364 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Whatever seems best. I'm game. May end up being tomorrow, but we do a lot of e-peen waggling here on the forums. We've got private matches now, what we need to do is actually test it and post results.

[InspectorG]

Mystere, on 14 July 2014 - 06:50 PM, said:

I have come to the conclusion that Firestarters are indeed OP because of the Ember. My proof is in the forums (i.e. because people "much better than me" said they are).

Decent observation.
Embers can shoot the MGs while cooling, jj, decent hitboxes, unlock arms, decent speed.
The other favorite is jenners.

Didnt see many commandos or ravens at the end of the tournament.

[Sandpit]

MischiefSC, on 14 July 2014 - 08:32 PM, said:

Whatever seems best. I'm game. May end up being tomorrow, but we do a lot of e-peen waggling here on the forums. We've got private matches now, what we need to do is actually test it and post results.

Here's where your equations (everyone's not just yours)

None of those metrics can take into account individual skill levels. If you beat him it could very well be that you're simply better than him and vice versa. The only thing that it really proves is that one player is better than another. It could very well be that another player could beat you as many times as you beat him or vice versa he beats you.

Not even Elo accounts for that in a fps type game as all of the complaints and such you see in the forums.

[Roland]

Usually for testing, we alternate the players driving the mechs, to try and remove pilot skill from the equation.

[Mystere]

Peter2000, on 14 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

As the author of said document, I'd like to say a few things. First, sorry about any phrasing that was not the most beautiful prose - I may overuse some words, like massive. However, when I use that particular word, I mean a very large qualitative difference (i.e. one that cannot easily be quantified, but is large and positive).

Bad, bad, bad for a scientific analysis on whether something is overpowered or not.

Peter2000, on 14 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

I don't brush off the difference between multi-pellet ballistics. I do, however, split it into two roles for the AC/5 (the best fire support AND jumpsniping AC): fire support and jumpsniping. For firesupport, you are at near full front if you want to maximize DPS, so the pellet stream is a minor disadvantage, while you still benefit from free tonnage and crits.

However, you are assuming that the target is not in motion. A better analysis should consider burst-fire vs single-projectile weapons being fired at moving targets of different sizes, at many specific ranges, at various speeds, and at various angles of attack. This is one of the required "dynamic analyses" that I was referring to.

Peter2000, on 14 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

For jump sniping (or really any sort of sniping, side-peek trading, etc.), I agree it makes a HUGE difference, and breaks the CUAC/5 for that role. However, the Clan Gauss can replace it: IS Gauss is about as good in jump sniping as IS AC/5, and the Clan Gauss is better than IS Gauss. And this is not without justification. I say in the advantages section (under weapons) that the Clan Gauss and IS Gauss are identical except that the Clan Gauss saves 3 tons and 1 crit, which is quite substantial.

Again your choice of words leave a lot to be desired ( ). 12 vs. 15 tons might(?) pass as substantial but 6 vs. 7 slots does not.

Peter2000, on 14 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

SRMs, especially Clan SRMs, which are far more tonnage efficient are starting to compete with the AC/20 again, now that reg is fixed. Sure, I'd probably rather use an AC/20 to pop a Jenner in the face, but I might rather have triple ASRM6s (no question I'd prefer quad Clan ASRM6s) against a Highlander at 150m.

And this is the area where I have the biggest concern.

You're comparing the AC20 and SRMs at 150 meters. But what about at longer ranges, especially at greater than 270, where SRMs do no damage while the AC20 can still deal them? You should also at the same time consider the scenario in which both firing and target mechs are in motion. Finally the inherent damage spread of SRMS must also be considered (which by the way also need to be measured at various ranges).

Again, this is one of the required "dynamic analyses" that I was referring to.

And once again, you have an unfortunate choice of words.

Peter2000, on 14 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

The LBX comment is the way it is because spread is inherently hard to quantify. Yes, the spread is a disadvantage. But, it is tight to the point where in testing grounds (because you can quantify better against known entities in a controlled environment), I've found that 150m allows more or less panel-specific damage, which is what makes the AC/20 is so good. As a result, the Clan LBX20 may be worse in some situations (~300-150m, where the spread is a bit much), but better in others (<150m, where the spread is a minor concern and the two tons saving are nice to have). Even if (as I suspect) on the whole the IS AC/20 is a better weapon, it is by a small margin, and is only one weapon comparison.

