64 replies to this topic

[ManDaisy]

Yes yes. With your outstanding brilliance perhaps you can try countering my argument with sound logic this time instead of making broad ungrounded statements.

[Navid A1]

well... I HEAVILY use narc to ruin peoples day in my kit-fox.

while i dont want the fun to end... but...Narc needs to have its duration decreased. And it has to have an indicator (or sound distortion alert) for the victim.

currently, if you are a light with ecm... its your job to protect your unsuspecting teammates. Typing in chat helps (wish we had voip) but experience shows that they don't read chat in the heat of battle, dakka and wub wub.

[Slepnir]

Sounds like teamwork and role warfare to me. they already nerfed the heck out of how narc works on TT.

So you want more ac/ppc spam? making lrms or scouting for them less effective means more of what already is.

[ManDaisy]

1) Table top nerfs do not effect the mwo online version of the game.
2) I Refuse to believe a middle ground cannot exist. Things are not and should not be .. either pure LRM, or pure Direct fire.

[ToxinTractor]

Navid A1, on 01 July 2014 - 06:47 PM, said:

well... I HEAVILY use narc to ruin peoples day in my kit-fox.

while i dont want the fun to end... but...Narc needs to have its duration decreased. And it has to have an indicator (or sound distortion alert) for the victim.

currently, if you are a light with ecm... its your job to protect your unsuspecting teammates. Typing in chat helps (wish we had voip) but experience shows that they don't read chat in the heat of battle, dakka and wub wub.

Your right in the fact that narc needs to alert you to being narced.. A light flicking on in the cockpit with a sound attached to it wouldnt be a bad idea. Sorta how we have (Had; dont remember if its fixed) the lights that turn on when you open missile bay doors.

Personally I loved MWLLs idea of the narc.. the concept that all the missiles make a B line to the mech and hit in the one spot mainly.. That way if the mech stood behind some thing that would be in the path the missiles would hit it (kinda like what we do now but instead of the cover needing to be REALLY tall to block the missiles.. it could maybe make the missiles fly in a lower arc)

[1453 R]

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

1) Table top nerfs do not effect the mwo online version of the game.
2) I Refuse to believe a middle ground cannot exist. Things are not and should not be .. either pure LRM, or pure Direct fire.

A middle ground does exist. We're just about in it right now, actually. If you're getting consistently mollycobbled by missiles, then you're doing something wrong. I've played several matches with my brother while I was in my mixed-armaments Warhawk and he was running NARC in his Cute Fox. It was mean when it worked, but we had several guys duck away from the NARC pod - and if two players specifically coordinating their builds and working together on VoIP can manage to miss the mark with NARC, how truly terrible can it really be?

[HlynkaCG]

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 06:40 PM, said:

Yes yes. With your outstanding brilliance perhaps you can try countering my argument with sound logic this time instead of making broad ungrounded statements.

Now there is a case of the pot calling the kettle black if ever I saw one.

[wanderer]

Sorry, but no.

NARC -does- need a warning for the target. Absolutely. That they didn't at least put one next to the ECM indicators was really, reaaaaaaally dumb on PGI's part, and that needs fixing.

But the whole "see it a mile away" thing? THAT'S THE POINT. It's broadcasting a signal powerful enough to guide LRMs in from 1000m away. The reason it's awesome for LRMs is simple- it's the target's very own personal "I see you" spotter. It's an electronic beacon, the EW equivalent of strapping a big ol' police light on your 'Mech going "HERE I AM, SHOOT ME!".

How is making it half the range of the weapon it's suppose to help (and outranged by TAG for 4x or more the weight) anything other than making it garbage?

[Bobzilla]

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 07:21 PM, said:

1) Table top nerfs do not effect the mwo online version of the game.
2) I Refuse to believe a middle ground cannot exist. Things are not and should not be .. either pure LRM, or pure Direct fire.

Everything they've done with LRMs causes the OP/useless problem starting with ECM.

ECM made LRMs not work at all.
Countless pices of equipment can be used to counter ECM.
Those pices of equipment used to counter ECM have an exaggerated effect on mechs without ECM.

So really your problem is with ECM, not narc. Narc wouldn't need to be where it is if it wasn't for ECM.

[Mercules]

As I stated in another thread:

Narc:
3 tons for the launcher
1 ton for every 12 shots
Projectile is slow than an AC20 shot making it hard to hit with
Projectile can be shot down by AMS
Range is 450 Meters
It does NOTHING without a someone else having LRMs to take advantage of it


Basically a mech using a NARC has to give up enough tonnage and a hard point that could be used to mount an SRM6 or almost and LRM 10, then get rather close to the enemy to be able to hit it with the narc, smack it with the slow moving projectile, and hope that their teammates have LRMs and are paying attention. That is if the opposing mech or some friendly mech in the way doesn't have AMS that shoots it down or isn't fast enough to get into cover when the LRMs do come.

It's a very situational and iffy weapon to equip. If it gave the pilot warning that he had a NARC pod on his mech it would be perfect.

