372 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

We were farming c-bills for hours.

It's great that I can play my videogame the way I want to, without needing to tell the 5th guy that 'we're full up.' 4 man limits? 2014? Really?

gg close

[SirLANsalot]

A solo player should never be put into a game with a group of 5+
A solo player should never be put into a game that has more than one premade on a team
Both teams must have the same mix of lights / mediums / heavies / assaults to launch
Both teams must be full to launch
A group of 11 is never allowed into the queue, the matchmaker must refuse the request
Teams must conform to the 3’s rule, otherwise the matchmaker must refuse the request




Stright from the patch notes.


SOLO's WILL NEVER SEE 12man drops!


12's are part of the GROUP que. This means that if you make a 2+ group, you will be ELIGIBLE for BOTH solo and group que. If you make a 5-10man group, it will find a group to fill in the gap's, the opposition will be similar, but could be made up of a pair of 6 mans. Either way, 3's is still enforced when you drop.

Edited by SirLANsalot, 02 July 2014 - 03:55 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

I forget how world of tanks does it, I believe its pairs if none are premium, three or four max if premium, and if you want to group up in larger numbers you have to play in the big boy 12 mans and if your a player or two short though.

now while its not perfect, it seems a good deal better than anything that pgi have come up with

however there are alot of differences one of which and has a major effect on things are proper tiered vehciles

Edited by Cathy, 02 July 2014 - 04:00 PM.

[Drasari]

Big Tin Man, on 02 July 2014 - 03:41 PM, said:

In this thread:

WAAAAAAAHHHHH!!! My 2-4 man ROFLstomp group with a pumped up ELO is getting ROFLstomped by bigger groups!!! PGI PLOX NERF TEAMWORK NAO!!!

The game needs VOIP. Typing in information while taking fire doesn't work. Every shooter out there now that requires teamwork to win has VOIP as a requirement. Even the dreaded COD, where 12 year old kids that scream obscenities constantly can at least tell you where the sniper is, and where an ambush is set.

Protip--Go here: http://mwomercs.com/...s-inner-sphere/
or here: http://mwomercs.com/...factions-clans/

Try out some groups, and find one that fits your playstyle and hours. Make more friends, get on teamspeak. ROFLstomp others in your new larger group.

Ready comprehension is not your strong suit is it.

I wan't the same # of group composition to go up against an equal numbered group. That's it.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Just read some statistics when my unit ran 8-12 man groups after the patch.

20+ wins, 1 loss. About half of the wins were 12-0 or 12-1.

Need to do more testing during the week.

[Fuggles]

limmiting groups to 4 OR 12s but in a seperate que was bad for the game. Private matches to foster competitions and a flexible grouping system are good for the game.

what the MM system needs now is more people playing, the more people the more groups the larger chance it can make fair matches. people that ran exclusively in 4 mans in the pub que are going to have to adapt and in all likelyhood, their inflated elo scores are going to have to come down.

[1453 R]

Cathy, on 02 July 2014 - 03:53 PM, said:

I forget how world of tanks does it, I believe its pairs if none are premium, three or four max if premium, and if you want to group up in larger numbers you have to play in the big boy 12 mans and if your a player or two short though.

now while its not perfect, it seems a good deal better than anything that pgi have come up with

Unfortunately Cathy, two-mans are a problem for PGI no matter which way you slice it.

The rabid solo-droppers don’t want to see ANY teams in their queue. They had to be forced to choke down 2-4 drops, and even that generated a tremendous amount of unnecessary hate. I understand where you’re coming from just fine – whenever I’m grouped it’s usually just with my brother down on base in Texas, whom I don’t get to do much with anymore. But the thing is, we’re still a group, and if Piranha cuts 2-man teams from the grouping rules, it manages to both complicate group matchmaking much more than it already is and opens up a whole host of “WELL, I JUST WANT TO PLAY WITH MY TWO BEER BUDDIES! WHY CAN’T I DO THAT IN THE SOLO SCRUB QUEUE?!” threads we really, really could do without.

Unfortunately, The Playerbase, as a whole, has several mutually contradictory requirements – and I use the term ‘requirement’ very deliberately – of the matchmaker. People want to play with groups of friends of any size, they want to be matched fairly according to Elo and weight brackets, they want the MM to take thirty seconds or less to find a match, and they also want to never ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER EVER see any kind of group ever if they want to drop in the solo queue for any reason. Nor, apparently, do they ever want to drop against any group larger than themselves in the group queue.

