58 replies to this topic

[A banana in the tailpipe]

Disagree with the OP. The new group/solo queues have changed the nature of pug play, not clan mechs.

[Ace Selin]

Clan mechs kill quicker, due to the large amount of weaponry most carry. The inner sphere mechs to compete need to try to drag the game out longer, as they do damage spread over time. Never go face to face with any clan mech in an IS mech.

[AlexEss]

It is weird, Both my YLW and my HBK-4SP literally wreck clan mechs unless i play like a utter pancake. Ofc this might be because i do not charge in like a mad man.

Now here is another sad truth... I would wipe new players out with those two mechs too. I am pretty sure i oculd kit out my Locust and still wipe new players out. Clan mechs are pretty much a non-factor in that case.

Now i have to agree that i see a lot more Rambo play and a bit more murderballs but again this was a thing from time to time before clan mechs too. Most of it i would say is a placebo effect, things get attributed to clan mechs that are unrelated.

[Roughneck45]

lockwoodx, on 18 July 2014 - 04:28 AM, said:

Disagree with the OP. The new group/solo queues have changed the nature of pug play, not clan mechs.

This.

It almost feels like closed beta where you could carry the entire team because half the players had no idea what they were doing.

[SgtMagor]

Clan mechs have always been about hit the enemy fast and hard with a mass amount of firepower, yup yup the Clans surely changed the nature of the game, aint it great

[WarHippy]

Heisenbug, on 17 July 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

The change in pugs didn't happen immediately, but there's been a steady shift since the clan mechs showed up. I don't want to get into a debate about whether the clan mechs are OP (they are) or whether that's in line with cannon (it is). (...and who gives a crap about cannon? make a RP server for the cannon devotees...) If there was a context for IS vs. Clan, that might make sense, but given that the game is strictly PvP, the clan mechs have changed the balance and as such the nature of the game..

For someone not wanting to get into a debate about it you sure spent a lot of your post trying to proclaim that they are(they are not). A lot of people do care about cannon, and are pretty disappointed with how anemic the Clan mechs are.

By the way liking your own post is pretty tacky so I will just leave this here for you...
http://www.youtube.c...e&v=XsWo8apgLys

Edited by WarHippy, 18 July 2014 - 06:38 AM.

[Heisenbug]

Thanks all for the thoughtful input, there's a lot of really good information offered here. I'm truly reconsidering some of my points based on what ya'all said.

(To the English professor, thank you, now I know the difference between canon and cannon. Doesn't seem shallow or a waste of time at all to point that out.)

(...and to those apposed to me liking my own post, shee-it man, it's my 5th post, didn't even know you could do that... I'm sure you'll get over it.)

Again, thanks all.

Edited by Heisenbug, 19 July 2014 - 12:34 AM.

[Yokaiko]

Ace Selin, on 18 July 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Clan mechs kill quicker, due to the large amount of weaponry most carry. The inner sphere mechs to compete need to try to drag the game out longer, as they do damage spread over time. Never go face to face with any clan mech in an IS mech.

Incorrect IS mechs focus damage a LOT better than clan mechs, hence clans need to pull it into a running battle, not a peek-a-boo session.

[XX Sulla XX]

Heisenbug also keep in mind the huge changes to the MM at about the same time Clans came out.

[Shiara]

Interesting thread. I can't really comment just now as I had a very long hiatus before taking up the game again recently. I like the Clan mechs...and I have a Madcat (Timberwolf) mainly because I have loved that one ever since it appeared originally..and because I can't have an actual Warhammer. LOL I play mostly my Catapults...and since I am part of no group, I play randoms or..I guess you call them PUGs...but I have not noted (as of yet) any real imbalances per se...I think it is more skill driven now. Says the gal who is really poor at it just now. I've seen Clan mechs get taken apart just as often as IS mechs so far.

Going to take longer than I thought to get back up to speed.

[OneEyed Jack]

Heisenbug, on 17 July 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

I don't want to get into a debate about whether the clan mechs are OP (they are) or whether that's in line with cannon (it is). (...and who gives a crap about cannon?

[DaZur]

The PUG environment will ebb and flow just like the META with every injection of new content and or shifts in the play mechanics...

One does not have to like the direction something shifts but the reality is it's inevitable and unavoidable.

I'm more perplexed by anyones premise that it should stay stagnant?

[xe N on]

People realizied what competetive groups long have found out. Regarding pinpoint damage, IS mech outclass clan mechs. You cannot play clan mechs like pinpoint IS mechs, if you do, you are at severe disadvantage.

