147 replies to this topic

[Torgun]

Wintersdark, on 09 July 2014 - 08:10 AM, said:

Seriously. The prices are reasonable. Yes, you can't share an engine around - I'm unsurprised we don't get a discount rate on the engines for that, but really... Clan mechs pay a flat-rate for XL engines unlike tabletop so the big mechs won't be absurdly expensive, and as it stands the light mechs are actually cheaper than IS mechs once upgraded.

Sure, you can run budget clan builds the same way. Boo hoo. And yes, IS mechs - particularly the heavies and assaults - can run much cheaper standard engines... That weigh vastly more.

PGI isn't being the pocket gouging devil here, lads. The prices are entirely reasonable compared to the IS mechs and current pricing in the game.

There's nothing to cry about here.

The Kit fox with no bonus whatsoever cost about the same as the Firestarter with 30% CBill bonus.

I rest my case.

[Bront]

So, no need to upgrade armor, structure, heat sinks, or engine. Yeah, seems about right.

Given the estimate though, it sounds like the Timberwolf may end up being among most expensive mechs due to the engine (XL375 vs XL300), though that's only 1.2 million, so weapons and other factors may trump that slightly.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Torgun, on 09 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

The Kit fox with no bonus whatsoever cost about the same as the Firestarter with 30% CBill bonus.

I rest my case.

Most pilots do not run the Ember with the stock loadout...standard engine at 97kph and flamers?...yeah, good luck with that. Upgrading to an XL295 alone to achieve top speed runs 4.8 million C-bills, which is equivalent to 1,920 MC, so that makes the Ember run closer to 4,500 MC if you could spend MC to upgrade it.

[Wintersdark]

Torgun, on 09 July 2014 - 08:19 AM, said:

The Kit fox with no bonus whatsoever cost about the same as the Firestarter with 30% CBill bonus.

I rest my case.

The firestarter that's not available for cbills at all?

Silly monkey, this thread is about cbill prices.

[Torgun]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 09 July 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Most pilots do not run the Ember with the stock loadout...standard engine at 97kph and flamers?...yeah, good luck with that. Upgrading to an XL295 alone to achieve top speed runs 4.8 million C-bills, which is equivalent to 1,920 MC, so that makes the Ember run closer to 4,500 MC if you could spend MC to upgrade it.

The Ember is still in stock config clearly better value than a Kitfox would be for the same money, since you can't outfit the Kit Fox with 30% CBill bonus. Which simply suggests the Kit Fox is clearly over-priced. Don' take my word for it, they actually tossed it up for a 15% off sale on a Wednesday, which suggests they know they messed up the prices since they're not selling any.

Wintersdark, on 09 July 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

The firestarter that's not available for cbills at all?

Silly monkey, this thread is about cbill prices.

They use their formula to translate mechs CBill to MC prices, which means they're over-priced for CBills too.

Edited by Torgun, 09 July 2014 - 09:31 AM.

[TLBFestus]

What I read;

"Hey there suckers!! We are making clan mechs available to you for c-bills, but seeing as how they use our "New, Better Pixels" we are going to just make it more tempting to spend cash on it. Keep up the good work and we promise to make something, anything that isn't for sale, like maps, CW, game improvements, etc., real soon!!".

[Shredhead]

So, we'll be talking 16 million CBills + 8x Omnipods + weapons/JJ for a Mad Cat (16 mil already have 5 fixed DHS, 375 XL and costs for Endo/Ferro in it). That should be roughly 20 million CBills per variant. So now here's your saving goal for the best mech in this game. You have time until December.

TLBFestus, on 09 July 2014 - 09:31 AM, said:

What I read;

"Hey there suckers!! We are making clan mechs available to you for c-bills, but seeing as how they use our "New, Better Pixels" we are going to just make it more tempting to spend cash on it. Keep up the good work and we promise to make something, anything that isn't for sale, like maps, CW, game improvements, etc., real soon!!".

They are in line with pricing for IS mechs + equip, so what are you bitchin' about? Imho they should be even more expensive to account for the better survivability of clan engines.
Also the weapons still need quite a tweaking to bring them in line with IS weapons.

Edited by Shredhead, 09 July 2014 - 09:37 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Torgun, on 09 July 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

The Ember is still in stock config clearly better value than a Kitfox would be for the same money, since you can't outfit the Kit Fox with 30% CBill bonus. Which simply suggests the Kit Fox is clearly over-priced. Don' take my word for it, they actually tossed it up for a 15% off sale on a Wednesday, which suggests they know they messed up the prices since they're not selling any.

