467 replies to this topic

[Draxist]

RampancyTW, on 04 July 2014 - 10:47 AM, said:

Light mechs are extremely hard to deal with if they're piloted by competent players.

Source: competent Jenner pilot.

like I said to you yesterday Ramancy, you are the reason I fear not killing lights on sight

[Too Much Love]

1) A lot of people are playing clans now, and clan's lights are rubbish, so they don't take them.

2) Personally I like lights very much, but now if I don't make 600-700 + dmg my team usually loses, so I take mediums, heavies and assaults.

3) I think 1-3 lights in the team is OK, and most of the time there are at least 1 or 2.

[YueFei]

Sandpit, on 04 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

how about you read the thread and understand what it's for before making statements like that?

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic. The entire topic is how to increase the variety of mechs seen. So your "omg another light pilot wanting something, lights are "OP" agenda isn't valid here. Why don't you post somethign on topic and constructive instead of attacking someone else?

The fact that he thinks Light mechs are overpowered is absurd.

If Light mechs were actually overpowered, we'd have to seen 12 Lights vs 12 Lights in the Tournament matches.

At lower skill levels, where people cannot aim that well, Light mechs seem overwhelming. Mind you, I don't have very good aim, either, but at least I recognize it for what it is.

As people get better and better at aiming, Light mechs die more quickly, and are faaar from being overpowered.

[Goose]

Bryan Ekman, on 04 July 2014 - 09:50 AM, said:

This is our shot term strategy, re-balancing rewards.

Sir: Would this "re-balance" include reducing cap times, and adjusting the power of the sentries? The pre-Skirmish tweaks where meant to appease players whom didn't want to be in them modes in the first place …

[Rampancy]

Draxist, on 04 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

like I said to you yesterday Ramancy, you are the reason I fear not killing lights on sight

Easiest way to kill me is to lure me somewhere with a Firestarter

God I hate those things

[Sandpit]

YueFei, on 04 July 2014 - 10:53 AM, said:

The fact that he thinks Light mechs are overpowered is absurd.

If Light mechs were actually overpowered, we'd have to seen 12 Lights vs 12 Lights in the Tournament matches.

At lower skill levels, where people cannot aim that well, Light mechs seem overwhelming. Mind you, I don't have very good aim, either, but at least I recognize it for what it is.

As people get better and better at aiming, Light mechs die more quickly, and are faaar from being overpowered.

again, this thread isn't about lights being "op", it's about the low % of players using them. That was my entire point.

[Draxist]

RampancyTW, on 04 July 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

Easiest way to kill me is to lure me somewhere with a Firestarter

God I hate those things

the more of those I see around, the more I see them as the 'Atlas' of the lights..... so many guns on such a small frame......

[YueFei]

Sandpit, on 04 July 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

again, this thread isn't about lights being "op", it's about the low % of players using them. That was my entire point.

The low% of players using them might very well be due to the rewards system, since not everyone is sitting on a fat stack of C-bills.

Let's wait til after rewards are re-tuned, and then see how the distribution looks.

[Rampancy]

Draxist, on 04 July 2014 - 11:14 AM, said:

the more of those I see around, the more I see them as the 'Atlas' of the lights..... so many guns on such a small frame......

It's the hitboxes. If I want to hit the CT, somehow every single point of damage hits either side torso. If I want to hit a side torso, every point of damage hits the arm or CT. I hate them. Hate them hate them hate them.

[Sandpit]

YueFei, on 04 July 2014 - 11:23 AM, said:

The low% of players using them might very well be due to the rewards system, since not everyone is sitting on a fat stack of C-bills.

Let's wait til after rewards are re-tuned, and then see how the distribution looks.

???

This isn't a "new" issue. This has been an issue for over a year now. There's no more "wait until". I also don't see how that's a valid statement in regard to the community giving feedback on how to improve this particular issue....

[Yokaiko]

Gorgo7, on 04 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Yes you are wrong.

In so many ways that last paragraph is awful.

Sentence one.-Lights are already VERY agile, Assaults do not need to be less pointy. I have NEVER met an assault that I cannot get around on in a light.

