160 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Too many people think Clan's are OP because they out DPS and out range IS mechs. People try to stop and trade shots with them and get obliterated. I know, because once in a while I think I am unseen and can get away with it then just get slammed with huge alphas and curse myself for not knowing better. Use mobility and torso twisting and cover and you will be fine. Recognize their advantages, and do what you can to curb them, and if possible play to your own advantages, such as snap shot ACs, PPCs that couldn't melt the One Ring, short duration lasers (has anyone used IS pulse lasers after running clan ER lasers?? zOMG the difference!), and even better lurms, though I hate to ever advocate their use....

[Sahoj]

Clanner firepower benefits seem to grade on a curve in accordance to their XL engines in my experience.

At Light/Medium weight classes the Clan XL may be less a benefit: In comparison an IS Light can pack on speed for their defense with an XL and an IS Medium can boast capable firepower and speed with a STD engine (Approx 80kph).

At Heavy/Assault the Clan XL begins to shine. An IS Heavy/Assault has to choose between becoming a glass cannon or barely faster than a turret. Being a step faster than a turret doesn't always seem so bad - Dire Wolves are slow rivals.

Last - Clanners do not seem to offer high mount pinpoint damage weapon mounts. I know that in my HBK I am often firing on Clan Mechs over low rises and not suffering any damage in return. Bring your Hunchbacks, Jagermechs, Blackjacks and Stalkers please.

[Willard Phule]

ThatDawg, on 07 July 2014 - 06:36 AM, said:

I'm thinking those clan mechs, now maxed/elited out are really quite the show. I try and see who is last man standing with the most damage/kills, lately its been clan mechs, and ecm lights of any flavor

agreed, PGI could fix the pugstomp by simply using an existing algorithm match maker

I see PGI dropping solo, but I do wonder how many have fake accounts to avoid the attention of having a tag that indicates you are one of the problems, not one of the solutions.

I only got the Timberwolf alacarte, myself. And I resisted doing that for a long time...then I caved. I've had mine mastered for a couple of weeks now.

Funny thing is....I gave up on doing the LRM thing back when I started dumping half my ammo into the scenery because the lock it told me I had was really the microwave telling my my burrito was cooked.

So, I went to a TTK laser build....not the TimberTart crap. And I'm doing MUCH better with CERLLs and CERMLs than I ever did with CLRMs. If they ever get rid of the minimum range, I may go back just to see how it works, but I'm really digging the lasers.

And, you're probably right. They must have secondary accounts. Because, let's face it, if anyone...ANYONE...dropped into the PUG queue as a solo with the "PGI" logo (not the IGP one), they'd die fast. In fact, I doubt they'd make it out of spawn.

[BARBAR0SSA]

IS lights are great, bring either UAV for LRMS, Radar Dep, Arty etc etc. IF you have a team with LRMS that helps greatly.

Advanced targeting info module as well is great, get info on the mechs and what's damaged much sooner, I saw this on a DW, and MG'ed his 2 crippled Side torsos instead of going for CT that still had armour on it.

IS PPCs do more pinpoint for less heat as well.

Your best friend however is knowing what mounting points they have, or seeing where they have things mounted.

If they are carrying dual ERPPCs, you can be sure that they will more than likely overheat if they panic fire, so take your time. Most of them tend to run hotter than IS as well.

Great example was me in an ember vs an adder that had 4 LL and 2 SL on tourmaline. After he fired off a bunch of shots with me running in circles, he had to pace himself and shut down twice which let me blow his legs off, I got sloppy and lost 1 of my legs in the fight. If i was smart I would have blown the arms off him.

[Dano_man]

I disagree with the statement if clan mechs outrun you you need a bigger engine. I like my mediums and lights, the Blackjack however while in my view a very versatile mech can only do 93kph speed tweaked with the biggest engine it can take.(I know their is one that can put a bigger engine in) so that means that almost every clanner can outrun him except the assualt. I have however been using my lights to great effect. 2 ERLL and speed 140plus. Scout them out, get behind them where you can. Hit them from cover in the legs first or a nice juicy red section and then move again. Only problem is when my teammates yell that I need to stay with them for the ECM. Right tried that and usually get killed pretty quick as you have to be close to the brawl and in a spider or raven that's a no no. I prefer to scout them out and then hit them while they are engaged. It works well in a more coordinated group.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Fast Medium ASRM Boats, preferably with JJs. Centurions, Wolverines, Shawks, all do good work. Use terrain like a paranoid agoraphobe until you get close, then pounce and wreck them. If you can, get around behind the Clan Assaults and take them out in 2-3 volleys; they're slow enough that once you get behind them you've pretty much got the kill secured.

