97 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

terrycloth, on 18 July 2014 - 02:10 PM, said:

Maybe have a tonnage limit on respawns for each team? And force all the respawns to use (c) mechs. Randomly determined (c) mechs.

you're never
ever
EVEEEEEEER
going to get the "hardcore btech" crowd to support a respawn mechanic. it's just not going to happen.

Instead of suggesting respawns I think you'd get a lot more support by suggesting the cancelled dropship mode and/or warthunder's system.
You have xx planes, you get shot down, you grab your next plane (they also have a special option that you can purchase with premium currency that allows you to take the same plane twice, but only twice, in the same match) and go at it again. Not a respawn because it forces you to take more than one mech and diversifies what you see in the field.

They also offer those than don't like the respawn mechanic and aspect a mode that allows them to play without respawns. T
They have 3 basic modes
arcade
realistic
simulator

can you imagine how much better the community would be at getting along if PGI had done something like that? Instead of lumping all the different types of players into the same game mode with no options. So hardcore, competitive, simulator, casual, solo, premade, and pug all have to play the game the same way alongside one another.

[Tynan]

Stomps are common and will be common for the same reason they always have been, and that's the effect of force multiplication. You get one or two morons on your team who run out and die, and at that point you have two to three mechs shooting at you instead of one. You'll drop faster without returning as much fire, which makes it that much harder for what's left of your team to catch up. On top of that, if the enemy team has more mechs, the injured ones have fresh mechs to hide behind, spreading the damage.

Even if you're better than they are, you need to be a LOT better to catch up. The effect is that, unless the teams are actually *very* close in skill, games are likely to end in "stomps." 12-6 is usually a close match (until the closing seconds, anyway). Anything over that is usually a very close match.

[Fomites]

It turns out that random groups are pretty random.

The good news is that your next random group comes with a 50% chance of being better than your last random group.

Keep calm and carry on.

[Mudhutwarrior]

The majority of stomps in solo are just bad team play but then there are synch drops. I know the usual crowd will say otherwise but its obvious when they tell you in match which is occurring more often now. If PGI does what is needed and either brings in voip or starts punishing the offenders things will improve.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 18 July 2014 - 02:36 PM, said:

The majority of stomps in solo are just bad team play but then there are synch drops. I know the usual crowd will say otherwise but its obvious when they tell you in match which is occurring more often now. If PGI does what is needed and either brings in voip or starts punishing the offenders things will improve.

Coordination will always beat a herd of cats thought Mud.

[Triordinant]

Sandpit, on 18 July 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

unfortunately that, apparently, isn't the case for others though. Roflstomps are still very prevalent. Removing groups didn't solve the issue. I have no doubts it helped a bit, that's not the matter at hand.

Removing groups helped A LOT. From 90-95% stomps before (as winner or loser), I get 20-25% stomps now when I play in the solo queue. A BIG improvement. Well worth it.

Edited by Triordinant, 18 July 2014 - 02:49 PM.

[Karamarka]

Haxburch, on 18 July 2014 - 04:29 AM, said:

Stomps in Solo chain ongly happen now if one team is total stupid like hell , some disco , some are total new to the game . Evrybody have to deal with this , s h i t  is happen. Most Stomps comes from stupid comunities you cant balance idiots.
I mean i could rage evry day , just yesterday i make 4 kills almost solo , 770DMG , drive my Atlas DDC to cover the team. Still match lost BECAUSE FULL IDIOTS wich not even should be allowed to play this game. Are so stupid to move a mech or to aim any s h i t ! This why stomps happen!

You shouldn't have to deal with "new to the game" people (Its why the Elo system sucks). When i play SC2 and CS:GO at high level, i never get noobs on my team because of my rank. Everyone is playing LEGIT and as best to their ability because they want to win - not because they are "new to the game" - this is why the MWO matchmaker/Elo system is wrong. Pros carrying noobs and praying that your team has less noobs than the enemy team

Edited by Karamarka, 18 July 2014 - 02:58 PM.