Light mechs are clearly not inferior...they simply are lighter in terms of tonnage. you take a single 80 ton assault with three module slots and I will come at you with 4 locusts and twelve module slots. You die.

Try wrapping your head around that.

Well since damage is really all that matters for payout......yeah


Your entire thing is to FURTHER reduce payout with artillery?

Edited by Yokaiko, 04 July 2014 - 11:41 AM.

[Rampancy]

Yokaiko, on 04 July 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

Well since damage is really all that matters for payout......yeah


Your entire thing is to FURTHER reduce payout with artillery?

I have by far my highest damage/match in Jenners. They're extremely effective combat platforms, as are Firestarters. Spiders and Ravens make for good ECM snipers. The commando and Locust lack a real role, but there's nothing that can really change that, outside of slashing speed capabilities of the other lights and removing ECM from the Spider.

Dedicated spotters already get decent returns from TAG/NARC/UAV, and it looks as though PGI is looking to boost those kinds of rewards.

Drastic changes of any sort are not necessary.

[TheFlannelBeard]

Sandpit, on 04 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

how about you read the thread and understand what it's for before making statements like that?

This has absolutely NOTHING to do with the topic. The entire topic is how to increase the variety of mechs seen. So your "omg another light pilot wanting something, lights are "OP" agenda isn't valid here. Why don't you post somethign on topic and constructive instead of attacking someone else?

Ligthen up and take a joke. I read the post. I also know what it sounded like. hence my post.

[Alistair Winter]

RampancyTW, on 04 July 2014 - 10:29 AM, said:

Dude, any enhancements to light mech combat capability is going to make them ridiculous.
If you want to buff me when I'm Jennering, by all means go ahead, but just remember that you asked for the light mechs of doom when you go crying to the forums about them.

I can't really hear what you're saying while you're pressing your e-peen into my ear.

I'm sure there's a guy out there who does great with a flamer-equipped Locust. That doesn't mean the Locust is fine.

Sandpit, on 04 July 2014 - 10:32 AM, said:

I think most would agree the whole "nerfing" things to make the game easier is getting tiring. There are tons of other options available that don't involve nerfing anything. I'd much rather they investigate those first.
Part of the problem with this game is every time something is added or changed it's immediately called for to nerf it. All that does is continue to water the game down in the eyes of many. If it was the only way to resolve the issue I'd agree but there's plenty of other options

This fear of nerfing seems irrational to me. If you're balancing two factors, the basic way is to buff or nerf. If you take away the nerfing option, you end up with two outcomes.
A) Inflation. If you're just making things more and more deadly, then pretty soon you have matches lasting 15 seconds.
B] Weird quasi-nerfs that don't get to the root of the problem. Like "ECM too powerful? It's now possible to counter ECM by shooting a small, medium and large laser simultaneously, at a teammate within 120 - 140 meters, if you're airborne. Problem solved."

People hate it when PGI nerfs weapons, but if their only way to achieve balance is to keep buffing, then they will also have to buff the amount of internal hitpoints and armor on mechs, to keep up with the weapon inflation. And then adjust fall damage, damage from overheating, damage from crits and.... pretty soon, you have a nice snowball effect.

If you're tuning game balance, it makes no sense to stop nerfing.

Gorgo7, on 04 July 2014 - 10:35 AM, said:

Yes you are wrong.
In so many ways that last paragraph is awful.
Sentence one.-Lights are already VERY agile, Assaults do not need to be less pointy. I have NEVER met an assault that I cannot get around on in a light.
Light mechs are clearly not inferior...they simply are lighter in terms of tonnage. you take a single 80 ton assault with three module slots and I will come at you with 4 locusts and twelve module slots. You die.
Try wrapping your head around that.

There's no need to condescend.

Maybe you're a great light mech pilot, I don't know. I've never heard of you. But on average, I notice that light mech pilots are really having a hard time against heavier mechs. True, that's just the games that I have personally observed. But what mechs do elite players take if they're playing 12-mans and will do anything to win? Jenners?