Same comments/concerns as above, including the unfortunate choice of words.


I have one final comment. The last sentence of your conclusion:

Ultimately, Clan > IS, due in large part to the massive advantages that Clan equipment and weaponry confer.

is partly contradicted by the first and second sentences:

Ultimately, not all Clan ‘Mechs are competitive with the top IS ‘Mechs. In a traditional sense, this is the Nova, the Summoner, and above all, the Timberwolf, which puts everything to shame.

given that (as you claim) only 3 of 8 Clan mechs are better. It is further undermined by the lack of any quantitative "scoring system" and final "score" (for lack of more appropriate words which elude me at the moment -- an understandable problem when one is on vacation and not at work [ ]) to support your conclusion.

Edited by Mystere, 14 July 2014 - 10:04 PM.

[lpmagic]

Wow... really dude? Ive been sittin back drinking my coffee and reading this spectacle all day today and you basically just insulted not only me, but every member of Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy.

Well see what you think of our unit of unwanted toys when I headshot you with my sniper builds or throw some srm's in your face.

I cannot wait to see you on the battlefield. I will be coming for you. I hope your ready.

- Alwrath



Now we're getting to brass tacks what was a thinly veiled threat, after some seriously blasé "I'll post that for you buddy" based off of a screen shot of CDW beating some of us, and I feel fine interjecting as my name was used. We don't keep screenshots of every victory, no need, that Gyro does is a testament to his all powerful self, hope he has it framed! (would love a copy for my wall)

This is really about a person who really believes his diatribe makes sense, and having been in one league, And I believe that you were a tier 3 or 4 team in that league? thinks he speaks for a majority of competitive players. This Is the rub. Engineering and numbers are great, awesome, but meaningless without further information, like the physics of the game, differing frames, hit boxes, many many factors.

Numbers have bearing, but we do not have them all, you must add geometry of the compared mechs, and then add in significant calculations for positioning and agility, no to mention jump jets and their reaction to the "quirks" of each mech. Adiuvo and many of the others in this thread were playing 30-45 hours a week in a team atmosphere long before any of you, and do have hard ground to stand on, experience, what actually works and does not, it is simply foolish to deny what actually works In game because you found a chart of torso twist speeds?????? kinda funny actually.

Don't blemish yourself further by threatening people, if you guys are a fledgling group, you should be looking for friends in the competitive scene, you truly only get better by playing up the ladder. And things like this do not lend themselves towards making friends.

And Alwrath? I'm sure it will be a glorious reunion when you try to headshot Kyle, that should be a hoot, cause I'm pretty sure I'll be there when the attempt goes down, I may be a horrible pilot and unable to help, but I'm sure someone will jump In to save poor Kyle, just never mind me over in the corner cowering.

way to take things wayyyyyyyyy past where they needed to be lulz

see ya in the funny papers......

Edited by lpmagic, 14 July 2014 - 10:09 PM.

[Orbit Rain]

Gyrok, on 13 July 2014 - 06:30 PM, said:

TW - (375) 89 kph 57.32 Deg/s (90Deg Twist -20% for S model Side Torsos)
ON1 - (375) 89 kph 57.32 Deg/s (90 Deg Twist)

Orion's have a 360 engine cap. I suppose one could drop the engine on an Orion get equivalent weapons loadouts, but you're looking at a much slower ride without jump-jets, one side-torso destruction death, etc. Ton for ton, the TW outclasses the ON1. To what degree, could be gone through with a fine-tooth comb, build to build, I suppose.

I cooked up example for this thread. LRM50, TAG, 6 tons ammo is the baseline.

ON1-V, XL360, LRM20, 2xLRM15, TAG, ML 368 points armor, 14 DHS

TW - XL375, LRM20, 2xLRM15, TAG, 2LL, 1JJ, 441 points armor, 15 DHS

With the TW, you go faster, jump, don't die when you lose one torso, have one more DHS, and 2LL's instead of one ML as "backup" weapons. Which one is more powerful?

