213 replies to this topic

[Bravo 6 Actual]

As a very new player, I thought to roll a LRM boat as they fight from afar. WOW, did I get a lesson. Might be my build, 2 LRM 20 + art and twin LRM 5 + art going off at once is nice so long as you get protected. BUT be my yourself OR get flanked or overrun and no skill weps quickly becomes OMG someone help me.
While the weps are nice, the defense other than hiding is not there.
I am still learning the game, maps etc. I have found that if I get into trouble, I die easily.

In short, the LRM might an easily fired weapon system, but has plenty of weaknesses too.

[AlmightyAeng]

MetalGandalph, on 16 July 2014 - 03:05 AM, said:

The competitive scene is not only HOL or SJG. there are alot good players around. I often get matched with my group against or with them.
I knew before that some would just flame this topic it must be the lrm pilots.

No i dont get killed by lrm that often but when teams or players abuse lrms with 3+ lrm boats its kinda frustrating and destroys the play dynamic into a boring standoff especially with pugs.

When "team or players abuse TEAMWORK with 3+ teamwork boats" then they're playing the game correctly.

Come back and whine about a weapons system on a SINGLE mech that kills 5 guys and gets you 1000+ damage every time, not 3-4 of ANY mech gang-banging you back to the stone age. That's just teamwork and you getting caught with your pants down.

Edited by Ghost Badger, 16 July 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

orin, on 16 July 2014 - 03:47 AM, said:

(surprised that word, which has a tertiary use in regards to copulation (and is about as rude as copulation) got censored)

Anyway - main point - when average to rubbish players adopt something en-mass, it's an identifier quite like rats leaving a sinking ship. Yes there are counters (stand behind a rock, radar derp, EMS & AMS) - but if a single strategy or technology starts getting used a lot by middling players after a change, the change is worthy of reassessment.

Yet, the go-to meta of PPC's and a ballistic, adopted by tryhards the world over, is just fine? Yeah, your logic blows.

LordKnightFandragon, on 16 July 2014 - 04:10 AM, said:

Yes, Nerf AFK Disco....they cost alot of games im sure. Cuz, I mean, its not like your team couldnt have used the player's firepower......so yes, NERF AFK DISCO!!!

Lol, they did. Rejoin option

[Mystere]

orin, on 16 July 2014 - 03:41 AM, said:

Just played a series of matches where 80% of the mechs had switched to missile boat since the last patch because (to quote) "they've been buffed and it is like shooting fish in a barrel". The game is fine if you stand behind a rock for the first 12 minutes or so whilst everyone exhausts themselves *********** LRMs across the map.

I don't play anywhere near the "High ELO Master Race" - but when you see the average to rubbish players all switch builds to LRMs after a patch, you know that something has gone a bit wrong.

LRMs, especially the Clan version, were just updated. As such, people are trying them out. It's no big deal.

[Roland]

LRM's have consistently been one of the worst weapons in the game ever since they added the requirement that you hold a lock through the entire flight.

And when I say "Bad" I don't mean simply ineffective, but rather, actually bad, poorly designed weapons.

The current LRM mechanics result in a weapon which has wide swings between total uselessness, and totally crippling OP'ness, depending on situations that are often beyond the control of the shooter.

They really need an overhaul, and I think Paul needs to just simplify the weapons system so that it can actually be balanced for effective use in all situations.

[Demoncard]

MetalGandalph, on 16 July 2014 - 02:14 AM, said:

So i put her in tutorial and testing grounds with an lrm boat.
The first 2 games AFTER THE TUTORIAL havent been that good but in the third she made 700 dmg and 3 kills.

The real question here is, why didn't you indoctrinate your talented children into MWO sooner?

While lurms are easy mode for wracking up damage, they're actually not as effective as other weapons. A barrage of 40 lurms, half of which will hit the floor, and the other half hit every component, hardly deals enough damage to be anything other than a nuisance. When you take into account all the countermeasures, lurms are fairly miserable.

If you can't get inside the lurmer's range, perhaps because you're being blocked by nonlurmers, that's just teamplay on their part. Lurms are essentially artillery, and work best when someone else is taking the hits so that the lurm user may cower hundreds of meters away and click R1 every few seconds. Sad, but that's life. It's also not restricted to lurm users - direct fire snipers also do that, and it's a valid strat, although a disgusting one.

On the other hand, black clouds of hundreds of lurms exist. AMS is pretty easily overwhelmed, and buyers will often find themselves thinking "That label is misleading" as they bear the brunt of the swarm. Being spotted for a few seconds doesn't really justify being killed by lurms if you and your teammates are packing AMS, and while I don't think lurms are overpowered, AMS definitely needs to be more effective against them.

Also BAP, the command console, and community warfare.

[Sprouticus]

Roland, on 16 July 2014 - 05:05 AM, said:

LRM's have consistently been one of the worst weapons in the game ever since they added the requirement that you hold a lock through the entire flight.

And when I say "Bad" I don't mean simply ineffective, but rather, actually bad, poorly designed weapons.

The current LRM mechanics result in a weapon which has wide swings between total uselessness, and totally crippling OP'ness, depending on situations that are often beyond the control of the shooter.

They really need an overhaul, and I think Paul needs to just simplify the weapons system so that it can actually be balanced for effective use in all situations.

I agree Roland, but you have to admit that a lot of those factors ARE based upon the person being shot.

• Using cover is a factor the target can control
  
• Staying near an ECM mech is a facotr the target can control
  
• Bringing AMS is a factor the target can control.
  
• Being fast enough to move to cover when targeted is a factor the target can control.

Pilot skill is the big factor here. If you are good enough that cover is all you need, then dont bother with ECM and AMS. If not, then take ECM or AMS (or 2, or 3).

