467 replies to this topic

[The Blood God]

Beliall, on 07 July 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

too much fall dmg again lights will remain inactive.

and the new lights are soooooo sloooooow its like piloting under armored mediums

[Myke Pantera]

As a fan of light mechs i don't see why they are supposed to be bad, just because less people seem to play it. I can think of several reasons why ppl prefer heavies:
* Most iconic mechs are Heavy. Some are assault and medium. None i can think of is light. O wait, there is the UrbanMech. But that one is just an assault head on legs.
* More GUNs is cool on paper.
* They are just quick enough to not seam like turtles (as assaults do).
* More build flexibility.
* You can carry AC's effectively.

So what is the bonus of lights and the reason i like this class more then any other
* Quite obviously you are fast, which is fun to play. And has several side effects
** You choose when and whom you gonna fight
** You are not depending on your team. If you engage with a heavy and the rest of your team backs off, that's it for you.
** You can jump in and dive out wherever you are needed. So i guess it's easier to get assists in lights than in any other class.
* For me the quick responsiveness of the torso is a big plus

I am quite often in the top 4 of my team in terms of damage and barely in the bottom 4, so even damagewise i don't see much of a problem for lights. Sure you won't hit above 600 easily, but we seen many and more players doing it. My personal highest damage is somewhere around 940.

So all in all i don't think lights aren't played because they earn too little C-Bills, because as i've said you are more likely to hit many assists as with other classes. I just think most players like to concentrate on shooting instead of movement, but that is just personal preference. I think they are balanced quite well against other classes. My 2 C-Bills

Edit: All the above counts for IS Lights only. Clan lights are pocket-mediums. You can't scout with them. You can't hit & run with them. They are utility mechs, to help the team, which works well in the ECM Kitfox i think. Not sure about the Adder. Haven't played either.

Edited by Myke Pantera, 07 July 2014 - 07:19 AM.

[Xarian]

Pro tip: the lowest % will often go to extremely low numbers, like 1-3%. Why? Because all of those players just got pulled into a match.

Let's say the queue looks like this:
Light: 6 players (14%)
Medium 11 players
Heavy: 14 players
Assault: 12 players

After starting the match, it now looks like this:
Light: 0 players (0%)
Medium: 5 players
Heavy: 8 players
Assault: 6 players

[ShinVector]

Myke Pantera, on 07 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

So all in all i don't think lights aren't played because they earn too little C-Bills, because as i've said you are more likely to hit many assists as with other classes. I just think most players like to concentrate on shooting instead of movement, but that is just personal preference. I think they are balanced quite well against other classes. My 2 C-Bills

Hmmm... Close quarters combat yields the most Cbills in the shortest time period in MWO. Heavies and assaults that can do big damage in a short amount of time excel at this.
Light can do something similar but it takes more time simply because lights will be energy weapons heavy and DPS is limited by heat. Secondary issues is poor hit detection with lasers.

If you want a money churning match carrying mech.. A ballistics heavy mech is the way to go.
Can be done with lights but a lot harder... Additionally because if you are of decent ELO... MM will offset your light ELO with lousy ELO heavies and assault mech pilots.. Simply how the MM works.

Edited by ShinVector, 07 July 2014 - 07:25 AM.

[xXBagheeraXx]

lockwoodx, on 07 July 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

The fall damage buffs screwed medium brawlers big time. Between that, agile heavies, and insane alphas that sill get tossed around there's really no point to playing mediums period.

Speak for yourself, ive been having more fun in centurions than I ever have...I might actually start grinding them again, and get my third one...

and Blackjacks? FUUUUNNNN

Myke Pantera, on 07 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

As a fan of light mechs i don't see why they are supposed to be bad, just because less people seem to play it. I can think of several reasons why ppl prefer heavies:
* Most iconic mechs are Heavy. Some are assault and medium. None i can think of is light. O wait, there is the UrbanMech. But that one is just an assault head on legs.
* More GUNs is cool on paper.
* They are just quick enough to not seam like turtles (as assaults do).
* More build flexibility.
* You can carry AC's effectively.