2 LL> 1ML, 1JJ>0JJ, 15DHS>14DHS, XL375>XL360, 441>368...Is that math...those numbers OP is asking for.

I can't speak to clan mechs other than TW's and DW's at this point, but yes, TW's are over-powered compared to IS mechs.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Kyle Wright, on 14 July 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Bring it dude, as far as i am concerned you cant even fight out of a wet paper bag. Why dont you guys actually try rising through the ranks before you step into the ring with the big boys. Till then you aint worth the time of any high level competitive team. Best suggestion I could say is stop running your clan death machines and start running 12's with IS mechs cause you aint gonna see it in league play any time soon.

LOL. You are entertaining. I was in Blackstone Knights fighting SJR SWK 228th probably before you even joined your unit. Ive been a big boy since early beta, competing in leagues, run hot or die etc. I own every single IS mech except for lights.

I took a small break from comp play because BSK pissed me off ( funny how they disappeared kinda saw that coming ) But now im back in the comp scene. I thought about joining SWK and SJR but decided to go with Clan Wolf Delta, and I have no regrets. I actually drop in IS mechs more often than my Timberwolf, which is the only clan mech I got. You sir could not be more wrong in your assumption about me, or what skill level im at. Matter of fact, you dont have a clue.

Edited by Alwrath, 14 July 2014 - 10:36 PM.

[Gyrok]

MischiefSC, on 14 July 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

Absolutely. You're going to run an HGN 733C with a brawling build, I'm going to take a TW with the build of my choice. I did say that since you'd compared the TW to the Phract and Orion prior it's fair to say you owe at least one match in either.

The whole point being that the TW punches way outside its weight. The fact that you need to take a 95 ton Highlander to even hope to break even.

I'm totally game though. Even giving you a 20 ton edge, the TW is a tougher mech. The only issue is if I'm good enough to take advantage of it to make up the 20 ton difference.

Actually, I agreed to a CTF...revising my position on that. I will take the CTF against the TW. Will get with you...sorry, got tied into some skirms against HoL tonight...we will do it though

[Gyrok]

Peter2000, on 14 July 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

As the author of said document, I'd like to say a few things. First, sorry about any phrasing that was not the most beautiful prose - I may overuse some words, like massive. However, when I use that particular word, I mean a very large qualitative difference (i.e. one that cannot easily be quantified, but is large and positive). I also use numbers whenever I can (see the section on Clan advantage in weaponry, where I practically throw the smurfy reference library at you ).

I don't brush off the difference between multi-pellet ballistics. I do, however, split it into two roles for the AC/5 (the best fire support AND jumpsniping AC): fire support and jumpsniping. For firesupport, you are at near full front if you want to maximize DPS, so the pellet stream is a minor disadvantage, while you still benefit from free tonnage and crits. For jump sniping (or really any sort of sniping, side-peek trading, etc.), I agree it makes a HUGE difference, and breaks the CUAC/5 for that role. However, the Clan Gauss can replace it: IS Gauss is about as good in jump sniping as IS AC/5, and the Clan Gauss is better than IS Gauss. And this is not without justification. I say in the advantages section (under weapons) that the Clan Gauss and IS Gauss are identical except that the Clan Gauss saves 3 tons and 1 crit, which is quite substantial.

SRMs, especially Clan SRMs, which are far more tonnage efficient are starting to compete with the AC/20 again, now that reg is fixed. Sure, I'd probably rather use an AC/20 to pop a Jenner in the face, but I might rather have triple ASRM6s (no question I'd prefer quad Clan ASRM6s) against a Highlander at 150m.

The LBX comment is the way it is because spread is inherently hard to quantify. Yes, the spread is a disadvantage. But, it is tight to the point where in testing grounds (because you can quantify better against known entities in a controlled environment), I've found that 150m allows more or less panel-specific damage, which is what makes the AC/20 is so good. As a result, the Clan LBX20 may be worse in some situations (~300-150m, where the spread is a bit much), but better in others (<150m, where the spread is a minor concern and the two tons saving are nice to have). Even if (as I suspect) on the whole the IS AC/20 is a better weapon, it is by a small margin, and is only one weapon comparison.