That having been said, the system as it exists DOES swing from OP to useless, primarily based upon target skill (and somewhat on the skill of the LRM mech).

How would you change the system to make it easier to balance across skill levels?

[BourbonFaucet]

BOOOHOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO sooper leet twitch shooting isn't the only thing in an online shooter, BOOOOHOOOOOOOHOOOOHOOOOOHOOOO!

Make the strategy and thinking go away mommy!

[The Great Unwashed]

Apparently the only constructive thing I'll see today is our building being renovated.

[Quxudica]

Techorse, on 16 July 2014 - 05:28 AM, said:

BOOOHOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO sooper leet twitch shooting isn't the only thing in an online shooter, BOOOOHOOOOOOOHOOOOHOOOOOHOOOO!

Make the strategy and thinking go away mommy!

Direct fire weapons require more thinking, considering you need to put yourself in actual danger to use them.

[CygnusX7]

If the LURMPilots are lacking skill then use your skills to figure out how beat them.
Mech Whiners Online.

[Kilo 40]

Quxudica, on 16 July 2014 - 05:39 AM, said:

Direct fire weapons require more thinking, considering you need to put yourself in actual danger to use them.

lol!

[Madw0lf]

Demoncard, on 16 July 2014 - 05:07 AM, said:

The real question here is, why didn't you indoctrinate your talented children into MWO sooner?

So much this. My 5 (almost 6) year old loves MW.

Dont worry, I only let him on testing grounds for now, Im sure thered be aLOT of TKs on my account otherwise

[Sable]

Running a LRM heavy loadout is a toss up in PUG play. But when i'm in a group it's fun to have a narcer run around and cause havok for their team. Then there are those times where the enemy has several ECM mechs stacked together and no narcs show up at all.

[Devilsfury]

LRMs are a double edged sword, like a lot have mentioned. They can be a weapon that can win you every single match or cost you every match. I do not believe LRMs are overpowered but I do agree that they need to be fixed. The easy fix for this is that in order to lock on to someone for LRM fire, you MUST have one or more of the following. 1- Directly line of site. 2- Unit must be tagged. 3- Unit must be Narc'd, 4- unit must be spotted and under UAV. No more of the 150k light that just runs and has eyes on you and then the LRM spam starts. Seriously, why does someone 900m away be able to lock onto a target that is not tag'd, narc, uav, LOS? Really stupid! This will clean up the massive LRM spam in PUG matches. In true competitive play, LRMs arent used very much because most prefer fast, in your face fights. in PUG runs, they are really OP. I think that I am literally averaging 700+ points and game and 3 kills while i drink my coffee and just press fire.

Edited by Devilsfury, 16 July 2014 - 06:14 AM.

[Demoncard]

Kilo 40, on 16 July 2014 - 05:43 AM, said:

lol!

Ignoring the fact that that contributed nothing of worth to the thread, -the thread has no worth, it's just more whining about lurms- you would've been better off writing 'Ha!' than "lol!" if saving time or trying to sound profound was important to you. Writing "lol" instead of 'ha!' in that instance defeats the purpose of the acronym.

He's not wrong. Sitting hundreds of meters behind the front lines firing lurms while your teammates take damage and hold the enemy isn't a particularly dangerous tactic. The only danger you face is from other lurms, snipers or overly ambitious pop tarts with long range weapons. You needn't ever expose yourself to the enemy with lurms. It's entirely possible that you can go an entire game without appearing on the enemy radar, or taking any damage. Direct fire weapons require that you have direct LoS on your target in order to deal damage, which almost always means that they can fire back at you, given the opportunity. They'll also lock onto you, and expose you to their team's lurms.

Madw0lf, on 16 July 2014 - 06:08 AM, said:

So much this. My 5 (almost 6) year old loves MW.

Dont worry, I only let him on testing grounds for now, Im sure thered be aLOT of TKs on my account otherwise

By the time CW comes around, your grandchildren will be playing in the testing grounds, and we will own flying cars. There's food for thought.

Edited by Demoncard, 16 July 2014 - 06:17 AM.

[LiGhtningFF13]

I hope that you have so much skill to use so called "modules" like Radar Deprivation or AMS Overlord. If not, make sure you can use nearby cover! Thats all, don't stay without cover.

[Bilbo]

Demoncard, on 16 July 2014 - 06:12 AM, said:

...
He's not wrong. Sitting hundreds of meters behind the front lines firing lurms while your teammates take damage and hold the enemy isn't a particularly dangerous tactic. The only danger you face is from other lurms, snipers or overly ambitious pop tarts with long range weapons. You needn't ever expose yourself to the enemy with lurms. It's entirely possible that you can go an entire game without appearing on the enemy radar, or taking any damage. Direct fire weapons require that you have direct LoS on your target in order to deal damage, which almost always means that they can fire back at you, given the opportunity. They'll also lock onto you, and expose you to their team's lurms.

So the LRM boat is a coward, but the entire opposing team is somehow courageous and chock full of skill for allowing him to go the entire match without any meaningful opposition?

[Demoncard]

Bilbo, on 16 July 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

So the LRM boat is a coward

Are you telling me it isn't?

Bilbo, on 16 July 2014 - 06:21 AM, said:

but the entire opposing team is somehow courageous and chock full of skill for allowing him to go the entire match without any meaningful opposition?

I should have mentioned somewhere that it'd be entirely their own fault for ignoring it. I thought it'd be obvious, given what I already wrote in this thread.

Edited by Demoncard, 16 July 2014 - 06:26 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Why even bring up this whole skill bullshit? Some mechs are designed to use LRMs. So these "no skill" people are simply saying, you shouldnt use #### mech....That is utterly stupid.

To make this game more diverse, you cannot have the attitude of "only XXX mechs should/can be played."