So what is the bonus of lights and the reason i like this class more then any other
* Quite obviously you are fast, which is fun to play. And has several side effects
** You choose when and whom you gonna fight
** You are not depending on your team. If you engage with a heavy and the rest of your team backs off, that's it for you.
** You can jump in and dive out wherever you are needed. So i guess it's easier to get assists in lights than in any other class.
* For me the quick responsiveness of the torso is a big plus

I am quite often in the top 4 of my team in terms of damage and barely in the bottom 4, so even damagewise i don't see much of a problem for lights. Sure you won't hit above 600 easily, but we seen many and more players doing it. My personal highest damage is somewhere around 940.

So all in all i don't think lights aren't played because they earn too little C-Bills, because as i've said you are more likely to hit many assists as with other classes. I just think most players like to concentrate on shooting instead of movement, but that is just personal preference. I think they are balanced quite well against other classes. My 2 C-Bills

Edit: All the above counts for IS Lights only. Clan lights are pocket-mediums. You can't scout with them. You can't hit & run with them. They are utility mechs, to help the team, which works well in the ECM Kitfox i think. Not sure about the Adder. Haven't played either.

THANK YOU. Somebody gets it...

Edited by xXBagheeraXx, 07 July 2014 - 07:27 AM.

[Kitane]

So many people here keep mistaking that percentage for an amount of light mechs in the game...

[KingCobra]

To be honest I would have a crapload of light mechs and medium mechs if PGI would give me more free mech bays to use im not going to buy mech bays just for lights or most mediums.

Edited by KingCobra, 07 July 2014 - 07:28 AM.

[ShinVector]

xXBagheeraXx, on 07 July 2014 - 07:27 AM, said:

Speak for yourself, ive been having more fun in centurions than I ever have...I might actually start grinding them again, and get my third one...

and Blacksjacks? FUUUUNNNN

THANK YOU. Somebody gets it...

Trial Poptart Shadowhawk can be a game carrying mech.
Fun to make of Clan mech pilots when you out kill and damage them in that one.. LOL..

[xXBagheeraXx]

WarHawkZero, on 07 July 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

I'm not sure if it has been brought up before in this thread, but what about a simple c-bill based incentive system to nudge players toward balancing the classes. You could simply have a base 125% payout minus whatever the % pop of the class you launch in has at the time.

So for example if the light population is at 5% when you launch, you would get
125%
- 5%
= 120% payout.

Conversely, if you select heavy when the population is at 50% you would get
125%
- 50%
= 75% payout.

This would give players incentive to even things out while not getting c-bill totals too out of control.

Still wouldnt drive light mechs much. Because even with only 75% payout, if im pulling 300k cbill games in my TW prime its still probably going to be as good as, if not better than any game i can pull in a jenner. The power of dakka compells you.

[Tom Sawyer]

I took my Sarah mech out a couple times. Just not worth it anymore. I feel like a chihuahua trying to take down pitbulls.

My chainsaw DD jag and D-DC atlas at least can survive and demolish what ever they face

[Andross Deverow]

Everyone is using Timberwolves now. There are only a few light pilots left in game using light mechs at the moment. This may change after a bit when the light pilots get bored with thier new clan toys and move back to what they used to pilot.

Regards

[BOWMANGR]

Dakshinamurthy, on 04 July 2014 - 04:12 AM, said:

I already explained it earlier in the thread. Because of 3/3/3/3 lights and mediums get sucked into matches quicker, so the %'s seem skewed. Just as many people are playing lights/mediums but since they have no wait time and heavies/assaults do, the %'s of heavies/assaults slowly tick up. That's my hypothesis anyways.

This hypothesis is totally true. Just because Lights & Mediums get into matches quicker, skewing the percentages doesn't mean that people suddenly stopped playing Lights & Mediums.

I usually drop in my Hunchback nowadays because it takes about 4-5 seconds to get into a match plus I know that at least one other Medium mech is in there because of me. If I kill 1 or even 2 mechs I already offered my team a great advantage just by being a Medium in a Heavy world. If I get 3+ kills then it feels like being a hero among others.