They often do little presales with MC before posting a mech for cbills.

Quote

They use their formula to translate mechs CBill to MC prices, which means they're over-priced for CBills too.

Oh good lord, Torgun. You've been here long enough to no better.

Hero mechs are priced in MC by tonnage, not cost. Its... 75mc/ton? I forget and am too lazy to look, but its by tonnage.

We're just talking cbill prices anyways. Arguing the KF is too expensive in MC is another argument entirely.

In terms of cbills, an upgraded (thus: stock) non-hero Kitfox is still comparable to or cheaper than an upgraded non-hero Firestarter.

[Torgun]

Wintersdark, on 09 July 2014 - 09:35 AM, said:

They often do little presales with MC before posting a mech for cbills.



Oh good lord, Torgun. You've been here long enough to no better.

Hero mechs are priced in MC by tonnage, not cost. Its... 75mc/ton? I forget and am too lazy to look, but its by tonnage.

We're just talking cbill prices anyways. Arguing the KF is too expensive in MC is another argument entirely.

In terms of cbills, an upgraded (thus: stock) non-hero Kitfox is still comparable to or cheaper than an upgraded non-hero Firestarter.

So? I see one 30t mech has a lot more value than the other, that's still true whatever formula they use. Anyone buying a Kit Fox for the same money as the Firestarter is just setting themselves up for getting ripped off.

Calling the Kit Fox stock upgraded is hardly the truth. And you know that to elite the darn mech you have to buy 3, so 3 expensive XL engines is a must as they are not removable and interchangable like on a Firestarter or any IS mech for that matter. And then we haven't even gone into expensive clan gear. Over-priced is over-priced.

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Torgun, on 09 July 2014 - 09:30 AM, said:

The Ember is still in stock config clearly better value than a Kitfox would be for the same money, since you can't outfit the Kit Fox with 30% CBill bonus. Which simply suggests the Kit Fox is clearly over-priced. Don' take my word for it, they actually tossed it up for a 15% off sale on a Wednesday, which suggests they know they messed up the prices since they're not selling any.

The Kit Fox has ECM...that's worth a lot to a small mech that wants to stay out of sight. The Firestarter's only hope is to ramp up its speed with the XL 295.

[Torgun]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 09 July 2014 - 09:41 AM, said:

The Kit Fox has ECM...that's worth a lot to a small mech that wants to stay out of sight. The Firestarter's only hope is to ramp up its speed with the XL 295.

The 30% CBill bonus trumps ECM by a landslide for most players, since they don't have a couple billion CBills in this harsh economy.

[xeromynd]

Something I'm not seeing in the pricing breakdown: CASE.

Every clan mech component that mounts ammo technically has CASE too. If you're including XL Engines in the cost, why not case also?

[Torgun]

xeromynd, on 09 July 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

Something I'm not seeing in the pricing breakdown: CASE.

Every clan mech component that mounts ammo technically has CASE too. If you're including XL Engines in the cost, why not case also?

Let's add a 25% clan VAT on all mechs too while we're at it, just to increase the height of the paywall a little bit more for good measure

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

Torgun, on 09 July 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

The 30% CBill bonus trumps ECM by a landslide for most players, since they don't have a couple billion CBills in this harsh economy.

Even with a 30% bonus, assuming average earnings of 100k per match, you're only making an extra 30k C-bills, which will take 160 matches on just that one mech for that 30% bonus to pay off the extra C-bills spent to upgrade the engine to make for a more survivable light mech. I don't play any one light variant that much, as they just aren't as survivable, especially with the new leg damage they are taking, but perhaps there are other dedicated light pilots that would play the Ember at least that many matches or more and the extra cost would be worth it to them.

[Torgun]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 09 July 2014 - 10:04 AM, said:

Even with a 30% bonus, assuming average earnings of 100k per match, you're only making an extra 30k C-bills, which will take 160 matches on just that one mech for that 30% bonus to pay off the extra C-bills spent to upgrade the engine to make for a more survivable light mech. I don't play any one light variant that much, as they just aren't as survivable, especially with the new leg damage they are taking, but perhaps there are other dedicated light pilots that would play the Ember at least that many matches or more and the extra cost would be worth it to them.