[Bishop Steiner]

Willard Phule, on 07 July 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

I still think it's more accurate to say:

"Free to play, pay to have a temporary advantage"

This isn't the first time this has happened. Think about every single time they released a new 'mech. First it came out as a Hero/Champion for MC, then the base chassis was released for cbills (you still have to pay MC for the champion/hero version). Victors in general, and the Dragon Slayer specifically, are a GREAT example of this.

And, oddly enough, that's EXACTLY what we're seeing here with the Omnis. One version, the Prime, is a Champion mech...the other two variants, well, to be completely honest with you...they're parts. Sure, if you have all the omnipods for that specific variant, you get a bonus 7.5% on your cbills and xp. But, why would you even bother with 7.5% when you can get 80%? 50% for Premium Time + 30% Champion bonus adds up fast. Kind of like what everyone is doing with the CTF-3D( C ).

still waiting to receive my temporary advantage. Or did you have to Order a Gold Mech for that?

[Bishop Steiner]

KingCobra, on 07 July 2014 - 06:37 AM, said:

I find clan mechs a fun challenge to kill on most of my IS assaults and Heavy's they don't Overpower me but mediums and lights yes they do outgun me.But the biggest reason there kind of OP to IS mechs is they must have very small hit-boxes and 4x armor defensive capability than my IS mechs my IS mechs armor is like butter and the my IS hitboxes are huge so IS mechsare inferior.

So hit and run use cover and try not to get into a 1v1 even a timber wolf can kill my atlas if he is lucky and I have a 80+ alpha shot which he just shrugs off and laughs at.PGI needs to make all the IS mechs better as far as making the hitboxes smaller and armor more to balance the clan mechs.

Or OP hunt in a pack get a wing to drop with into battles 2v1 they=clan cant win as easy.

stop staring at them princess.

Learn to twist, and you armor will magically exceed the Clans as they mount mostly DoT weapons, and have average htiboxes at best.

Any decent pilot in a Centy, Firestarter, Any PHX mech but the Locust, Victor, Highlander, etc has far better hitboxes than the clans.

But hey, what do I know, I'm full of crap, and yet...seem to have no reason to whine using my IS mechs.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kitane, on 07 July 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

Great for IS poptarts with PPC/AC combos, not so great advantage for other IS builds...

I don't run poptarts. I run moderate fast, usually jumpy, brawlers. Unless I get myself focused, seldom have issues.

In fact, the two builds I posted for the OP are not even terribly fast, and neither jump, yet 1v1, because of FLD and twisting, and generally superior arm reflex, (thought the Jager cannot claim that) I generally take Clanners apart. When I lose, it's usually for the same reasons I lose a match vs IS mechs, better pilot, mistake on my part, focused fire, already damaged badly, etc.

Though I would not complain seeing a few tweaks to clan weapons, in a few areas (give the Gauss something that is not as good as the IS version, be it cooldown, longer charge up or less range, etc, since for instance it is straight superior to the IS version. But that is a pretty rare example).

But I will tell you now, I would KILL to be able to mount IS AC's and Pulse Laser on my Mechs, as the FLD and much shorter burns for the lasers are HUGE for in your face twist and shout fighting.

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 July 2014 - 08:28 AM, said:

Too many people think Clan's are OP because they out DPS and out range IS mechs. People try to stop and trade shots with them and get obliterated. I know, because once in a while I think I am unseen and can get away with it then just get slammed with huge alphas and curse myself for not knowing better. Use mobility and torso twisting and cover and you will be fine. Recognize their advantages, and do what you can to curb them, and if possible play to your own advantages, such as snap shot ACs, PPCs that couldn't melt the One Ring, short duration lasers (has anyone used IS pulse lasers after running clan ER lasers?? zOMG the difference!), and even better lurms, though I hate to ever advocate their use....

Dude, how about IS Pulse Lasers after running C-Pulse? Yeah the IS range sucks, but for brawling, that heat/damage/duration ratio is great. My YLW would cry if forced to use C-MPL, and so would my La Wubinche over C-LPL. I took La Wubinche 1v1 at close range against several Dakka-Wolves last night, and between the mobility and hitboxes, won almost every match up, despite being massively outgunned, and running a "dangerous" XL.