I also have to report that I'm seeing enough lights although they did change their tactics for the worse. The old "I get behind you and kill your Rear torso while running with 150kph" tactic is almost abandoned and a new type of light mech pilot has emerged. Those with 2xLarge Lasers who just snipe from afar and then hide behind a hill or something, repeat. I don't really see the appeal to be honest. I never thought that I would say that but I'm starting to miss the occasional jumpy invincible Spider which creates havoc among the enemy team and then disappears. All I can see now are Lights who snipe. Newsflash: There are mechs out there who can do that waaaay better and they are not Lights.

I'm not a Light pilot and I haven't tried piloting one for more than 3 matches since I started playing the game 1.5 year ago but it seems that everyone is saying that taking out the arm from Clan mechs is a viable tactic. Well, who is better at taking out arms than backstabbing rear side torso killer Lights? I don't know. It seems a logical role for the Lights to spot and harass and maybe create a few crippled mechs here and there {legs or side torsos}.

[Lostdragon]

Myke Pantera, on 07 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

As a fan of light mechs i don't see why they are supposed to be bad, just because less people seem to play it. I can think of several reasons why ppl prefer heavies:
* Most iconic mechs are Heavy. Some are assault and medium. None i can think of is light. O wait, there is the UrbanMech. But that one is just an assault head on legs.
* More GUNs is cool on paper.
* They are just quick enough to not seam like turtles (as assaults do).
* More build flexibility.
* You can carry AC's effectively.

So what is the bonus of lights and the reason i like this class more then any other
* Quite obviously you are fast, which is fun to play. And has several side effects
** You choose when and whom you gonna fight
** You are not depending on your team. If you engage with a heavy and the rest of your team backs off, that's it for you.
** You can jump in and dive out wherever you are needed. So i guess it's easier to get assists in lights than in any other class.
* For me the quick responsiveness of the torso is a big plus

I am quite often in the top 4 of my team in terms of damage and barely in the bottom 4, so even damagewise i don't see much of a problem for lights. Sure you won't hit above 600 easily, but we seen many and more players doing it. My personal highest damage is somewhere around 940.

So all in all i don't think lights aren't played because they earn too little C-Bills, because as i've said you are more likely to hit many assists as with other classes. I just think most players like to concentrate on shooting instead of movement, but that is just personal preference. I think they are balanced quite well against other classes. My 2 C-Bills

Edit: All the above counts for IS Lights only. Clan lights are pocket-mediums. You can't scout with them. You can't hit & run with them. They are utility mechs, to help the team, which works well in the ECM Kitfox i think. Not sure about the Adder. Haven't played either.

This is all anecdotal and neither I nor anyone besides PGI has hard evidence to back up these claims, so take this with a grain of salt.

To me, lights are really fun until you start playing against people that are really good shots. I have no way of knowing this for sure, but I feel like my ELO in lights is on the high side of average. I feel like have become pretty good at identifying skilled pilots because that is one of the things that keeps you alive in a light.

When I am playing with/against a team of about the same skill level as me I can play lights pretty aggressively and do well. When I am in a group with new players or players that are not as good as me (yet) then playing a light becomes much easier and I can be even more aggressive. I can rip people apart because they don't know how to deal with advanced tactics and they can't aim well enough to be a real threat. When I play with someone who is much better than me and we end up in a higher ELO bracket than I am used to the opposite happens. I start dying early with little damage until I adjust and tone down my aggressiveness. Those guys who are really good shots also have the experience to counter lights and know which mechs to put on the lights and which mechs should ignore lights.

I said all that to say this. When I can play lights fast and aggressive I really enjoy them. When I play against better players than I normally face then I really have to step up my game and adjust my tactics or die horribly. Moving up the ELO brackets in lights can be really frustrating because you may have to adjust your tactics in order to be successful and that may not be as much fun. I like to be able to play aggressively with lights but when I find myself in matches against players who win tournaments I know that style of play is not going to work, that I have to be more conservative and mind my Ps and Qs or I will die horribly. And honestly, that just isn't as fun to me.

