364 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

Ok guys, something has been beaten like a dead horse and it just has no ring of truth to it...

Clan Mechs are NOT OP.

Skill is absolutely OP.

Myself, and the average guys on our comp team for my Clan Wolf unit, typically spend something in the neighborhood of 30-35 hours per week dropping in MWO.

Seriously...it is like a second full time job.

If any of you who drop less than 10 hours per week on MWO think you are going to be able to play even remotely close to the skill level of dedicated players, who play this game every moment they are not doing anything else...then you are deluding yourself and over evaluating your skill level.

This is not just twitch skill, it is also time spent in game, in mechs, dropping. Getting familiar with chassis, figuring out how to kill them, and kill with them.

So, while you may take L2P as derogatory, and in shortened form it may come off as that. However, the reality is...skill is OP. No mech is unkillable, no loadout is completely foolproof, and no pilot is completely unerring. Some just commit fewer errors than others.

So, next time you die and you think it is not fair...please sit back and evaluate what YOU did in game, and how that might have lead to you being in a situation where you were exploited for making a mental mistake.

-my 2 cents

Edited by Gyrok, 14 July 2014 - 11:42 AM.

[GreyGriffin]

What 'Mechs do you bring to a competitive match and why?

Edited by GreyGriffin, 13 July 2014 - 02:13 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Nice pep talk

[vettie]

GreyGriffin, on 13 July 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

What 'Mechs do you bring to a competitive match and why?

IF I am DC for my team, I bring either a heavy or Victor. If I am LC or just a pilot, I take what I am told. usually a Centurion or Victor.

The why part? I take what is needed for the team, and how I can help the most.

[Roland]

I've never heard of Clan Wolf delta galaxy.

[Adiuvo]

So... why do teams better than yours and players better than you think that specific clan mechs are OP?

Also, while I appreciate that you guys are playing in at least Marik Civil War, and while I hope for your continued improvement... you and your team haven't done anything notable. At this stage it doesn't make sense to toss out playtime as if that alone proves your skill.

Edited by Adiuvo, 13 July 2014 - 02:20 PM.

[GreyGriffin]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

So... why do teams better than yours and players better than you think that specific clan mechs are OP?

Also, while I appreciate that you guys are playing in at least Marik Civil War, and while I hope for your continued improvement... you and your team haven't done anything notable. At this stage it doesn't make sense to toss out playtime as if that alone proves your skill.

From another thread.

GreyGriffin, on 13 July 2014 - 12:43 PM, said:

I find that the opinions of Comp teams are hyper focused on maintaining the fine balance of top tier play at a status quo rather than wanting to shake it up by making dramatic, core mechanics changes. You notice the TW's OP-ness in your hyper focused world and it rocks it, because you are only using 3 'mechs in the first place.

The Timber Wolf isn't the problem. The mechanics that allow the Timber Wolf to excel at the current carousel jump sniping metagame are the problem. And nerfing the TW's mobility and victimizing jumpless mediums with excessive leg damage is not the solution.

To most players, the Timber Wolf isn't the problem. The Dragon Slayer / Cataphract 3D / Shadow Hawk / Firestarter are the problem, and the Timber Wolf is just another log added to that fire. Three of those 'mechs plus the Timber Wolf are a problem for exactly the same reason - instant pinpoint damage to a single location. Outside the highest tier of play, the Dire Wolf and the Boomjager are part of the same problem, but none of the top tier players weigh in on them because they don't jump.

Comp players may know their four trees very, very well, and be upset about tree number 5, but they certainly don't see the entire forest.

[Bulletsponge0]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

So... why do teams better than yours and players better than you think that specific clan mechs are OP?

Also, while I appreciate that you guys are playing in at least Marik Civil War, and while I hope for your continued improvement... you and your team haven't done anything notable. At this stage it doesn't make sense to toss out playtime as if that alone proves your skill.

What mechs were those teams using before the clans and why?

[vettie]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

So... why do teams better than yours and players better than you think that specific clan mechs are OP?

not saying I am better than the original poster, or that my team is better than his.