TheFlannelBeard, on 04 July 2014 - 10:37 AM, said:

What's this? Another light player complaining? Because the actually majority player base thinks lights are overpowered hard to hit weasels who complain and ***** about not being invincible which they nearly are already?
#mysides

I know it's easier to imagine that every MWO player is either a light player or an assault player, but most of the people playing since 2012 have one or two favourite mechs in every weight class. My favourite light mech is the Raven, my favourite medium mech is the Griffin (used to be Centurion), my favourite heavy mech is the Catapult (used to be CTF-3D with dual gauss) and my favourite assault mech is the Victor (used to be Awesome, but I got sick of playing hard mode all the time).

This isn't about me, so there's no need to resort to ad hominem. It's about what's going on for most players in most matches and, more importantly, what's going on in elite level play.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 04 July 2014 - 12:03 PM.

[xMintaka]

6% is a bit much, don't you think?

Just dropped showing 3% lights and 7% mediums.

[Bryan Ekman]

Lunatech, on 04 July 2014 - 12:12 PM, said:

6% is a bit much, don't you think?

Just dropped showing 3% lights and 7% mediums.

To reiterate.. this is not representative of light usage, only the current number of players looking for a match with lights.

[Jon Gotham]

Alistair Winter, on 03 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I appreciate you taking the time to explain, but... I don't think you've actually said anything we didn't know, or anything that isn't brought up in every one of those threads you're referring to.

• Heavy mechs & assault mechs have been more popular for a long time. Yeah, we know. That's one of our complaints. We've been talking about it since early 2013, I think.
  
• The queue doesn't necessarily reflect the superiority of heavy / assault mechs. In theory, you are correct. In reality, however, heavy and assault mechs are indeed superior, so your point is moot.
  
• Taking another light mech means that the enemy will have another light mech. So what? In a game with 3 light mechs, 3 medium mechs, 3 heavy mechs and 3 assault mechs, people aren't picking the assault mech because they want to win. They're picking assault mechs because those are more powerful than the light and medium mechs, so they have a bigger impact on the game. They don't want to pilot the mech that sometimes gets instantly killed for taking a wrong turn, while having a tiny fraction of the firepower everyone else has. They want to play the deadliest mech in the game. All things being equal (pilot skills, teamwork), light mechs aren't as deadly as heavy and assault mechs. Surely you admit that? Unless I'm missing something, MWO competitions aren't won by teams in Commandos and Blackjacks.

I really appreciate the dialogue, but I don't see your point, I'm afraid.

Sadly this is the truth. People take bigger mechs because they want to be in the most powerful things they can so they can get more kills etc and feel good about their playtime.
It was the same in WoT. People shot for the heavy tank because often, it had such a silly advantage it was simply not funny.Most people don't fair, balanced games they want to "own face" and feel good. Heavies and assaults allow them to do that easier.
As long as that's true -you'll never see mediums and lights represented evenly.

[xMintaka]

Bryan Ekman, on 04 July 2014 - 12:21 PM, said:

To reiterate.. this is not representative of light usage, only the current number of players looking for a match with lights.

Of course. But the fact that, out of all the people online at 2100 GMT, only 3% are willing to drop in lights really ought to say something about the state of the game as it is.


Personally I love it. I can run amok in a Jenner and not have to worry about coming across an enemy light lance. Likewise I'm having a field day levelling my remaining two Stormcrow's.

That doesn't mean the game is at all enticing people to play lighter mechs. Especially now the Timber Wolf is here with medium mech speed and heavy firepower/armour. Need to incentivize the lower weight classes, imho.

[Deathlike]

Bryan Ekman, on 04 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Lights take more skill, carry less "stuff", and die more quickly. Along with there not being a ton of specific roles to be played.

We live in a bigger is better world.

And yes we are looking at improving the need and value for lights.

I'll believe it when I see it. I've already discussed buffing UAV rewards before, but that fell on deaf ears.

There's a massive rift between "just another Light pilot" and "elite level Light pilot", that not even tutorials have yet to solve.

There's much MUCH more that has to be done... AND NOT JUST REWARDS to address the issue at hand.

Edited by Deathlike, 04 July 2014 - 12:43 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Just saw 3% light, 6% medium, 64% heavy, and the rest assault.