Only in an IS mech would that difference come into play. Those weapons are designed for CLAN MECHS. That is why you cannot run IS Gauss in a Clan mech, and you cannot run Clan Gauss in an IS mech. THAT is PART of the balance. Look at how crit slot starved the clan mechs are...they are designed to accomodate that. Along with the MASSIVE engines they cram into the majority of them...

As far as CGauss and Gauss go:

Identical recharge
Identical range
Identical damage
Identical heat

So, from a purely balance perspective...because if you consider crit slots and tonnage, you must ALSO consider chassis...they are PERFECTLY balanced. If you shoot one in game it does the EXACT same thing for either side.

(This, honestly, is by and large a BIG portion of why I think your analysis is slanted, you continue to look at things as though they go into an IS mech. They will NEVER go into an IS mech...PERIOD, so that tangential point is moot, the chassis restrictions balance it)

[Gyrok]

Kyle Wright, on 14 July 2014 - 07:58 PM, said:

Bring it dude, as far as i am concerned you cant even fight out of a wet paper bag. Why dont you guys actually try rising through the ranks before you step into the ring with the big boys. Till then you aint worth the time of any high level competitive team. Best suggestion I could say is stop running your clan death machines and start running 12's with IS mechs cause you aint gonna see it in league play any time soon.

You still on about that?

[Gyrok]

lpmagic, on 14 July 2014 - 10:05 PM, said:

Wow... really dude? Ive been sittin back drinking my coffee and reading this spectacle all day today and you basically just insulted not only me, but every member of Clan Wolf Delta Galaxy.

Well see what you think of our unit of unwanted toys when I headshot you with my sniper builds or throw some srm's in your face.

I cannot wait to see you on the battlefield. I will be coming for you. I hope your ready.

- Alwrath



Now we're getting to brass tacks what was a thinly veiled threat, after some seriously blasé "I'll post that for you buddy" based off of a screen shot of CDW beating some of us, and I feel fine interjecting as my name was used. We don't keep screenshots of every victory, no need, that Gyro does is a testament to his all powerful self, hope he has it framed! (would love a copy for my wall)

This is really about a person who really believes his diatribe makes sense, and having been in one league, And I believe that you were a tier 3 or 4 team in that league? thinks he speaks for a majority of competitive players. This Is the rub. Engineering and numbers are great, awesome, but meaningless without further information, like the physics of the game, differing frames, hit boxes, many many factors.

Numbers have bearing, but we do not have them all, you must add geometry of the compared mechs, and then add in significant calculations for positioning and agility, no to mention jump jets and their reaction to the "quirks" of each mech. Adiuvo and many of the others in this thread were playing 30-45 hours a week in a team atmosphere long before any of you, and do have hard ground to stand on, experience, what actually works and does not, it is simply foolish to deny what actually works In game because you found a chart of torso twist speeds?????? kinda funny actually.

Don't blemish yourself further by threatening people, if you guys are a fledgling group, you should be looking for friends in the competitive scene, you truly only get better by playing up the ladder. And things like this do not lend themselves towards making friends.

And Alwrath? I'm sure it will be a glorious reunion when you try to headshot Kyle, that should be a hoot, cause I'm pretty sure I'll be there when the attempt goes down, I may be a horrible pilot and unable to help, but I'm sure someone will jump In to save poor Kyle, just never mind me over in the corner cowering.

way to take things wayyyyyyyyy past where they needed to be lulz

see ya in the funny papers......

While Alwrath overstepped boundaries, we will police our own. I suggest you put a leash on yours as well. The insults have flown enough in here...I think the peanut gallery has had enough for one day...

As for your opinions...if they are formulated off that cocktail napkin math and generic write up that was shown earlier...you do not even have half the facts.

That is the issue there...you are simply not doing PROPER qualitative AND quantitative analysis to be able to actually form conclusions.

You guys are concocting a theory you cannot prove...like a theoretical physicist.

The difference is...he spends 20 years trying to solve one piece of an equation so big super computers cannot yet run the calculations...(nor can they confirm the formula is valid or invalid).

Meanwhile that document makes a bunch of brash generalizations about things that are unfounded entirely to begin with.