[Sandpit]

Triordinant, on 18 July 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

Removing groups helped A LOT. From 90-95% stomps before (as winner or loser), I get 20-25% stomps now when I play in the solo queue. A BIG improvement. Well worth it.

Again, I have no doubts that it helped, the problem is not everyone is experiencing that big of a difference.

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

Coordination will always beat a herd of cats thought Mud.

i liked the "punishing offenders" part lol
punish people for.............? smh

[Alex Warden]

Sandpit, on 18 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

Instead of suggesting respawns I think you'd get a lot more support by suggesting the cancelled dropship mode and/or warthunder's system.

yea, i could live with that... tbh i like how Warthunder handles it... on the other hand, ppl tend to play even more stupid when they get to use more than one mech in a match...

so for dropship mode , i´d suggest rounds of at least 20 or more minutes, so that you are still in danger to just run out of mechs... but since mechs die insanely fast nowadays, it might actually be a nice addition...

Edited by Alex Warden, 18 July 2014 - 09:30 PM.

[Sandpit]

Alex Warden, on 18 July 2014 - 09:29 PM, said:

yea, i could live with that... tbh i like how Warthunder handles it... on the other hand, ppl tend to play even more stupid when they get to use more than one mech in a match...

so for dropship mode , i´d suggest rounds of at least 20 or more minutes, so that you are still in danger to just run out of mechs... but since mechs die insanely fast nowadays, it might actually be a nice addition...

but dropship mode was cancelled

[SolCrusher]

I just want an option to join the group queue as a solo player. I miss seeing 4 mans on my side when I'm solo puggin' at least then I knew I could tag along with them and see some sort of game plan.

[Ursh]

The luck is in the MM. If the MM decides you can carry several terrible or new players, then you're going to be in for a rough match.

If the MM decides there's enough terribles/new/competent/veteran guys to spread between two teams, you get a pretty good match.

[Kjudoon]

Shadow Magnet, on 18 July 2014 - 03:15 AM, said:

Those total/almost total stomps surely got less common with the recent MM changes. But still, these stomps happen (talking about solo queue here) and I think everyone agrees that they are a less desireable experience for both teams.

So I had this (most likely very stupid) idea:

Reinforcements!

When a team is having 6 (or 8) more kills than the enemy team, respawn 4-6 of the dead players, fully rearmed/repared - just one time per match, per team. Or possibly allow completely new players to enter the match as reinforcements.

There are some problems that need to be solved, like where do you spawn those mechs, which mechs to select for the respawn, how much to increase game match time and so on.

Reinforcements in the form of new players? Sure. I think it could be a great tactic to have the person with a command console call in a reinforcement unit equal to their losses... ONCE, but they're all new pilots who were not in the original drop.

In the form of respawn? No way... Nuh uh. No frelling way. One of the only things that keeps stupid play from getting too out of control here IS the one life aspect. I dont need the war thunder "I crash into them with my first two crap planes, and keep my heavy hitters till the end of the match and tear everyone up" tactic.

Pass.

[GunnyKintaro 01]

SolCrusher, on 18 July 2014 - 10:19 PM, said:

I just want an option to join the group queue as a solo player. I miss seeing 4 mans on my side when I'm solo puggin' at least then I knew I could tag along with them and see some sort of game plan.

Them days are gone !!!

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Mavairo, on 18 July 2014 - 04:33 AM, said:

Turns out it wasn't us Evil Premades causing the stomps. As an exclusive Group Que player, stomps are pretty damn rare in the group que in my experience.

Hopefully the Solo Que will FINALLY force members of Team Derp to look into the real reasons they lose matches so badly...

