301 replies to this topic

[Thunder Child]

Okay, just adding my 2 cents here. From where I sit, the Timberwolf is quite possibly the only Clan Mech that could be classed as OP.
My Dakkawhale has an average K/D, across all three Variants, of 1.08. As long as you are directly in front of me, and you don't have a high FLD, I will Burst you to death.
My Summoner, across all three variants, has a K/D of 1.25. My B Variant is an SRM Brawler, and my strongest performer. The Prime is a terrible waste of space, and I have yet to find a build that works. My D is a dual PPC Jumpsniper.
My Nova, across all three variants has a K/D of 0.74. I have yet to survive a match, without missing both arms, and usually a leg as well. The legs on that thing vanish as soon as something looks at it.
My Kitfox, has a K/D of 1.25 across all three Variants. The Prime at 0.26, and the D at 0.5. My S is the Redeemer, with Dual PPC and ECM, at a K/D of 3.

Since the Clans have launched, my DDC is currently sitting at 2.10. My Jagers are sitting between 2 and 4. My Mediums, admittedly are suffering, but archived stats show that they were doing worse before the Clans hit. And my non-Firestarter lights are finally in positive K/Ds.

TL:DR, for a steering wheel underhive like myself, Clans are NOT OP. They are just different, and take getting used to.

[Wolfways]

Roland, on 19 July 2014 - 03:42 PM, said:

When you are playing in a closed beta you aren't competing against people who are not in the closed beta. Derp.

But i'm competing against players who bought mechs, and get to level faster. I never saw that as P2W, just P2save time. Like pay to play early.

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Some of the clan mechs most certainly are stronger than their IS counterparts.

Depends on the build (and mostly the player), like all mechs.

[Roland]

Wolfways, on 19 July 2014 - 03:48 PM, said:

But i'm competing against players who bought mechs, and get to level faster. I never saw that as P2W, just P2save time. Like pay to play early.


Depends on the build (and mostly the player), like all mechs.

You seem to have already forgotten your own example. You asked whether paying to play in a closed beta was p2w. Clearly it is not, since you are only competing against other players who have done the same. Derp.

Regarding clan balance, you determine the strength of a mech based on its maximum potential.

The mad cat is better than any other heavy in the game currently.

[Thunder Child]

Roland, on 19 July 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

You seem to have already forgotten your own example. You asked whether paying to play in a closed beta was p2w. Clearly it is not, since you are only competing against other players who have done the same. Derp.

Regarding clan balance, you determine the strength of a mech based on its maximum potential.

The mad cat is better than any other heavy in the game currently.

QFT, the part about the Madcat. Yes, it has it's weaknesses, but, compared to every other heavy currently in the game, this thing is the best of them.

I also think the Stormcrow is a good solid chassis. Maybe not QUITE P2W, but solid.

I am not convinced on any of the others being P2W, however. They all have their disadvantages. The Summoner, I believe is only just above the Dragon, in terms of capability, due to fixed engine and useless Jump Jets. It doesn't even have the Pod Space to mount a decent armament.

[Wolfways]

Roland, on 19 July 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

You seem to have already forgotten your own example. You asked whether paying to play in a closed beta was p2w. Clearly it is not, since you are only competing against other players who have done the same. Derp.

My point, which you seem to be missing, is that founders had no advantage except they got some extra stuff...just like clans get extra stuff (different style mech and warhorns).

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Regarding clan balance, you determine the strength of a mech based on its maximum potential.

The mad cat is better than any other heavy in the game currently.

I don't see 4+ AC's on a Timber Wolf and my JM6-S rips them apart nicely, and is by far the easiest mech i've found to use.

Edited by Wolfways, 19 July 2014 - 04:08 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Wolfways, on 19 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

I don't see 4+ AC's on a Timber Wolf and my JM6-S rips them apart nicely.

Doesnt have close to the space.

[Wolfways]

Yokaiko, on 19 July 2014 - 04:08 PM, said:

Doesnt have close to the space.