[Admiral YoloSwaggins]

Narc is broken. It's a 3.5 ton weapon that is essentially a one shot one kill weapon. The problem is there is too little of a reward for using it. Narcing a mech should give you a reward. Every hit, regardless of whether the target was in LOS should give the user cbills/xp and it should fall off after a certain amount of damage. Probably somewhere near 100 damage but it certainly shouldn't last infinitely. Someone who is pugging shouldn't have to count on getting an ecm mech on his/her team. The weapon shouldn't be a one shot one kill weapon. Lrms arc even into the trenches on Canyon network.

[Bulletsponge0]

only change I'd make to narc is for a notification on the hud of the mech that has been narc'd...you know, something in addition to the constant "Incoming missile" warning that invariably follows...

[Agent of Change]

Ok I've got an idea hard limit on the Marc transmission set at 1000m.

problem solved.

[Gambino87]

Frak that, how about we just have a computer notification that you've been narc'd. Like "Incoming Missiles" or 'Low Signal' when you're ECM. Have a "Warning! NARC Detected!"

[Mizore]

Wow, lot's of stupid ideas...
The only thing what is needed is a sign (similar to the ECM sign) that you're NARCed.
Everything else would just nerf NARC into meaninglessness.

Remember:
IS-Narc

Mercules, on 02 July 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

3 tons for the launcher
1 ton for every 12 shots
Projectile is slow than an AC20 shot making it hard to hit with
Projectile can be shot down by AMS
Range is 450 Meters
It does NOTHING without a someone else having LRMs to take advantage of it

Uses a missile hardpoint
The rewards you get for NARCing are close to meaningless
And it does ZERO damage!

There are already so many trade-offs, don't nerf NARC back into oblivion!

[Agent of Change]

Mizore, on 02 July 2014 - 06:35 AM, said:

Wow, lot's of stupid ideas...
The only thing what is needed is a sign (similar to the ECM sign) that you're NARCed.
Everything else would just nerf NARC into meaninglessness.

Remember:
IS-NarcUses a missile hardpoint
The rewards you get for NARCing are close to meaningless
And it does ZERO damage!

There are already so many trade-offs, don't nerf NARC back into oblivion!

Seriously though. All we need is two little indicator lights. 1 that say "hey Dumbass you're TAGed!" and 1 that says "Yo Schmuck you got NARC'd"

And then once you know someone NARC'd on you, you may then cheese it from the fuzz (missiles) and then go find that snitch and give him stitches.

Everyone is now happy. Go team. /thread

Edited by Agent of Change, 02 July 2014 - 06:40 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

I just narc 4 games in a row with maybe 1 mech with single lrm10-20. I have a feeling its already nerfed by players and maybe even matchmaker.

On the other hand there Is all the 2xerppc+gauss timbers you could ever want.

[Kampfer]

Narc is kinda heavy 3 tons i think, the ammo is 6 per ton and it's a direct fire weapon that travels about the same speed as SRM and has no lock on capabilities. Hitting anyone from a distance takes a bit of skill unless they are a mouth breather standing still, in which case you deserve the Blue and Gold Rainbow.

[Pygar]

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 05:06 PM, said:

Narc is a bit too powerful at the moment. I feel the range it can share targeting information should be lowered. Too much missile spam going on. Transmission should be like a 500m radius from the narced target.

NO, L2P/RTFM SCRUB

[WarHippy]

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Reason number 1: Narc missiles arch change causes a lot of cover to not be viable. Even behind a cliff if you narced missiles will travel at a higher arch and come down steep to go over any obstacles;

Even when Narc'd you have options for avoiding the missiles so I don't see the issue here. When Narc'd its like having the spot light on you in the middle of an open field at night, and it is a dangerous situation to be in as it should be.

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Reason number 2: Narced mechs are subjected to ALL the missiles from the enemy side. No matter what the distance.
If narc range broadcast had a limit, then only SOME of the mechs within range would have missile line of site. This translates into less missiles in the air comming at you the farther you are away. No more at 900 meters if you get narced 300+ missiles raining down. Only if your within a reasonable vicinity of missile launching mechs will 300+ missiles rain down on you.

Like I said above there are options for avoiding the missiles even when Narc'd so I don't see the problem. Add to that not every missile boat is going to be at an angle that they can even hit you depending on both their and your positions, and that assumes they aren't fighting someone else when you get Narc'd.

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Reason number 3: Adding a limit to narc range broadcast and let mechs outrun the narc becon... kind of. If something is narced withing 500meters of a missile launching mech that does not have line of site, then if they can run 501 meters away, they can escape the missile death storm, instead of being guaranteed a (CHEAP) death.

They can out run the missiles by getting to 1001m so why should people also be able to out run the Narc broadcast as well? How many counters do missiles and their supporting systems need before you will stop complaining? Also getting Narc'd is not a guaranteed death nor is it cheap.

ManDaisy, on 01 July 2014 - 06:29 PM, said:

Reason number 4: 750 meter launcher SHOULD NOT EQUAL the narc range broadcast. Simiply there is no reason why both have to be equal. I can shoot a wifi router out of a cannon to the moon. It doesn't mean I will have wifi all the way to the damn moon.

Are you really comparing a 167lb. Narc beacon to a $50 router you picked up at Wal-mart? Think of it kind of like a Flight Recorder on a plane that has a broadcast range of 30miles which is a great deal farther than the 1000m max range of the LRMs we are launching. Narc is fine as is.