But when you can twist and shout, and are pushing 70 in a fully armored 95 tonner with good arm reflex, great hitboxes and 3 LPL and an AC10? You can seriously hurt some Clan Mechs. Shame the rest of the banshees tend to have mobility in line with the DWhale, but considering the firepower they can mount, I get it.

[Foxwalker]

Seen a lot of these posts. It is too bad that those that did not yet get the Clan stuff have to wait to experience the field from both sides. I have found that I die in about the same amount of time if not working with a team, no matter if it is IS or Clan.

Taking out my IS mechs, recently, they worked reasonalbly well against Clans, especially the AC/20 BJ-1. Teammates with D-DCs, Victors and other IS mechs are also doing pretty well and usually still topping the Damage and kill stats in most matches I am in.

[Elyam]

As I began facing MWO's iteration of Battletech's clans, the first factor was the psychological intimidation - that is, before I took a breath and completed a patient analysis of what I was seeing. Most of my early exposure came not so much from being on the receiving end of clanner damage, but from viewing the spectator camera after death, observing teammates piloting clan chassis. My first clan mech spectation was of a devastating DireWolf utilizing 2 ER LLAS, 6 ER MLAS, 2 LRM-15, and 2 U-A/C-5. While I knew what was possible with clantech after living through decades on tabletop (including the coming of the clans), the mystery here were the multiple shells spewing from the ultras and the odd presentation and speed of LRM fire. This early, I couldn't tell if the constant dakka was a modification of standard fire or of ultra fire, nor if the LRM spectacle had mechanical properties as different as the visuals. That pilot eviscerated nearly 1300 damage from our foes in that match, though he had some errors in general execution. It made me confront this early evolving perception with skepticism.

There is a psychological advantage in Clan weaponry upon the uninitiated, experienced not only in the volume of AC spewage but in the glowing spectacle and speed of their LRM fire and in SRM volleys that sound like howitzers. Add to that the war horns. Together with knowledge of their many mechanical advantages, a lot of pilots staying in IS mechs are going to feel outmatched even before facing the enemy directly. As it did for me, the spectator view can exaggerate this effect. And it is appropriate to the clan Nietzschean being - the need to express extant superiority. But fortunately in MWO, it is not the overwhelming bundle of advantage it at first seems to be.

Most of us know, there are consistently successful builds that just click - some that are good for nearly anyone and others that synergize with certain types of pilots. Builds that aren't all about sheer firepower, but that let you deliver results over and again due to some 'perfect' combination of weapons, heat dissipation, mech quirks, electronic warfare advantage, mobility,etc.. Those are the builds that remain effective even in competition with clantech. And it's those builds that we have to stick with. As others have said, design questions must be answered by experience: will your build take down multiple top-end enemies of the caliber of a finely-tuned MadCat? Does your build at least bring to the match a capability for your weight class that an optimized clan chassis does at the cap of that class? If the answer is 'no', and especially if 'no way bub', then you need to think twice before taking it.

The coming of clantech makes us more than ever walk away from unrefined IS builds. It makes us defend better. Makes us face our poor tactical choices. IS mechs and companies can indeed stand toe to toe against clantech. We have some advantages that people here are reviewing. But only our best builds can manage it, and poor tactical choices die in the face of it. It causes us to be on our toes again.

This weekend after 3 matches I began thinking that I would move away from MWO for a few months until the Clan mechs became earnable with C-bills. After 6 matches I changed my mind and started accepting the challenge to make it work with IS tech. And work it does, once you know the score.

Edited by Elyam, 07 July 2014 - 09:39 AM.

[Pjwned]

Kitane, on 07 July 2014 - 07:54 AM, said:

Clan lights and Dire Whale are slow.

Clan heavies and mediums are definitely not slow by IS standards, they can keep up with or even outrun majority of typical medium/heavy IS builds.

Wow, that's a good point, I didn't realize the stormcrow, timberwolf, and summoner went that fast.

[CygnusX7]

pssst... Shadowhawk 2H with 2-AC5's, 1-AC2 and a mL. 2JJ's, XL235 a DHS and as much ammo as you can carry.
With Adv Zoom almost every match is a shooting gallery.