Exactly. I call that a big disadvantage.

[Vandril]

Chemie, on 19 July 2014 - 07:37 AM, said:

you were against 9 IS and 3 clans...hardly proves anything

My poor Chemie, but I count 7 Clan and 5 IS. SCR-C , TBR-S (x2) .TRB-C (x2), NVA-Prime(i) and a DWF-B. Not to mention that is some of the highest alpha builds from the Clans.

[HBizzle]

L2PTFG = Learn To Play The F'ing Game.


Jesus Christ can people spend some time learning to play the game we have as opposed to trying to play the game the way they want it to be?

Go invest some money in the entertainment product you are playing for free if you want things to change, otherwise I will enjoy not only subsidizing the whiners entertainment, but also destroying them on the battlefield due to their own incompetence at playing the game.


KTHNXBYE

[Wolfways]

HBizzle, on 19 July 2014 - 04:14 PM, said:

L2PTFG = Learn To Play The F'ing Game.

But that involves....effort!

[Roland]

Wolfways, on 19 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

My point, which you seem to be missing, is that founders had no advantage except they got some extra stuff...just like clans get extra stuff (different style mech and warhorns).

Uh, except that if you buy the clans then you get to play the clan mechs, whereas even if you weren't a founder you got to play exactly those same mechs. You don't seem to have a coherent point here.

Wolfways, on 19 July 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

I don't see 4+ AC's on a Timber Wolf and my JM6-S rips them apart nicely, and is by far the easiest mech i've found to use.

A mad cat doesn't need ACS, when it can pack two erppcs, a Gauss, jumpjets, and move at 90kph.

Edited by Roland, 19 July 2014 - 04:20 PM.

[Wolfways]

Roland, on 19 July 2014 - 04:20 PM, said:

Uh, except that if you buy the clans then you get to play the clan mechs, whereas even if you weren't a founder you got to play exactly those same mechs. You don't seem to have a coherent point here.

I got to play against mechs which were not OP compared to my mechs. Just like playing IS vs. clan mechs now.

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A mad cat doesn't need ACS, when it can pack two erppcs, a Gauss, jumpjets, and move at 90kph.

Ah poptart. They have never bothered me really. Usually easy to kill at short range, and i'm really not bothered by a 35 point alpha (who cares about the ERPPC spread damage?)
Get back to me when people start complaining about the Timber Wolf going 1 v. 4 against a fresh lance of heavy/assault and winning.

[Impyrium]

I have an idea. How about these 'returning players' learn to use a forum and bother to check through the recent posts before posting, therefore avoiding posting the exact freaking thing that we've had to put up with since Clan release day?

[Roland]

Wolfways, on 19 July 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

I got to play against mechs which were not OP compared to my mechs. Just like playing IS vs. clan mechs now.

Uh.. no.
Founders mechs were literally the exact same mechs available to non-founders. They weren't even unique variants. They were, literally, the exact same variants.

This is not the case with clan mechs. Clan mechs are totally different mechs. If you purchase them, then you are able to play those mechs against players who do not have access to them at all.

You're now trying to just handwave this away by making the unsubstantiated claim that they are perfectly balanced against IS mechs. This is absurd on its face, given the fact that PGI wasn't even able to make the IS mechs all balanced against each other.

Wolfways, on 19 July 2014 - 04:26 PM, said:

Ah poptart. They have never bothered me really. Usually easy to kill at short range, and i'm really not bothered by a 35 point alpha (who cares about the ERPPC spread damage?)
Get back to me when people start complaining about the Timber Wolf going 1 v. 4 against a fresh lance of heavy/assault and winning.

Ah, so now you are setting the bar for P2W to be that it only maters if a single heavy mech is capable to singlehandedly destroying 4 fresh assault mechs.

Yeah dude. You are totally making sense now, and don't at all sound ridiculous.

Edited by Roland, 19 July 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[Wolfways]

Roland, on 19 July 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

[/size]
Uh.. no.
Founders mechs were literally the exact same mechs available to non-founders. They weren't even unique variants. They were, literally, the exact same variants.