Players in general say specific Clan mechs are OP because of the profile of the mech and the amount of armament that those mechs are capable of taking. As he originally said, no mech is unkillable. Just have to learn how to fight them.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

Clan Mechs are NOT OP.

Skill is absolutely OP.

If any of you who drop less than 10 hours per week on MWO think you are going to be able to play even remotely close to the skill level of dedicated players, who play this game every moment they are not doing anything else...then you are diluting yourself and over evaluating your skill level.

So, while you may take L2P as derogatory, and in shortened form it may come off as that.

Clearly you put a lot of thought into this post, which makes it all the more painful to point out the obvious flaws in your logic: Elo and matchmaker. You see, thanks to those two items players don't have to dedicate hours of their life to a computer game.

Casual players should be able to play the game and enjoy themselves, and if you think differently, then I am affraid you have been wasting 30-40 hours a week because with out the casual gamer, MWO will fail and shut down.

To be clear, under no circumstance is L2P a valid argument for balance issues in a non-competitive arena. I am glad you and your friends take the game so seriously, it is good to have a hardcore fanbase, however I hope you realize you are the minority, and recognize that this game lives or dies based on the support of the typical gamer.

[Skunk Wolf]

TL:DR

I think it was something about using aimbots.

[Adiuvo]

GreyGriffin, on 13 July 2014 - 02:21 PM, said:

From another thread.

Even if the Timberwolf magically loses access to PPC/Gauss it will still be a broken mech in comparison to everything else. This build, for instance. That's better than pretty much every brawler right now not only due to armament, but due to speed and tanking power.

Bulletsponge0, on 13 July 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

What mechs were those teams using before the clans and why?

Dragon Slayers, 3Ds, etc.. As to why... the benefits of those mechs has been discussed through the forums quite often. There's a thread right now asking what the meta is that can provide a decent enough summary. As for why the Timberwolf is powerful, it does the same thing those mechs do, just better.

Edited by Adiuvo, 13 July 2014 - 02:29 PM.

[Bulletsponge0]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Even if the Timberwolf magically loses access to PPC/Gauss it will still be a broken mech in comparison to everything else. This build, for instance. That's better than pretty much every brawler right now not only due to armament, but due to speed and tanking power.


Dragon Slayers, 3Ds, etc.. As to why... the benefits of those mechs has been discussed through the forums quite often. There's a thread right now asking what the meta is that can provide a decent enough summary. As for why the Timberwolf is powerful, it does the same thing those mechs do, just better.

So, the competitive players used those mechs because they were OP, and now don't like it because a comparable mech has been released that they can't use in competition yet?

[Adiuvo]

Bulletsponge0, on 13 July 2014 - 02:33 PM, said:

So, the competitive players used those mechs because they were OP, and now don't like it because a comparable mech has been released that they can't use in competition yet?

?... like really, I don't get what you're saying at all.

We don't use them in comp because they aren't available for cbills yet. No other teams can either, so it's not like it's an uneven playing field. This rule was put in through the league admins, ie., the competitive community made this rule for itself. It's not like PGI banned clans or anything...

In pub play? Yeah, it's basically TImberwolves all day long.

Edited by Adiuvo, 13 July 2014 - 02:34 PM.

[stjobe]

I used to spend 30-40 hours a week on MWO; did so for the first year and a half I was here. These days though I'm happy if I can stand 3-4 hours per week.

Skill is OP, sure. Teamwork is even more OP.

That doesn't change the fact that MWO has never ever had any semblance of either 'mech or weapon balance; there's always something that's OP, and sadly there's more and more things that are UP.

[xXBagheeraXx]

People also keep forgetting that.

A. In the actual timeline these events took place, Clan mechs were supposed to wipe the floor with Equivalent IS mechs. That that is not the case in game right now speaks volumes towards balance.

B. Yeah the firepower can be pretty obscene. After all the Dire wolf is THE BEST ARMED MECH pretty much in the lore. But we have yet to have any "big gun" Is heavies and assaults to be introduced yet. Wait till dual ac20, or Dual Gauss king crabs are running around with large standard engines...IS OP AC20 OP NERF PLZ. Quad UAc5 Maulers anyone?