[Pjwned]

MischiefSC, on 07 July 2014 - 03:31 AM, said:

This. Hunchies are small and unobtrusive. Alone people will jump all up in one. You see one back and a bit behind a Timber Wolf, Atlas or other face-eater and you'll pencil him in down the list some. You're up on a hill with 2 PPCs in your Cicada and you see the backs of a TWolf, Hunchie and a Dire Wolf it's no hard guess who he pops in the back. No way of knowing if that Hunchie is a nutbar with an XL or smarty with a standard and the CT is narrow at range and from behind.

You ride shotgun for someone who's going to draw a lot of fire. Then you lean out and give them a rude, painful surprise. At which time they remember a tad too late just what a stupid mount of grief you can stuff in a Hunchie on almost any chassis. Armor up front, quick enough to to nip around your wing leader and WHAM.

BJs can't take a hit and Shawks draw fire - they get mistaken for Summoners, Banshees, etc. at range. Tall, lanky and menacing pokey bits. People give a Hunchie a pass when it's in meaner looking company. It's a bad mistake. The KDR on my AC20 Hunchie is better than any of my other mediums - specifically for this reason. Play quiet, play back, ride shotgun and wait for a good driveby.

I found this to be the case with the Trebuchet-7K as well actually, people don't expect a powerhouse going 100 KPH with SRMs, lasers, and an LB-X 10 on a Trebuchet and then they find their face melted if they get too close. I've had a number of matches with some really superb damage with a build like that and I think part of it was people thinking "oh it's just a Trebuchet who cares," although I haven't really used it as much lately.

Edited by Pjwned, 07 July 2014 - 09:53 AM.

[Scratx]

Willard Phule, on 07 July 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Which is kind of funny, considering. When was the last time you saw a PGI guy in the public queue as a SOLO DROPPER? I can't say I've ever seen it. I've seen them drop in groups into the PUG queue...and get their asses handed to them on a plastic spoon...but never solo. Perhaps they should try it out and see what we've been screaming about for so long.

I've spotted PGI'ers solo, now and then. Found one quite recently, just a few days ago. May've been Niko, but can't be sure. Also spot the odd IGP'er too.

[JP Josh]

there's always the 7 ppc awesome build i love........... be warned though you only get 1 or 3 alphas before you self destruct

[Bishop Steiner]

Willard Phule, on 07 July 2014 - 04:14 AM, said:

Which is kind of funny, considering. When was the last time you saw a PGI guy in the public queue as a SOLO DROPPER? I can't say I've ever seen it. I've seen them drop in groups into the PUG queue...and get their asses handed to them on a plastic spoon...but never solo. Perhaps they should try it out and see what we've been screaming about for so long.

actually, I have never come across PGI/IGP tagged players any other way BUT solo drops. And I would say I ee 2-3 a week. Niko was on quite sometime last night, though I didn't run into him.

[Devlin Pierce]

One thing to remember is clan lasers take much longer to deal out their full damage compared to the inner sphere. Use this to spread their damage by twisting as much as you can, never let them pinpoint the entire beam on a location.

[Willard Phule]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 July 2014 - 08:59 AM, said:

still waiting to receive my temporary advantage. Or did you have to Order a Gold Mech for that?

Nah, I really...REALLY...resisted the urge to buy any Clan mechs at first. I mean, giving PGI money for any reason is enough to turn my stomach. But...I missed my Timberwolf from the other MW games and caved, so I got one ala-carte.

It is a bit of an advantage, if only because everything weighs less...it gives you a little more flexibility to slap together a decent "all pupose" mech. I'm rolling in a TBR-P with 2 x CERLLs, 4 x CERMLS, 1 JJ and a TC4. That targeting computer makes ALL the difference. Components flying around everywhere.

But...I'll be honest with you...I was doing pretty much the same thing in my CTF-3D with 2 x LBX10 and 4 MLs. It's just slower, I guess.

Devlin Pierce, on 07 July 2014 - 10:44 AM, said:

One thing to remember is clan lasers take much longer to deal out their full damage compared to the inner sphere. Use this to spread their damage by twisting as much as you can, never let them pinpoint the entire beam on a location.

AH! This right here!

You don't drop solo often, do you? In the solo PUG queue, you don't turn your torso to avoid damage....you stand in the open, zoom in, shoot your teammates in the back OR dump your LRMs into a hillside.....then, after their entire team dismantles you, you whine about clan mechs being OP.

I'm not sure, but I think there might actually be an achievement for that. It would explain why it happens every game in the PUG queue.