Among other reasons, I think this is one of the factors that make lights less popular. Obviously tactics for all weights change and evolve as you get better and face better players, but to me the change is very drastic with lights and requires you to think about how you play in a completely different way. The challenge is fun sometimes, but other times I just want to zoom around and not worry so much about getting one shot or FF'ed down in two seconds if I make a mistake.

[Failcube]

This is a problem for me since I can't adequately play lights/mediums.

Role warfare is lacking since the game awards primarily on damage dealt, not fulfilling team needs with ECM/Scouting/Tagging,etc.

It's all about more armor, more guns, more points, etc.

[Spleenslitta]

May i ask everyone a few questions? How much damage do you think an average light mech user does per match?
I'm thinking 35 tonners here.
How much does an average assault mech do in comparison?

Why not experiment with light mech tactics till you come to a new set of meta tactics? I got a set of tactics that could be a candidate for new meta if your interrested.
I can put it up if you want me to....just say the word. Send me a PM preferably so i don't have read this entire thread looking for your requests.

How much do you think is the limit for a light mech? I've done +900 damage on rare occasions. Rare occasions!
But that doesn't mean i caught lots of AFK mechs mind you.

What i'm trying to say is that it is possible to do as much damage as an assault mech with a light. Do i say that my skills are superior?
NO. Definitivly not. I'm not much above average skillwise but i use unorthodox tactics. Mech loadout matters suprisingly little except for ammunition limitations.
My skill did not get this number....fast decisionmaking is key to surviving throughout the entire match in order to do all this damage.

I believe a light mech player with supreme skills on top of these tactics will be able to pass the 1300 damage mark.
Maybe even 1500, although that would require a very hot or short range build i think.

I don't think light mech players need much maneuvering skill to do this much damage.
You only need fast decision making skills, these tactics, discipline, speed and a loadout capable of striking whenever an opportunity presents itself.

[Vassago Rain]

You can buff income and role powers all you want, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

Why?

Because the fattest raven possible will still get side torso'd by a single modern alpha. The lighter you go, the easier it is to kill them. No one wants to play a class that gets consistently one-shotted.

[Hellcat420]

Spleenslitta, on 07 July 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

May i ask everyone a few questions? How much damage do you think an average light mech user does per match?
I'm thinking 35 tonners here.
How much does an average assault mech do in comparison?

Why not experiment with light mech tactics till you come to a new set of meta tactics? I got a set of tactics that could be a candidate for new meta if your interrested.
I can put it up if you want me to....just say the word. Send me a PM preferably so i don't have read this entire thread looking for your requests.

How much do you think is the limit for a light mech? I've done +900 damage on rare occasions. Rare occasions!
But that doesn't mean i caught lots of AFK mechs mind you.

What i'm trying to say is that it is possible to do as much damage as an assault mech with a light. Do i say that my skills are superior?
NO. Definitivly not. I'm not much above average skillwise but i use unorthodox tactics. Mech loadout matters suprisingly little except for ammunition limitations.
My skill did not get this number....fast decisionmaking is key to surviving throughout the entire match in order to do all this damage.

I believe a light mech player with supreme skills on top of these tactics will be able to pass the 1300 damage mark.
Maybe even 1500, although that would require a very hot or short range build i think.

I don't think light mech players need much maneuvering skill to do this much damage.
You only need fast decision making skills, these tactics, discipline, speed and a loadout capable of striking whenever an opportunity presents itself.

doing lots of damage does not make light mechs fun to pilot

[MeiSooHaityu]

In a way, I have been having a bit more luck with Lights as of late (especially the ECM Raven 3L).

I have the raven outfitted with 1 ERLLaser, 2 MLasers, 1 SRM4.

I snipe at the beginning of the match. The mech can dart in and out of cover normally well enough to mitigate any real serious damage. Very rarely have I been seriously damaged from an Alpha.

Once the teams start to mix it up a bit, wait for an enemy mech to engage one of the bigger mechs on my team. WHen this happens, move in behind him and start wailing on his back armor with everything. Rinse and repeat.