It’s a problem with no solution. It’s impossible for Piranha to make their matchmaker do everything their idiot players keep demanding it do, and frankly, I’m sick and clucking tired of Piranha being forced to devote more and more and more resources to matchmaker fiddling because the rest of these jackholes ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept that maybe they lost a match because their opponents were better than they were, and thus come onto the forums here and start whining about the matchmaker. AGAIN.

Enough already. It’s not the damn matchmaker’s fault, Drasari-and-all-those-like-him. It’s YOUR fault, in ninety-five percent of cases. Own up to your own losses and use them as inspiration and impetus to improve, or just give up already.

[Redacted]

[Drasari]

1453 R, on 02 July 2014 - 04:01 PM, said:

Unfortunately Cathy, two-mans are a problem for PGI no matter which way you slice it.

The rabid solo-droppers don’t want to see ANY teams in their queue. They had to be forced to choke down 2-4 drops, and even that generated a tremendous amount of unnecessary hate. I understand where you’re coming from just fine – whenever I’m grouped it’s usually just with my brother down on base in Texas, whom I don’t get to do much with anymore. But the thing is, we’re still a group, and if Piranha cuts 2-man teams from the grouping rules, it manages to both complicate group matchmaking much more than it already is and opens up a whole host of “WELL, I JUST WANT TO PLAY WITH MY TWO BEER BUDDIES! WHY CAN’T I DO THAT IN THE SOLO SCRUB QUEUE?!” threads we really, really could do without.

Unfortunately, The Playerbase, as a whole, has several mutually contradictory requirements – and I use the term ‘requirement’ very deliberately – of the matchmaker. People want to play with groups of friends of any size, they want to be matched fairly according to Elo and weight brackets, they want the MM to take thirty seconds or less to find a match, and they also want to never ever ever ever ever ever EVER EVER EVER see any kind of group ever if they want to drop in the solo queue for any reason. Nor, apparently, do they ever want to drop against any group larger than themselves in the group queue.

It’s a problem with no solution. It’s impossible for Piranha to make their matchmaker do everything their idiot players keep demanding it do, and frankly, I’m sick and clucking tired of Piranha being forced to devote more and more and more resources to matchmaker fiddling because the rest of these jackholes ABSOLUTELY REFUSE to accept that maybe they lost a match because their opponents were better than they were, and thus come onto the forums here and start whining about the matchmaker. AGAIN.

Enough already. It’s not the damn matchmaker’s fault, Drasari-and-all-those-like-him. It’s YOUR fault, in ninety-five percent of cases. Own up to your own losses and use them as inspiration and impetus to improve, or just give up already.

[Redacted]

First I have zero issues with a loss. Tons of games where the team gets out-played.

What does not bother me at all. What does bother me is the 10-12's all in comms that go up against 2/3/4's all in separate comms. Team work is key in this game and that gives a distinct advantage to the larger group.

I wan't teams up against teams of the same number of pre-mades. That's it. When I am in a 2? Same thing. 3? 4? 5+? Same thing. It's all I want. Something like this : http://mwomercs.com/...er-should-work/

[Redacted]

Edited by GM Reppu, 03 July 2014 - 11:47 AM.

[Warblood]

Quote

Ur title is misleading when ppl read that they'll assume you mean 12mans are in the solo drop que when they're not..
the last time we had " 12 Mans Rofl Stomping Pugs Again " was when they were in the solo que. that's why they got their own 12man que..

plz rename ur title to " 2-4grp should not face 12man premades"

QFT

[Mainerd]

Well if you are unhappy create movement to boycott dropping for a week. If the population dips too low I'm sure PGI will do something. Even though I bought the clans I maybe moving on since they can't seem to get things right.

[-Natural Selection-]

Our 6 man +the filled in players rolled the last (2) 10 or 12 mans we faced. Screw it, bring um on. Plus I think MM maybe be evening out some. The matches seem to be getting more balanced. Either way, LOVING the 4+ group sizes.

