141 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

3rdworld, on 02 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Moon landing is a LIE! Just a Cold War propaganda!

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2014 - 11:03 AM.

[Ultimax]

Jman5, on 02 July 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

Lies! They are actually really useful for low ton competitive matches, which generally devolve into very close quarter, long duration brawls. Long-term heat management is key in these games and range isn't a big deal like it usually is.

Can we keep the discussion on the gameplay that the vast majority of players will be involved in?

Or should we fabricate some competition where single mounted LB2Xs have relevance?

[Rebas Kradd]

FupDup, on 02 July 2014 - 09:56 AM, said:

No, it's not a good change. See my breakdown just above your post.

Big deal.

[Khobai]

Quote

Well, now we've found that guy.

My 1000+ damage builds all used x6 ERSLs. They were stupidly heat efficient at 5 damage for 2 heat. They rivaled ballistics for heat efficiency which an energy weapon should never do!

4 damage for 2 heat is much more in line with the other lasers in the game. So its a good change.

Edited by Khobai, 02 July 2014 - 11:08 AM.

[Koniks]

Sprouticus, on 02 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

this assumes constant fire. The reality of MWO is that you do NOT maximize your DPS. Ever. Even if a circle of death you do not fire every time a weapon cooldown is up. This is not WoW where you sit at the dragons back leg and focus on max DPS. Every mech has to tank to some extent. Everyone (should) torso twist, etc. And that makes short cooldown times FAr less useful than it would be otherwise.

You don't have to assume constant fire for a DPS advantage to be useful. Both of them have niche uses.

The only loadouts that are almost universally useful in the game's current state involve ECM and/or some combination of ERPPCs, PPCs, Gauss Rifles, IS UAC5s, and IS AC5s.

[AlmightyAeng]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

But that means for half the IS Mlas weight you get almost full damage + faster cooldown. This is not a small laser anymore.

LOL. So, in that case, can we talk about the Clan Medium laser vs. the IS Large? HA.

[Sprouticus]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

There are fast Clan mechs that can go up to 130-150 kph within this time line. PGI will release them eventually so chill.




But that means for half the IS Mlas weight you get almost full damage + faster cooldown. This is not a small laser anymore.

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

There are fast Clan mechs that can go up to 130-150 kph within this time line. PGI will release them eventually so chill.

Viper- 40 tons 129 kph MEDIUM with mixed loadouts
Firemoth -20 tons 162 kpn death trap


that's it.

[3rdworld]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 11:01 AM, said:

Moon landing is a LIE! Just a Cold war propaganda!

Don't say that to loud. Our lord and savior Buzz will punch you in the face.

Edited by 3rdworld, 02 July 2014 - 11:04 AM.

[Jman5]

Ghost Badger, on 02 July 2014 - 10:55 AM, said:

There are low-ton competitive matches out there that devolve into brawls?

I feel like you've been playing Hawken and came to the wrong website...

The way most league matches go is you do a best of 5 or best 7. Each match is on a different map with different weight restrictions. So one match will have a low-ton limit like 525 which means it's mostly lights and mediums. Because lights and mediums have so much speed and generally equip low-ish range weapons they almost invariably devolve into close-qaurter brawls.

[El Bandito]

Sprouticus, on 02 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

this assumes constant fire. The reality of MWO is that you do NOT maximize your DPS. Ever. Even if a circle of death you do not fire every time a weapon cooldown is up. This is not WoW where you sit at the dragons back leg and focus on max DPS. Every mech has to tank to some extent. Everyone (should) torso twist, etc. And that makes short cooldown times FAr less useful than it would be otherwise.

Ah, but shorter beam duration leads to faster torso twisting after delivering the damage, hence better effect in brawls. Not every mech can make use of the small laser, but it has its own niche, and that is enough for the small guy. Leave the jack of all trades to the medium version.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[Ultimax]

Mizeur, on 02 July 2014 - 11:02 AM, said:

You don't have to assume constant fire for a DPS advantage to be useful.

Actually, you do.

Without a constant fire rate. DPS is a completely irrelevant metric to balance weapons to.

Sprouticus, on 02 July 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Viper- 40 tons 129 kph MEDIUM with mixed loadouts
Firemoth -20 tons 162 kpn death trap


that's it.

It gets better, out of the Prime, A, B & C configurations the most energy hard points any of those has is 5.

At which point, you probably just want cMLAS. Not like you can do much with 8 or 9 tons of pod space anyway.

So I'd rather argue for balance for weapons right now on mechs we can use right now and not mechs we might get, that might also be awful when we do get them.