Seriously? 90% of the stomps I encounter (well before last patch) were exclusive to the group queue. I also never play in groups larger than 2 which is a SEVERE disadvantage in the group queue ( i think 2 mans should have the option to not drop in groups idc if premium time has to be required by the group lead lol) and typically do near top damage in solo.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Kjudoon, on 18 July 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Reinforcements in the form of new players? Sure. I think it could be a great tactic to have the person with a command console call in a reinforcement unit equal to their losses... ONCE, but they're all new pilots who were not in the original drop.

In the form of respawn? No way... Nuh uh. No frelling way. One of the only things that keeps stupid play from getting too out of control here IS the one life aspect. I dont need the war thunder "I crash into them with my first two crap planes, and keep my heavy hitters till the end of the match and tear everyone up" tactic.

Pass.

Boy, you sure know the best way to suck fun out of a game for everyone but you. Lrms supporter AND refuse to allow any game mode to have respawning, which would cut down insanely on the number of "stomps" in the game, not to mention bring in new players that may not like whole 1 life per game thing. It would also allow for actually meaningful objective because "kill everybody" isn't ALWAYS the primary win condition. Pretend for a minute that conquest mode had 4 lives per person, guess how many people will break away from the death ball because the death ball will ALWAYS lose on points. Also it takes nothing away from you or people who enjoy the game like you (assuming the game mode is ADDED and not changing an existing mode) because there will still be plenty of people that enjoy those modes. It only adds variety and longetivity. Hell you could even make it so a pilot much be able to eject from his/her mech before it is destroyed in order to use his extra "lives." (of course this could be a real issue for light mechs, which is already a low playerbase atm,that have a habit of getting instantly gibbed)

Sandpit, on 18 July 2014 - 02:29 PM, said:

you're never
ever
EVEEEEEEER
going to get the "hardcore btech" crowd to support a respawn mechanic. it's just not going to happen.

Instead of suggesting respawns I think you'd get a lot more support by suggesting the cancelled dropship mode and/or warthunder's system.
You have xx planes, you get shot down, you grab your next plane (they also have a special option that you can purchase with premium currency that allows you to take the same plane twice, but only twice, in the same match) and go at it again. Not a respawn because it forces you to take more than one mech and diversifies what you see in the field.

They also offer those than don't like the respawn mechanic and aspect a mode that allows them to play without respawns. T
They have 3 basic modes
arcade
realistic
simulator

can you imagine how much better the community would be at getting along if PGI had done something like that? Instead of lumping all the different types of players into the same game mode with no options. So hardcore, competitive, simulator, casual, solo, premade, and pug all have to play the game the same way alongside one another.

This is more like it. Don't force everyone to play your way, let people have options and see if that doesn't draw in more players. The only issue i have with the dropship mode is with clan mechs you could basically have the same mech loadout on every variant of a chassis. Though I suppose the same is true for buying multiple copies of any mech, which is possible if i am not mistaken.

Edited by Tw1stedMonkey, 18 July 2014 - 10:57 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Ursh, on 18 July 2014 - 10:33 PM, said:

The luck is in the MM. If the MM decides you can carry several terrible or new players, then you're going to be in for a rough match.

If the MM decides there's enough terribles/new/competent/veteran guys to spread between two teams, you get a pretty good match.

I watched a guy do 1400 damage with 7(!) Kills and lose....Tue MM is a fickle *****.

Tw1stedMonkey, on 18 July 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Boy, you sure know the best way to suck fun out of a game for everyone but you. Lrms supporter AND refuse to allow any game mode to have respawning, which would cut down insanely on the number of "stomps" in the game, not to mention bring in new players that may not like whole 1 life per game thing. It would also allow for actually meaningful objective because "kill everybody" isn't ALWAYS the primary win condition. Pretend for a minute that conquest mode had 4 lives per person, guess how many people will break away from the death ball because the death ball will ALWAYS lose on points. Also it takes nothing away from you or people who enjoy the game like you (assuming the game mode is ADDED and not changing an existing mode) because there will still be plenty of people that enjoy those modes. It only adds variety and longetivity. Hell you could even make it so a pilot much be able to eject from his/her mech before it is destroyed in order to use his extra "lives." (of course this could be a real issue for light mechs, which is already a low playerbase atm,that have a habit of getting instantly gibbed)

To complicated.