Orbit Rain, on 14 July 2014 - 10:13 PM, said:

Orion's have a 360 engine cap. I suppose one could drop the engine on an Orion get equivalent weapons loadouts, but you're looking at a much slower ride without jump-jets, one side-torso destruction death, etc. Ton for ton, the TW outclasses the ON1. To what degree, could be gone through with a fine-tooth comb, build to build, I suppose.

I cooked up example for this thread. LRM50, TAG, 6 tons ammo is the baseline.

ON1-V, XL360, LRM20, 2xLRM15, TAG, ML 368 points armor, 14 DHS

TW - XL375, LRM20, 2xLRM15, TAG, 2LL, 1JJ, 441 points armor, 15 DHS

With the TW, you go faster, jump, don't die when you lose one torso, have one more DHS, and 2LL's instead of one ML as "backup" weapons. Which one is more powerful?

2 LL> 1ML, 1JJ>0JJ, 15DHS>14DHS, XL375>XL360, 441>368...Is that math...those numbers OP is asking for.

I can't speak to clan mechs other than TW's and DW's at this point, but yes, TW's are over-powered compared to IS mechs.

More cocktail napkin math...

How about with ballistic loadouts and PPCs? Considering the meta cares nothing for LRMs and begrudgingly accepts SRMs as a BACKUP weapon.

[MischiefSC]

Sandpit, on 14 July 2014 - 09:10 PM, said:

Here's where your equations (everyone's not just yours)

None of those metrics can take into account individual skill levels. If you beat him it could very well be that you're simply better than him and vice versa. The only thing that it really proves is that one player is better than another. It could very well be that another player could beat you as many times as you beat him or vice versa he beats you.

Not even Elo accounts for that in a fps type game as all of the complaints and such you see in the forums.

Yes and no. Most people fit into the 'average' field. By most I mean about 85%, maybe more in a game like this. 'above/below average' ends up at about 13%, 'exceptional/terrible' is about 2%.

He and I, or Mcgral18 and I, or most sets of players, can 'test' mechs pretty effectively - what they're representing is how average people do with them.

Here's where mech balance gets fuzzy though. As you get into that top1% (or fraction of a %) you start seeing exponential returns on small advantages. I do pretty good with a poptart. I don't enjoy it, but I can do it. I can (and have) fill in with a 12man in a poptart without being on comms and hold my point in the line just fine. I get my 1-2 kills and if I die, it's in the middle of the roll that killed all of us. When pugging I get a good benefit from using the PPFLD meta and my 3xAC5+2PPC Banshee or 1xGauss+3xPPC Banshee is a beast - compared to how I do in other builds. I do 'good' for me in a TW.

You get into that top 1% or faction of a % (top 5 or 10 players in the game) and that benefit reaps exponential results, even against other people in that top band. Hence why I say the TW is OP, but not terrible OP - not like the Boomjag or pre-nerfstorm HGN/VTRs were. While the top tier players can confirm that they find them superior, it's not the obvious crushing weight of one-sided destruction that the peak poptart days were.

For most of us, it's a significant advantage, just not a dramatic one.

Where the TW shines is two places - 1v1 and flexibility. It does *everything* as good or nearly as good as whatever other mech/chassis is the peak of that class. It can poptart with a DS or it can LRM with a Stalker or it can brawl with a Banshee or CTF dakkaboat. In 1v1 this translates into the ability to *always* take a better loadout than any 1 other mech, given the superior survivability of the Clan XL. Speed + better ranged weapons. Any IS mech is going to have 1 of 2 problems; either it's got an XL, in which case the TW has a significant advantage in survivability but is probably about the same speed and firepower (pretty close anyway), or the IS mech has a STD engine, but is slower and carrying less firepower.

In either case the IS mech is sacrificing in one area in order to break even with the Timber Wolf in the other.

That's all anything IS within 20 tons of TW can do - break even in half the catagories.