Most of the time, the enemy will stay focused on the bigger mechs of your team and avoid you (the ankle bighter). Thing is, doesn't matter how small you are, 1ERLLaser, 2MLasers, and an SRM4 repeatedly to the rear armor is a big problem.

I think being that little mech and running in early in a match weaving in and out of the enemy tends to be pretty dangerous. I think many pilots do that thinking that is how mechs are piloted, they die, and then think lights are useless.

To me, as a light pilot, you need to be the shadow and not the "look at me!" pilot. Let your team agro, and you slip in from behind in the shadows and stab your enemy in the back.

P.S. Much easier to do with ECM (hence why I use the Raven 3L so much), but if you do it right, any light mech can still do the job it seems (even the Locust 3M, but man is it tough).

[Spleenslitta]

Vassago Rain, on 07 July 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

I think being that little mech and running in early in a match weaving in and out of the enemy tends to be pretty dangerous. I think many pilots do that thinking that is how mechs are piloted, they die, and then think lights are useless.

To me, as a light pilot, you need to be the shadow and not the "look at me!" pilot. Let your team agro, and you slip in from behind in the shadows and stab your enemy in the back.

This guy has the right idea.

Hellcat420, on 07 July 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

doing lots of damage does not make light mechs fun to pilot

I enjoy my lights much more than any of the other weight classes i've tried.
I survive longer too.

Vassago Rain, on 07 July 2014 - 08:13 AM, said:

You can buff income and role powers all you want, but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter.

Why?

Because the fattest raven possible will still get side torso'd by a single modern alpha. The lighter you go, the easier it is to kill them. No one wants to play a class that gets consistently one-shotted.

Stay out of line of sight. Stay on the enemies flanks or rearterritory.
Get out of cover- shoot once or twice - get back into cover- relocate at least 300 meters to get the enemy from another angle. Repeat.

Don't hit the same target over and over again. That gets his attention.

Do not join your teammates on the firingline. That will get you the same amount of attention as your teammates.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 07 July 2014 - 08:41 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Spleenslitta, on 07 July 2014 - 08:08 AM, said:

May i ask everyone a few questions? How much damage do you think an average light mech user does per match?
I'm thinking 35 tonners here.
How much does an average assault mech do in comparison?

Why not experiment with light mech tactics till you come to a new set of meta tactics? I got a set of tactics that could be a candidate for new meta if your interrested.
I can put it up if you want me to....just say the word. Send me a PM preferably so i don't have read this entire thread looking for your requests.

How much do you think is the limit for a light mech? I've done +900 damage on rare occasions. Rare occasions!
But that doesn't mean i caught lots of AFK mechs mind you.

What i'm trying to say is that it is possible to do as much damage as an assault mech with a light. Do i say that my skills are superior?
NO. Definitivly not. I'm not much above average skillwise but i use unorthodox tactics. Mech loadout matters suprisingly little except for ammunition limitations.
My skill did not get this number....fast decisionmaking is key to surviving throughout the entire match in order to do all this damage.

I believe a light mech player with supreme skills on top of these tactics will be able to pass the 1300 damage mark.
Maybe even 1500, although that would require a very hot or short range build i think.

I don't think light mech players need much maneuvering skill to do this much damage.
You only need fast decision making skills, these tactics, discipline, speed and a loadout capable of striking whenever an opportunity presents itself.

To me 500 damage in a light is a very good game. Getting that requires a good bit of skill. Getting 600+ in a light is along the same lines as getting 1000+ in an assault or heavy. I don't like to play sniper lights, though, I'm more a knife fighter, so my opinions are based on that.

I also disagree with you on how much skill and piloting play in to doing well with lights. Being able to make good decisions quickly IS THE SKILL that makes or breaks light pilots in my opinion. If you know and understand the OODA loop it makes you a more effective pilot no matter what you are driving.

Based on my observations of lots of players I would guess that my gunnery skills are average, at best, but my piloting skill is above average. Lots of people are better at holding medium lasers on target than me, but I realized my weakness and use my strength in piloting to line up shots that are easy to make while giving the enemy little chance to return fire.