[Kjudoon]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 18 July 2014 - 10:52 PM, said:

Boy, you sure know the best way to suck fun out of a game for everyone but you. Lrms supporter AND refuse to allow any game mode to have respawning, which would cut down insanely on the number of "stomps" in the game, not to mention bring in new players that may not like whole 1 life per game thing. It would also allow for actually meaningful objective because "kill everybody" isn't ALWAYS the primary win condition. Pretend for a minute that conquest mode had 4 lives per person, guess how many people will break away from the death ball because the death ball will ALWAYS lose on points. Also it takes nothing away from you or people who enjoy the game like you (assuming the game mode is ADDED and not changing an existing mode) because there will still be plenty of people that enjoy those modes. It only adds variety and longetivity. Hell you could even make it so a pilot much be able to eject from his/her mech before it is destroyed in order to use his extra "lives." (of course this could be a real issue for light mechs, which is already a low playerbase atm,that have a habit of getting instantly gibbed)

I fail to see the fun I sucked out.

Respawn against superior opponents with often superior builds and probably superior tactical communication increases fun how? You get respawn, the same jerks roflstomping you will just lather, rinse, repeat. Now add to this the suicide punks who make mechs designed to basically troll people... they're not going to be a picnic either.

I'm just warning you that it would be coming and I'd be backing away from that and locking the door behind.

Of course, if you want an 'opt out' function of it you double the necessary queues needed to feed that beast and I don't know if we have the player base to support it at this time.

Edited by Kjudoon, 18 July 2014 - 11:03 PM.

[Tw1stedMonkey]

Kjudoon, on 18 July 2014 - 11:01 PM, said:

I fail to see the fun I sucked out.

Respawn against superior opponents with often superior builds and probably superior tactical communication increases fun how? You get respawn, the same jerks roflstomping you will just lather, rinse, repeat. Now add to this the suicide punks who make mechs designed to basically troll people... they're not going to be a picnic either.

I'm just warning you that it would be coming and I'd be backing away from that and locking the door behind.

Of course, if you want an 'opt out' function of it you double the necessary queues needed to feed that beast and I don't know if we have the player base to support it at this time.

Ever heard of momentum? pretty self-explanatory. It will also allow people to take risks without having to sit out the rest of the battle for one bad mistake/unlucky move. It could possibly break up the deathball mentality in PUGs and cause objectives to become relevant again. I still wish MWO had a game mode like MW:LL, something to make the battlefield feell more alive and matter more than just what you are looking at when you pop back into cover. Make it so there are bases to scout out and capture over a more significant theater of war, which isn't possible without some reinforcement or repair and rearm points.

[Kjudoon]

Tw1stedMonkey, on 18 July 2014 - 11:17 PM, said:

Ever heard of momentum? pretty self-explanatory. It will also allow people to take risks without having to sit out the rest of the battle for one bad mistake/unlucky move. It could possibly break up the deathball mentality in PUGs and cause objectives to become relevant again. I still wish MWO had a game mode like MW:LL, something to make the battlefield feell more alive and matter more than just what you are looking at when you pop back into cover. Make it so there are bases to scout out and capture over a more significant theater of war, which isn't possible without some reinforcement or repair and rearm points.

I would go along with 'rearm/repair' points, sure. You get there alive, and then spend 30 seconds getting minor repairs to armor and reloads, no replaced weapons, modules or limbs.

But no, I don't agree with your conclusions. Too much Hawken for my tastes. It will not break the deathball mentality, it'd only make it a repeater.

Bigger maps with objectives and bases that DID something, absolutely. I would have no interest in limited or unlimited respawn. It only fosters bad gameplay. I've played War Thunder and didn't like it there either.