconds: You have just fired an LRM-5. + 2 heat (1 to heatsink absorption, 1 to mech threshold). (Now a total 3.91 heat to threshold). You now have 8 heatsinks completely busy. 5 available in 3 seconds. 1 available in 4 seconds. It is now 2 that had just started to dissipate and will be available between 4 and 5 seconds from now. Your cooling is reduced to 8 heatsinks worth (from 16), which is now 0.8/sec cooling.
3 seconds. .72/sec cooling
4 seconds. .648/sec cooling
5 seconds. .5832/sec cooling (+ 0.5/sec cooling, 5 heatsinks are now fully dissipated!) = 1.0832/sec cooling.
Lets jump to 5 seconds in. You'd have .5832/sec cooling. A total of 10.168 heatsinks have become busy. Since it has been five seconds since the PPC was fired, 5 of them will be freed restoring 0.5/sec cooling to that, bringing it up to 1.0832/sec at 5 seconds. Full cooling is 1.6 seconds, but you have the remaining heat to dissipate! This assumes you are not generating any additional heat, as that too will need to sink, then spend five seconds dissipating before restoring their ability to sink.
A bit to grasp, but we're still going.
Spoiler
As this continues, you will eventually not be able to cool at all, until your heatsinks have finished dissipating. With 5 heat beginning to dissipate right away and the other five being absorbed, the PPC will do all of its heat away within 10 seconds of you having fired. The more you fire, the more you cook. The more you cook, the harder it gets. Now if you only generated 16 heat in total, your mech threshold would be at 0 heat at the end of 10 seconds though whether some heatsinks might still be occupied is anyone's guess.
And yes, I'm aware it is obscenely complicated. Hence the difficulty in min/maxing it. But "feeling" it is actually far easier than comprehending it. But it does require two heat gauges for obvious reasons.
---
It is important to remind everyone, this concept was made with tabletop to real time in mind. The concept is NOT made with MWO in mind. (You'd freaking melt your mech way too quick! The mechs would be virtually invincible to weapons fire given how infrequently you could shoot given the limitations to your heat abilities.) It is designed for a BT simulation.
This means the BT armor, BT structure, BT firing ratings and BT heat levels. Provided that you keep within that, you could alpha strike and then sit and cool off for 10 full seconds. Or you could manage your abilities better by firing a weapon or two at a time, allowing you to fire more frequently at the cost of using only some weapons at a time.
But in a time of crisis, you could push it.
Spoiler
By pushing it you risk it all. Eventually your heatsinks will clog with heat, but your mech's threshold will keep climbing. You have to cruise or even run, but your heat won't sink anymore. There's just too much heat.
As it climbs, your accuracy is reduced. This is a culmination of the heat induced haze you're experiencing and systems running hot. Of course, you can't stop firing because you need to be able to fire -- yet your heatsinks are just too congested because like a fool, you wouldn't let them work and cool.
Lights are flashing.
Alarms are going off.
Coolant failure! Coolant failure!
A heatsink has literally melted inside the engine!
Another is beginning to melt as you continue to generate heat!
You can't stop. You got yourself in a bind!
To think you're only at 18 units of heat on your Mech Threshold! That's literally 60% of your mech's threshold and you're suffering all these problems!?
20 units of heat now. 21. (21 is 70% threshold). Warnings are coming all over to shut down now. But you overrode the safety system, you can't afford to stop or you will be ripped to shreds!!!!
Though you haven't been fired at for a short couple of seconds you won't take any chances. You want more distance. Surely you'll begin to be able to cool sometime soon. You're completely unaware that the heat you're generating by Sprinting and jump jetting to get away is refilling the heatsinks that would be clearing up by now to take on the on-going load.
Then you begin to hear a distinct echoing of something vibrating.
You don't recognize it; you were never this foolish before.
You never had true consequences for your actions in Mechwarrior Online!
What is that sound? Another warning about your heat is ignored.
The vibration has turned into rumbling, suddenly a violent jolt tears through the mech and causes you some whiplash!
Your worse fear has just come true.
Jerk, jolt, pop, clang, pop, pop, boom.
The ammo dump button was flashing, but you couldn't reach it in time. You had the warning but you didn't recognize it!
You. Are. Too. Late.
Explosions are soon surging through your mech. The overall force of them tears the side torso off. It and your arm have both fallen to the ground.
The new cavern leading inside your mech presents an opportunity for enemies to start eating at your insides. Or that would be the case, except your engine took a crit.
A fuel rod has just ruptured in your fusion engine.
A stackpole has begun.
"EJECT! EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!"
Surely, you would have tried to eject, except you lost consciousness from heat exhaustion. Or was it slamming your head against that panel at one of the sudden jolts where you couldn't brace yourself? Either way as you pass out, the mech itself loses the neural connection and the mech's gyro gets confusing messages, allowing the machine to go limp as it starts to topple over.
Automatic ejection would have occurred, but you disabled it fearing that you'd get thrown out of your mech prematurely for something so silly as 'an ammo explosion'. Oh if only you knew...
...But now you're dead as the engine explodes. The release of energy fries the edges of a number of nearby buildings and you, yourself, were vaporized. Others who might have been chasing you, would have seen the signs of your heat issues. Seen the signs of your impending ammo explosion, and ultimately the prelude to your stackpole, giving them plenty of warning to steer clear before you went sub-nuclear.
The real irony? You never lost enough armor to be reduced to orange on any body part. Your cause of death?
Pilot Error.
Oh sure it could have said ammo explosion, ejection failure, or even 'overheating', but lets face reality. You screwed up, you thought you could alpha strike all you wanted or perhaps you were smart enough not to alpha strike but you were firing too frequently. Now you paid for it.
It would be a painful lesson in humility, one that the pilot wouldn't initially see coming. One that waits until you look away, waits for a mistake. Your only mistake. All it takes is a bind, an oversight, or simply not paying attention.
As you can see from the above, the idea is that this would accompany every system from TT into a translation to a true Battletech Simulation. Yes, this includes pilot effects, such as consciousness, delerium, fatigue, the whole schabang of MaxTech and other aspects, too. In theory, you could find yourself shooting at a hallucination if you let the heat get too high while fatigued.
For a prime example of some of the material that has influenced this, check out this series of posts. Specifically, in that Megamek battle, follow the Blackhawk (Nova) of Phoenix mechs versus the first half of the Invasion first wave.
Everything I mentioned you will find there, short of the hallucinations (the maxtech aspect and fatigue aspects were not in the ruleset we used sadly). But the struggle that Nova went through, it is absolutely amazing. Above and beyond the call of duty. And in the end, all but 2 double heatsinks had melted, and he was finally at the point where hopping around on one leg, with one arm, with no torso twist, with a two out of three crit engine generating 1 heat per second (10 per turn), it became nearly impossible to manage heat. Jumping to escape from the Battlemaster. Pot shotting with 3/7th power ER MLs. Piloting checks at every leap, at almost every hit received, at every attempt to move as another heatsink melts and another one follows it. The absolute struggle of it all -- caused by being so foolish as to alpha strike 8 of the 12 ER medium lasers, which essentially fried a heatsink and went unnoticed. Just frying them one by one...
That is what the Deteriorating Rate concept is attempting to recreate.
1
) putting them on a slightly more even footing for that early grind.
