372 replies to this topic

[Mercules]

Wolfways, on 22 July 2014 - 01:22 PM, said:

If you don't like the rewards from playing lights then you tell PGI to fix it. You don't tell them to penalize other players by not letting them play as often.

You are not being penalized, you are being "Incentizised" to play lights, they have shorter wait times.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Wouldn't it be nice when you Solo Queue as a Light you have better odds at being partnered with people in higher Elo brackets? That right there would take a lot of frustration out of piloting Lights in today's MM.

On the flip side, if you have a brainfart and die like a total idiot, then your loss wouldn't hit your team as hard.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 22 July 2014 - 08:36 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

Mercules, on 22 July 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

You are not being penalized, you are being "Incentizised" to play lights, they have shorter wait times.

I haven't noticed much difference in wait times, maybe that's elo related, I don't know.
What I do know is that it pays to have a few browser tabs open while playing MWO, regardless of my current weight class or which queue I'm in.

[Widowmaker1981]

Roland, on 21 July 2014 - 04:05 PM, said:

No, he's bad.

Honestly, the biggest danger to lights at this point has kind of shifted to clan lasers, since they can start whittling away your armor from across the map, and it takes virtually no actual skill to hit you with them.

Anyone who complains about light mechs though, is bad. They are crazy weak at this point, which is why they only constitute 10% of mechs played at any given time.

yes dude, im terrible at the game, and cant kill lights. OR, you could read what i actually said, which is that i hate them because they dont feel like mechs too me, they feel more like something out of unreal tournament.

Edit: - In fairness, i also dislike them because shooting them adds very little to total dmg, due to many more misses, and less armour to go through, lower dmg for me, hurts my epeen. not why im posting though.

Stats below to prove that im not exactly scrub tier (though i make no claim to be top tier either) - about 85% solo, group drops all random pick up groups in comstar teamspeak (no premades, no practising, as i dont have time for that)
edited out a bunch of mechs with hardly any drops to make the screen less spammy

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 23 July 2014 - 03:32 AM.

[Satan n stuff]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 July 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

they dont feel like mechs too me, they feel more like something out of unreal tournament.

This game is nothing like Unreal Tournament, UT has had role warfare since 2004, we're still waiting for it.

[Wolfways]

Mercules, on 22 July 2014 - 07:17 PM, said:

You are not being penalized, you are being "Incentizised" to play lights, they have shorter wait times.

It doesn't matter what words you use. If you are not willing to play something you don't like you are punished for it by having to wait longer. Not everyone likes all weight classes.

[Trauglodyte]

I don't think that PGI is punishing players for taking Light mechs. What they're doing is simply setting the game in motion directly opposite said players. And, they're doing this by way of making it harder to achieve the same goals as players running heavier mechs. Mediums aren't hard to hit and carry much less weaponry than Heavies and Assaults. Lights are harder to hit but can't carry anything and don't have a given role in the game. To quote Al Pacino from "Devil's Advocate": Look, but don’t touch. Touch, but don’t taste. Taste, don’t swallow.

What really makes this bad is the fact that the changes to SRMs, the release of the Clans, and the adjustments to JJs pretty much nailed the coffin on Light mech viability. You could, as a Jenner/Firestarter pilot or, to a point, a Spider pilot, wreak havoc on a team flying and zipping in and out of the enemy lines. But, the JJ changes sort of nixed some of that and the large amounts of weaponry on the Clan mechs finished off what the weapon/equipment change didn't. That leaves you with needing to take a long eyed view of the game and that is fine. Sadly, though, there isn't much in the way of power in sitting in the back of a formation pointing a TAG at some mechs. And there is even less if your teammates don't bother taking LRMs. This goes back to my point of running the LOLcust with an ER Lrg Laser or even a PPC and just trying to do what I can do cause I can run both of those with TAG without really impacting my speed or survivability (I'm in a Locust so does 1 point of armor on my head or arms really matter?) and I at least have the opportunity to do something. The salt in the wound, though, is that I'm not getting compensated for doing good amounts of damage in the lowest tonnage mech in the game. I'm 5 tons shy of a protomech, for God's sake.

The last sentence leads me to what is really missing: Role Warfare and a weight scaling reward factor. The first part has bee needed forever because the game cannot survive, long term, as rock'em sock'em robots. It is boring and simply not fun and I've only been doing it for 2 years now. The last part, though, is what is really needed because a 20 ton mech and a 100 ton mech doing the same amount of damage, kills, assists, etc getting paid the exact same way is pathetic.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 23 July 2014 - 10:12 AM.