[Drasari]

Dozier, on 02 July 2014 - 04:22 PM, said:

Our 6 man +the filled in players rolled the last (2) 10 or 12 mans we faced. Screw it, bring um on. Plus I think MM maybe be evening out some. The matches seem to be getting more balanced. Either way, LOVING the 4+ group sizes.

That's awesome. Don't get me wrong I do NOT want to 4+ groups gone or the 10-12's. Just pitted against a more balanced opponent. If one is a 10+2 then the other should be something close to that as well.

[JHackworth]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

Made up half my drops so far. Not that rare. So now if I want to play in a group I MUST get in a larger group to combat this issue.

I would not care if the 10 were against 10 in my group and I was in the two filler, its the random groups slapped together to deal with the 12-10 that I think is broken.

Do you have a screen shot of any of these matches?

[Deathlike]

I hate to say this... but the solo queue is extraordinarily derptastic.

This is my current findings for the solo queue:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__3526137

Technically... if you are a good "solo PUG commander", you can probably rake. Otherwise, deal with it.

I will be doing lots more premade testing tonight.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 July 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Zaggeron]

Roadkill, on 02 July 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

Then why allow small groups in the solo queue at all? Why not just consign them to the group queue and be done with it? Wouldn't that make their Elo ratings even more accurate?

If you're going to allow them in both queues, shouldn't the player get to choose?

My issue is not which queue you put small groups in. My issue is with the player not having a choice in the matter.

If your concern is that allowing small groups in the solo queue leads to inflated Elo ratings, then why allow them into that queue at all?

You need to understand that they can't make it up to the group to decide whether to go solo or group queue. What percentage of 2-4 mans would choose the group queue? They need those groups to fill in the spots of the other groups. If you've got a 7 man group, what are the chances of the MM finding a 5 man group at your Elo at that very moment? The changes are much better if it can also try and match you with a 3 man + 2 man.

Edited by Zaggeron, 02 July 2014 - 04:35 PM.

[1453 R]

[Redacted]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

What does not bother me at all. What does bother me is the 10-12's all in comms that go up against 2/3/4's all in separate comms. Team work is key in this game and that gives a distinct advantage to the larger group.

Guess what, genius? PIRANHA TOLD US THIS WOULD HAPPEN. They said, months ago, when they disabled big-group functionality in the first place, that 12-man groups skewed the curve and there were no good solutions to the problem of the 5-11 group size bracket. They said that, with words, in English. You [redacted] paid no attention and DEMANDED big-group functionality back in the game. And now that you’ve got it, YOU WANT IT GONE AGAIN!

[Redacted]

Drasari, on 02 July 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

I wan't teams up against teams of the same number of pre-mades. That's it. When I am in a 2? Same thing. 3? 4? 5+? Same thing. It's all I want.

Guess what Mk. II? Multiplayer matchmaking doesn’t work like that. You CAN’T force the matchmaker to wait for, and let me break this down for you:

-two groups of exactly equal size…
-in exactly the same weight class configuration of ‘Mechs…
-at the same matchable ELO level…
-to want to jump into a match within thirty seconds of each other.

There. Will. Always. Be. Group. Imbalances. There is not a large enough player base for that level of ****-retentive micromanagement of match variables. [Redacted]

[Redacted]

[Xetelian]

I'm sure they'll get this sorted 'soon'.

[MischiefSC]

It is sorted. Pug queue is the best its ever been. Groups have a group queue. The groups can no longer count on pugs for a steady diet but are in turn part of a larger food chain is the greatest decision pgi has ever made.

[Airic Gryphon]

I think PGI pretty much got it perfect with this update.

I know some people cringe when WOT is brought up in an MWO disscussion, but in this case its kinda relevent. Wargaming did a bunch of testing with group sizes and came to the conclussion that a group of 4+ could have an undue influence on a match where they could drop against solo players. And that was with 15 players per side. It seems reasonable that with 12 per side groups of 3+ players could have too much influence in a match.

PGI even got that right by matching a group in the solo que against another group on the opposing team. The only thing they maybe could do differently is allow a group of 2 to choose to drop in the solo que without the match maker worrying about finding another group of 2 to match them against (if there is one, cool, if not, no biggie).

Other than that PGI nailed it.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

suck it up buttercups. mechwarrior is not for wimps and the MM was always a cruel mistress.