We dont have any good equivalent IS mechs at the moment, cept for the Victor and really well driven Cataphracts. Wait a while, let the clans settle, let the cbill variants come out so all the nay-sayers can see how easy it is to get CT rekt in a dire wolf and most of all LET THEM INTRODUCE SOME NASITER IS MECHS...I'm also pretty sure that buffs to is weapons, especially the autocannons (crosses fingers for burst fire and velocity buffs) are in the pipes. They would be kinda stupid not to.

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Even if the Timberwolf magically loses access to PPC/Gauss it will still be a broken mech in comparison to everything else. This build, for instance. That's better than pretty much every brawler right now not only due to armament, but due to speed and tanking power.

Take note as to where the majority of your ammo is placed. WHen i see Madcats packing anything like that, or dual lrm20s I actually shoot the arms off. THey have good survivability with the Clan Xl engines but as far as getting thier firepower gimped? They are horrible. Losing a side torso with that build pretty much negates most of your armament, and heat sinks.

[GreyGriffin]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Even if the Timberwolf magically loses access to PPC/Gauss it will still be a broken mech in comparison to everything else. This build, for instance. That's better than pretty much every brawler right now not only due to armament, but due to speed and tanking power.

It's also a festival of heat because of how laser heat is balanced plus four SRM 6 racks. I'd much rather shut down behind a hill after PPC hopping than in the midst of a short range firefight. You can get pretty much the same result sans 1 rack out of a Stormcrow, but oh wait, lacking that 1 crucial jump jet.

[Flyby215]

Adiuvo, on 13 July 2014 - 02:18 PM, said:

So... why do teams better than yours and players better than you think that specific clan mechs are OP?

Also, while I appreciate that you guys are playing in at least Marik Civil War, and while I hope for your continued improvement... you and your team haven't done anything notable. At this stage it doesn't make sense to toss out playtime as if that alone proves your skill.

So what if they haven't done anything noteable, they're having fun playing and supporting the game. There's no reason at all to discredit his opinion or value him any less as a player.

Playtime isn't a perfect indicator of skill or competency, but it's a reasonable assumption. Typically speaking I would rather take advice from a player with 10,000 matches under their belt at a 50/50 W/L ratio than someone who has played 1,000 games at a 90/10 W/L ratio. Then again, I'm also the type who listens to my elders.

Sorry, I know by the time I am making this post I am no longer on topic; but for some reason the above quote just irked me a little.

[FupDup]

The real monster boogeyman is instant, perfect convergence. We can combine a large number of weapons to form a single, devastating 30-50 point superweapon that pile-drives through the toughest armor. Mechs that can jump just so happen to be better at taking advantage of this than land-bound mechs, due to exposure time.

[Adiuvo]

xXBagheeraXx, on 13 July 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

Take note as to where the majority of your ammo is placed. WHen i see Madcats packing anything like that, or dual lrm20s I actually shoot the arms off. THey have good survivability with the Clan Xl engines but as far as getting thier firepower gimped? They are horrible. Losing a side torso with that build pretty much negates most of your armament, and heat sinks.

Clans have free case. At worst you'll just lose the component. IIRC ammunition on clans still moves from left to right so after the CT ammo is gone the left arm ammo will be used up, and once it is you're fine since you'll presumably be keeping your right side from harm.

Losing a side torso and the associated firepower is a problem on any mech, including IS ones. There aren't any brawlers in this game that are fully asymmetrical. That's a sniper only thing.

GreyGriffin, on 13 July 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

It's also a festival of heat because of how laser heat is balanced plus four SRM 6 racks. I'd much rather shut down behind a hill after PPC hopping than in the midst of a short range firefight. You can get pretty much the same result sans 1 rack out of a Stormcrow, but oh wait, lacking that 1 crucial jump jet.

You don't need to fire all the medium lasers all the time... DPS wise you'd be relying on the SRMs if you're in a prolonged fight. Knocking it down to two meds gives you enough staying power anyways.

And yeah, the JJ is pretty important and since the TW doesn't have them locked it can use one just fine. Now if it was locked to 4 when using S side torsos...