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Ah, but shorter beam duration leads to faster torso twisting after delivering the damage, hence better effect in brawls.

Yes, if you are neo from the Matrix you can maximize that extra 0.25s for torso twisting.

[El Bandito]

Ultimatum X, on 02 July 2014 - 11:11 AM, said:

Yes, if you are neo from the Matrix you can maximize that extra 0.25s for torso twisting.

No, you just need <50 MS ping. For a guy like me that plays MOBA games, 0.25 second is big deal.

Sprouticus, on 02 July 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

Viper- 40 tons 129 kph MEDIUM with mixed loadouts Firemoth -20 tons 162 kpn death trap that's it.

Ahead of you. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hankyu

Also, by not replying to my second point, I assume you agree with it.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2014 - 11:20 AM.

[Bigbacon]

still going to SL boat my nova....its still pretty much a quick firing 48 point alpha without a shut down and very little heat build up. rinse and repeat every cooldown.

Edited by Bigbacon, 02 July 2014 - 11:17 AM.

[Screech]

Can we now remove the link between small and mediums clan lasers for GH at least?

[Sprouticus]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

No, you just need <50 MS ping.



Ahead of you. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hankyu

Also, by not replying to my second point, I assume you agree with it.

Ok, that is a sweet ass mech.

[Ultimax]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2014 - 11:15 AM, said:

Way ahead of you. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hankyu

I think you are still missing the point.

The main light mech in this game that uses small lasers can mount like 8 of them (firestarters).

Or it mounts 4 to 6 of them, but also mounts 4 machine guns (also firestarters).


Now looking at the cheetah, we can see pretty clearly you are looking at 4 to 6 small lasers at most.


So IF we get the Cheetah, and IF we get the C-config, THEN we might get one really fast light mech with 6 or 7 energy hardpoints.


On the other hand, since it has ECM, it will probably be better off using longer ranged weapons anyway.

[BARBAR0SSA]

3rdworld, on 02 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

*cough* mars climate orbiter *cough*

[El Bandito]

Ultimatum X, on 02 July 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I think you are still missing the point. The main light mech in this game that uses small lasers can mount like 8 of them (firestarters). Or it mounts 4 to 6 of them, but also mounts 4 machine guns (also firestarters). Now looking at the cheetah, we can see pretty clearly you are looking at 4 to 6 small lasers at most. So IF we get the Cheetah, and IF we get the C-config, THEN we might get one really fast light mech with 6 or 7 energy hardpoints. On the other hand, since it has ECM, it will probably be better off using longer ranged weapons anyway.

140 KPH after mastery+ 4-7 energy hard point (Config C has seven energy hardpoints!) + missiles hard points is enough to warrant the use of Small lasers. ECM actually allows this fast Light mech to close in more effectively. It even has jump jets.

Better to normalize weapons right now than to wait. After all, that's exactly what the community said and made PGI to gimp the IS SSRM2 hard, never mind that IS SSRM6 is 8 years off, and is more unlikely to be here before the Arctic Cheetah.

Fair is fair.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 July 2014 - 12:05 PM.

[3rdworld]

shad0w4life, on 02 July 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:

*cough* mars climate orbiter *cough*

Can't hear you, our robots are to busy taking selfies on mars.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mcgral18, on 02 July 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

So, apparently the cPulse lasers were buffed, and the ERSL nerfed to 4 damage with a 20M range buff.

http://mwomercs.com/game/patch-notes

LB spread decreased for smaller cannons, thankfully.



Clan LB2 spread set to 0.45, down from 1.3

Clan LB5 spread to 0.85, down from 1.3

Clan LB2, AC2, UAC2 and IS AC2 cooldown set to 0.72 down from 0.8
Clan ER Small Laser damage reduced from 5.0 to 4.0
Clan ER Small Laser range increased from 180m/360m to 200m/400m
Clan Small Pulse Laser damage increased from 3.4 to 4.4
Clan Medium Pulse Laser damage increase from 7.0 to 7.4
Clan Medium Pulse Laser heat increased from 5.0 to 5.5
Clan Medium Pulse Laser duration reduced from 1.1 to 0.9

Well, the small pulse now has a very small reason to be taken over the ERSL, but twice the tonnage for a 25% burn reduction and only 4 more damage still seems poor. Only the Med Pulse got a burn decrease, and the large didn't get touched.


I'm not sure that'll be enough, but should be nice to try the Med Pulse.

Clan ER Small needed it's heat nerfed, with it doing 4 each, but I suppose a damage nerf might work.

Really wish they would get it through their heads to reduced IS MLaser heat to 3-3.5