This is not the case with clan mechs. Clan mechs are totally different mechs. If you purchase them, then you are able to play those mechs against players who do not have access to them at all.

You're now trying to just handwave this away by making the unsubstantiated claim that they are perfectly balanced against IS mechs. This is absurd on its face, given the fact that PGI wasn't even able to make the IS mechs all balanced against each other.

I'm not saying they are completely balanced. Nothing in the game is, or will ever be. But they certainly are not OP imo.

Quote

Ah, so now you are setting the bar for P2W to be that it only maters if a single heavy mech is capable to singlehandedly destroying 4 fresh assault mechs.

Yeah dude. You are totally making sense now, and don't at all sound ridiculous.

I did it in a CPLT-K2 in closed beta, and have done it a few times since then in my JM6-S. Those mechs are free so obviously not P2W. Why shouldn't i set the bar there? You set it at a poptart.

It's all just opinion.

[beerandasmoke]

Pinpoint dmg allowing low exposure time trumps just about any clanmech except the timberwolf which uses it effectively as well. They are not that hard too kill you just have to play too your strengths when in an IS mech. I just took my dual gauss firebrand out for a stroll. 8 kills in three games including a 4 kill game on mordor. Guess what those mechs were? 2 direwolfs, 1 timberwolf, and a kitfox. Using my high mounted weapon points i was able to fire down the ramps in the caldera while they were unable to fire effectively at me due to their lowslung hardpoints. You just have to play to their weaknesses while maximizing your strengths.

Yes I own all the clanmechs and there are some effective builds for them just like there are for certain IS mechs. This is how it should be. If your losing then most likely you are making the same mistakes over and over and not changing your playstyle to deal with them.

I dont see what the point of this argument is anyways since they will be available for cbills. You simply have to be patient if you dont want to invest. I dont think that is too much too ask since people like me fund the game so you can play it for free.

[Roland]

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I'm not saying they are completely balanced. Nothing in the game is, or will ever be. But they certainly are not OP imo.

I think I would tend to agree with this. Even with the TW being the best heavy in the game, this in itself is not indicative of a problem. Some heavy chassis is going to be the best in the game.

However, when the best chassis is behind a payway, then that makes it P2W.

Quote

I did it in a CPLT-K2 in closed beta, and have done it a few times since then in my JM6-S. Those mechs are free so obviously not P2W. Why shouldn't i set the bar there? You set it at a poptart.
It's all just opinion.

And I've done it in a Timberwolf. I've killed half the enemy team by myself with it. That in itself is not the minimum threshold for identifying an advantage though.

A mech can constitute an advantage even if it can't guarantee a victory for the pilot.

[Sephlock]

Roland, on 19 July 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

I think I would tend to agree with this. Even with the TW being the best heavy in the game, this in itself is not indicative of a problem. Some heavy chassis is going to be the best in the game.

However, when the best chassis is behind a payway, then that makes it P2W.

So the DS was P2W right?

[Roland]

Sephlock, on 19 July 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

So the DS was P2W right?

Yes, clearly.

[jozkhan]

BoomDog is right - the ninja matchmaking by PGI of clan vs IS speaks volumes about what is going to happen next and their own concerns regarding Clan Mechs and also the current match maker issues.

As with many MMOs and online games, new pay only items are often released in OP state, to encorage sales of said items and then gently nerf cycled in favor of the next new items. It's a business model which anyone who plays games like League of Legends knows very well. Heck it's not even the first time it's happened in MWO. You can be sure a significant amount of the clan sales have been since they were released into the game with players saying 'well if you cant beat them, join them'

Clan vs IS matchmaking is gonna be railroaded into the game as fast as they can do it, to take out some of the sting. If this match making isnt put in really soon, there will be almost no IS mechs playing before too long - especially once they are available for CBills.

The ironic thing is it's gonna be seen as a community warfare delivery when really its just a band aid to the match maker.