Skill isn't as important as people want to think it is. It never is. It only becomes so when you start getting into both extremes. Most of us, far and away, are pretty evenly matched. Better mechs make a big difference. When you get into the extremes though and the difference in skill comes down to 1% or 0.5% skill difference, that extra 5% or even 10% of 'advantage' a better mech gives you becomes exponential. If you and I are at 55% skill and 65% skill, the 5 or 10% advantage the mech gives is significant, but it's at most enough to bridge the difference in our skill gap. In the extremes it equates to 10 or 20x the difference in skill.

Make sense? That's why something has to be WAY out of balance for me to sweat it over-much. The advantages the TW gives take a lot of practice to exploit, regardless of skill level. Is it an advantage? Sure, enough of one that I'm pretty confident I can exploit it to a win in a 1v1 against anyone in my own approximate skill range in a mech within 20 tons of my own. In pug play? Meh, I'm as likely to use that extra speed to get myself out of position as I am into a better position.

[Praehotec8]

Jman5, on 14 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...00-more-charts/

This was done the week clan mechs were released so this is how they played straight out the gate when a lot of people were trying things out for the first time and still not basic'd.

This is a start, and the most compelling study I have seen to date on this website. I commend its author wholeheartedly. However, first of all, it is very low powered, and thus firm conclusions . Second, I suspect that should you assess for statistical significance, there would be none. The values all appear (to me at least) relatively well balanced given the discrepancy in the sample sizes of IS and Clan mechs. Third, a read over the evidence shows just as many IS mechs in the top 10 kills and damage/match. If you're looking for proof that the clans (and specifically the timberwolf) are OP, this is not the study you are looking for.

As for anecdotal evidence, how do you explain to people like me the fact that our abilities in this game have not magically changed with the clan mechs? My K:D ratio has remained the same despite the transition. Despite how it may have sounded, the OP really makes some degree of sense - in that to a very large degree, skill and teamwork matter much more than the individual mech and loadout chosen...and I am the type of player who is more often on the end that needs to assess what I did wrong in any given match.

Finally, for more circumstantial evidence. let me leave my own personal combat report (and brag a little - it was an awesome match for me!): I decided to pick out my ONI-K to see how it would fare on the modern battlefield. After an exciting assault type match I ended with 6 kills, 3 assists, and 738 dmg. I did manage to kill both a timberwolf and a nova among my opponents. The poor orion with its slow speed, large hitboxes, and lesser IS weapons, managed to hold its own against more than half of the enemy team. I find that the short burn times of IS lasers and the single burst of an AC20 are much more potent than people seem to credit.

[Praehotec8]

MischiefSC, on 14 July 2014 - 11:35 PM, said:

You get into that top 1% or faction of a % (top 5 or 10 players in the game) and that benefit reaps exponential results, even against other people in that top band. Hence why I say the TW is OP, but not terrible OP - not like the Boomjag or pre-nerfstorm HGN/VTRs were. While the top tier players can confirm that they find them superior, it's not the obvious crushing weight of one-sided destruction that the peak poptart days were.

For most of us, it's a significant advantage, just not a dramatic one.

The thing that strikes me about all this is that while people cry about the timber being, "OP," they are actually just saying it's very good or, as good as. To me, OP would be vastly better in some game breaking way, which the timber really is not. There will always be a "best" mech, unless they are all the same, and there will always be a "most versatile" as well. For average players, there is no game breaking advantage to the TW, and the highest tiers may as well all run the same mech anyways, since they will (I understand) do whatever it takes to win at all cost. They all seem to run the same builds already anyways...

[Kyle Wright]

Gyrok, on 14 July 2014 - 10:58 PM, said:

You still on about that?

And your point? Does that screen shot help you sleep at night? It means 1 of 3. 1) stars aligned you had a better match, 2) we had a horrible match and lost to a more organized team, or 3) both. But if this is yourself proclaim to the all mighty strength of your command then I'm sorry, but I'll buy 5 lbs of whatever your smoking. Until I see you beating teams higher consistent that are names like SJR or HoL I really don't care. I really hope my antics motivate you guys to progress up the ladder. To bad it looked like you guys missed MRBC, GO had its sister team running in group B and there were a couple experienced teams from our old unit HHOD running. Also include Apoc Lancers, SwK and SJR in group A. Would've been a good test.