We're comparing two lights here, I'm pretty sure if you buy the Kit Fox for MC you're somewhat interested in running a light mech fairly often, especially for that inflated price. And you know how much it will cost me to put a big XL in a Firestarter? Not one C-dime because I already own the engine. There's no such savings for Clan mechs, which is why I'm saying they're way too costly.

Edited by Torgun, 09 July 2014 - 10:08 AM.

[Ph30nix]

if i hadnt paid cash already id have willingly payed 10 mil cbills for a version i could swap the engine on.....

[TheMagician]

I disagree with this decision. The clan mechs should not cost more. Their reason for doing so, shows problems with the economic model, which needs a re-vamp. PGI, please re-look at how you setup the economy of this game. I encourage to completely re-work it. As it is, the economic system de-motivates people to play, particularly those who are just looking to get into the game.

Edited by TheMagician, 09 July 2014 - 10:28 AM.

[Andross Deverow]

ElCadaver, on 08 July 2014 - 06:04 PM, said:

This is where I feel we are approaching the pay to win horizon. Not that all clan mechs are great, but with more experience, better pilots are going to be able to get more out of their clan mechs than IS mechs ton-for-ton. This will make a difference in the competitve arena, and clan warfare, both of which I want to compete in.

I've spent enough money on MWO at this point. I've decided to get clan mechs with C-bills. Probably the Madcat, Direwolf and Nova Variants.

I've been grinding away in my Misery and Muromets (yes, I have purchased MC). I'm pretty good damage and kill wise, and can usually bring in 150,000-200,000 cbills per win, without premium time.

I have 21 mil C-bills atm. I doubt I will be able to save enough even for the direwolf variants by the time they are available for c-bills in September (circa 25-29 mil c-bills each according to Sarna, so probably more on MWO).

The Grindy grind was bearable with IS mechs in the beginning, but the business structure is raising the stakes for free to play players by, in my opinion, making it impossible to get into the most competitve mechs without Insufferable grind ( I predict seeing Madcats, Novas and Kitfoxes featuring heavily in 12mans in the future competitions)

As others have argued, it takes almost twice as much to get mechs kitted out for comp. This holds true at the lower weight limits, but the disparity increases in the 85-100 ton range where you only need 3-5 mil extra to get a DDC up to spec, making the total investment about 15 mil, which will be less than half a direwolf.

Thoughts?

Madcats are already featured heavily in most matches. I would hazard a guess of between 30 and 40% of the twelve mechs are Timberwolves.

Regards

[Lyoto Machida]

Widowmaker1981, on 09 July 2014 - 03:08 AM, said:

if you dont care about elite skills (and doubled basics) you are playing with one hand tied behind your back.


to the point that i just bought 3000 MC to elite the 3 direwhales with GXP, because playing them without elites/doubled basics is like trying to drive that ship on forest colony

Just finished basics on my 3rd Dire Wolf last night...ground it up without using GXP. Took a bit of getting used to but I ended up with 59 kills/31 deaths between the three of them so far...a pain to drive at first but I'm sure it will be even better with Elite/2x. I never take that thing on my own in PUGs though...you're just asking to get left behind then.

[Revis Volek]

ArchAngelT, on 08 July 2014 - 11:18 PM, said:

What would be nice is if they kicked the fixed engine. If they would have announced that before hand, like in a news letter to our emails, I wouldnt have have bought the direwolfs or any clan mechs. And with hit boxes still messed up on many mechs especially the new direwolf's CT(every hit to LT or RT going to CT) clan mechs really are not worth it. And until they start the LRM limiting, and allow engine swaps or ams on any torso or arm, the game is way 1 sided. I mean they didnt even say that the direwolf wouldnt be able to move its arms from side to side,(just up and down) bs. Not all mechs were created equal, if they were every1 would be running around in tricked out jenners. I mean u cant even upgrade armor or internals on the direwolf. its got the same amount of armor as an Atlas. I'm pretty sure the clans didnt leave for so long just to come back alil itty bitty tiny bit stronger, faster, efficent. I mean come on.

Really? Is this a real gripe? Or are you just a silly troll? So you are upset because your clan mechs you bought are not P2W....waa.


Also, i see a lot people upset that they cant swap the Clan mech engines....this is the WAY ITS SUPPOSE TO BE! Clan mech engines are welded in and NOT SWAPPABLE! If you want free customization stick with IS mechs.

Edited by DarthRevis, 09 July 2014 - 11:38 AM.