However, with exception of the dire whale all clan mechs are build to be fast and agile and have superior DPS to IS machines. Using this advantage and push into the enemy, all the fancy PPC-builds are screwed.

[Monkey Lover]

Petard, on 18 July 2014 - 02:40 AM, said:

SERIOUSLY?...Liking your own post, OP?...That's pretty lame, mate....

ya Whats up with that? Kind of sad...

Edited by Monkey Lover, 19 July 2014 - 05:28 AM.

[KuroNyra]

Monkey Lover, on 19 July 2014 - 05:26 AM, said:

ya Whats up with that? Kind of sad...

It's technicly like licking your own balls.

But I'm sur Monkey's usually do that!





*hide in his Dire Wolf*

Edited by KuroNyra, 19 July 2014 - 06:12 AM.

[SolasTau]

Considering how steam roll Clans are in table top, they've done wonders keeping Clans and IS as close together as they have. Personally, I prefer IS *firing characteristics* to Clan firing characteristics, but I'm not a fan of of not being able to use those beautiful Clan LRM20 racks on my IS mechs. ...I'm on the fence about Clan Pulse Lasers. They are both better and worse than their IS counterparts in ways I did not expect.

[Black Ivan]

The Clans are not the problem. The match maker should select through experience and ECM / Equip,ment availability and put people with comparable skill together.

[Pjwned]

Heisenbug, on 17 July 2014 - 11:09 PM, said:

- The offense vs. defense ratio (damage output vs. armor and speed) before the clan encouraged cooperation. Now, the overwhelming firepower of the clan mechs have overturned that dynamic. Pug-wise, it's become more of a strait shooter than a cooperative strategy game. Increasingly people are just rushing into combat.

I'm not really seeing how clans changed that.

Quote

- The current state of the game is discurraging new players. Nevermind aiming and piloting skills, there's a learning curve to tactics. It took me a hundred matches to realize that it wasn't about my skills, it was about how I employed them. But now the noobs stuck in IS mechs are getting vaporized so quickly that they're not learning anything. Then they get frustrated and they stop playing.

New players getting vaporized and discouraged is due to more than just clan mechs, though I think there is somewhat of a point to that.

Quote

- There used to be a lot of zero$ players. While this might not have helped Piranha much, it did contribute to a richer player base. But the clan mechs are increasingly discuraging anyone stuck in an IS mech from playing. Now it seems, more and more, that matches are limiting to the pay players (ie, clan mechs). Generally speaking, if you don't want to spend the money, it's time to move on to another game.

Not really, there are still a number of reasons to use IS mechs, especially if you want to play a light that goes more than 110 KPH or a fast medium with jumpjets.

Edited by Pjwned, 20 July 2014 - 01:23 AM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

DaZur, on 19 July 2014 - 05:11 AM, said:

The PUG environment will ebb and flow just like the META with every injection of new content and or shifts in the play mechanics...

One does not have to like the direction something shifts but the reality is it's inevitable and unavoidable.

I'm more perplexed by anyones premise that it should stay stagnant?

Indeed. Pugs are the dynamic aspect of MWO for sure, while the meta only changes when it is forced to because people don't like fixing things that aren't broken. It all boils down to the attitude of the players imo. Even the meta can be tolerable and engaging so long as upper tier players create a fun and welcoming environment for those that wish to challenge/participate in it, which was hardly the case before June.

Back when there was only one queue, those overly competitive players thought they could just trash random joes thinking there was an unlimited pool of anonymous "nobodies" to jerk around and it almost put this game on life support but with the advent of the group queue they're forced to see the same faces more often than not which has created a closer, more civil community imo. The pug queue now serves its intended purpose of ad-hoc matches for simplistic grinding that don't require needing to defend one's reputation should they drop against more well known faces. That's reserved for the group queue where the genuine competition should remain and other than small groups of 2-4 players complaining because they don't understand what a "group queue" is, I think things have worked out rather well.

Edited by lockwoodx, 20 July 2014 - 02:46 AM.

[Slackjawlocal]

I been playing about a week now. Just finnishing the Jenner elite skills tree. What i notice most is 9 times out 10 clan mech last a lot longer in a fight. I have only seen a couple IS mech like the Atlas or sometimes a victory step out and go toe to toe with a clan mech. Where you will see timber wolfs and Dire wolves stand out in the open and take hits as they stip your mech of weapons and armor.

Its not often you will see a clan mech tuck tail and run unless hes way out numbered.