Also let's point out a few things 5 players on that screen shot were former team 007 now BBW. Benjamin Davion is decent lead 2nd Battalion in HHoD. Ripper and Vastly are on the sister Team Wolfs of the North. They have some experience with leagues. Arran has was fa rely new to our unit at that time. Overall I'd be more then willing to bet a bad call and pilots not use to each other had some result. Also note there is no Peter2000, Big Stretch, Surelymohawk, or Khomeini guys that normally are current starters.

Edited by Kyle Wright, 15 July 2014 - 12:19 AM.

[Kyle Wright]

Alwrath, on 14 July 2014 - 10:32 PM, said:

LOL. You are entertaining. I was in Blackstone Knights fighting SJR SWK 228th probably before you even joined your unit. Ive been a big boy since early beta, competing in leagues, run hot or die etc. I own every single IS mech except for lights.

I took a small break from comp play because BSK pissed me off ( funny how they disappeared kinda saw that coming ) But now im back in the comp scene. I thought about joining SWK and SJR but decided to go with Clan Wolf Delta, and I have no regrets. I actually drop in IS mechs more often than my Timberwolf, which is the only clan mech I got. You sir could not be more wrong in your assumption about me, or what skill level im at. Matter of fact, you dont have a clue.

"Good good...let the hate flow through you." If you are as good as you say then I expect to see you guys one day in a league match. Got no problem letting the angry mob hunt me down as the team dissects your team mech by mech. Far as the clan/is mechs I wasn't directing you strictly but more of a every time I've seen your team lately it's Timberwolf Timberwolf... oh wait what's that a timberwolf, stormcrow and I think once a Victor which I assume was you perhaps?

As far as BSK was a good team, liked the paint jobs, and was sorry to see them go the way of the dodo bird.

[Praehotec8]

Kyle Wright, on 15 July 2014 - 12:08 AM, said:

every time I've seen your team lately it's Timberwolf Timberwolf

Not to intrude on a personal flame war, but....well...it IS clan WOLF, is it not?

(Sorry I couldn't resist...carry on with your debating) =P

[Kyle Wright]

Praehotec8, on 15 July 2014 - 12:15 AM, said:

Not to intrude on a personal flame war, but....well...it IS clan WOLF, is it not?

(Sorry I couldn't resist...carry on with your debating) =P

Lol that is true. We don't use Clan mechs in any of our official practices because there is no point. All the leagues have them forbidden till available for cbills. I agree that mechs like the Dragons layer and Ember should never been allowed in league play as there is no cbill variant that is identical. Once clan mechs are fully released, expect to see more stormcrow and timberwolf in any sort of league or PGI run tournament unless they input restrictions saying otherwise.

Edited by Kyle Wright, 15 July 2014 - 12:23 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Gyrok, on 14 July 2014 - 10:39 PM, said:

Actually, I agreed to a CTF...revising my position on that. I will take the CTF against the TW. Will get with you...sorry, got tied into some skirms against HoL tonight...we will do it though

No worries. I was playing KSP, pillaging science from Minmus after restarting with all my mods removed in preparation for 0.24.

For those who don't know what KSP is.... well, firstly, people who play KSP are better people than those who don't. Fundamentally.

Kerbal Space Program. Admittedly not everyone likes that sort of game - specifically because not all people are good, interesting, worthwhile people. Those who are like and play KSP.

People talk about challenging in MW:O. Pfft. Challenging is a successful manned landing and return on Eve or Moho on stock. Even more hardcore is playing with no saves/restarts - just dead Kerbonauts because you miscalculated how much dV you need on an injection burn and can't decelerate enough for capture at Moho because you set up for too steep of an approach. Or when you failed to strut your lander correctly and after a 7 hour long (real time) manned mission somewhere, you're bringing your lander back into Kerbin and when the chutes go into full deployment it rips them or what they're attached to off your lander, sending your brave Kerbonauts plummeting to their deaths, minutes away from safety after weeks of dodging death in the cold void of space.

So... yeah. No worries. Catch you around tomorrow or the day after. It would be even better if we can catch Mcgral18 on and test multiple people in multiple mechs to even out any skill differential. I'm telling you, the TW is the un-powdered back of the pimphand for 1v1.