[Wolfways]

Trauglodyte, on 23 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

The last part, though, is what is really needed because a 20 ton mech and a 100 ton mech doing the same amount of damage, kills, assists, etc getting paid the exact same way is pathetic.

I completely disagree with this. All mechs should get exactly the same rewards for everything. The purpose of choosing a class of mech should be to choose which role you want to perform easier. You want firepower at the expense of speed, you choose an assault. You want speed at the expense of firepower, you choose a light. Or you choose medium or heavy depending on how much you want speed and/or firepower.

An assault should get the same rewards for capturing an objective as a light, but the light can do it easier because it gets there faster.
A light should get the same rewards for doing damage as an assault, but the assault does it easier because it has more firepower.

The problem is that currently there is no real reason to choose speed because the maps are so small.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Wolfways, on 23 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I completely disagree with this. All mechs should get exactly the same rewards for everything. The purpose of choosing a class of mech should be to choose which role you want to perform easier. You want firepower at the expense of speed, you choose an assault. You want speed at the expense of firepower, you choose a light. Or you choose medium or heavy depending on how much you want speed and/or firepower.

An assault should get the same rewards for capturing an objective as a light, but the light can do it easier because it gets there faster.
A light should get the same rewards for doing damage as an assault, but the assault does it easier because it has more firepower.

The problem is that currently there is no real reason to choose speed because the maps are so small.

In theory, I agree. In reality, there are no real "roles" to be played. Every match is essentially a SMASH + FIND THE LAST LIGHT BEFORE TIME/POINTS EXPIRE!!!!!!! In those conditions, Lights generally fair not so well unless they travel in a group. Since the amount of people playing Lights is pretty low, you're not going to be able to travel in a highly effective Light pack. If, by some miracle, you get grouped with 3-4 other lights, you then have to hope your Heavies and Assaults have the balls to soak up damage without flinching so the Light pack and shred people's RT. The likelihood of all that happening...

For the majority of the player-base you would want to bring the Mech with which you have the most influence in. For the current state of MW:O that would be damage and kills.

Without real objectives, a reason for people to select Lights, to go for with corresponding c-bill/xp rewards the population will always be low..

The only draw Light pilots have for playing Lights after all the recent changes is that it's incredibly challenging.

Most maps are small because the direction this game is going is pure FPS. There's no point for big maps when everyone rushes the same spot over and over, disregarding group composition and weapon payloads simply because "it's the thing to do". No strategy, no objectives, just kill.

Nothing is going to change unless the game itself changes. The game won't change until PGI suffers financially and is forced to satisfy the community.

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 22 July 2014 - 02:22 PM, said:

People continuing to give money to PGI, all the while complaining about lack of content, need to look in a mirror and understand that they are the problem. Not PGI. Why would a company change its modus operandi when you're giving them money for not delivering on content?

Sparkles =/= content. Sparkles only benefit you. From a crowd who cries for Community Warfare, that's incredibly selfish.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 23 July 2014 - 11:19 AM.

[Wolfways]

Be Rough With Me Plz, on 23 July 2014 - 11:05 AM, said:

Nothing is going to change unless the game itself changes. The game won't change until PGI suffers financially and is forced to satisfy the community.

I think the map problem may be because PGI are already listening to some of the community. There are so many people playing big, slow mechs that have a fit when there is mention of bigger maps because they don't want to lose their advantage of not having to travel across maps to get to fights.
As far as i'm concerned if you choose a mech for its upsides you also accept the downsides. If you don't like slow travel pilot a smaller, faster mech.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Wolfways, on 23 July 2014 - 11:19 AM, said:

I think the map problem may be because PGI are already listening to some of the community. There are so many people playing big, slow mechs that have a fit when there is mention of bigger maps because they don't want to lose their advantage of not having to travel across maps to get to fights.
As far as i'm concerned if you choose a mech for its upsides you also accept the downsides. If you don't like slow travel pilot a smaller, faster mech.

Significant combat hardly occurs for the first 3-5 minutes of a match. Plenty of time for even a DWF to reach the place where the rest of the team decides to camp. A team that engages in a significant fight without their heaviest hitters deserve to lose.

People complaining about a non-issue will complain about other non-issues. That's the definition of QQ.

Sometimes correlation =/= causation.

Edited by Be Rough With Me Plz, 23 July 2014 - 11:28 AM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Trauglodyte, on 23 July 2014 - 10:11 AM, said:

weight scaling reward factor. The first part has bee needed forever because the game cannot survive, long term, as rock'em sock'em robots. It is boring and simply not fun and I've only been doing it for 2 years now. The last part, though, is what is really needed because a 20 ton mech and a 100 ton mech doing the same amount of damage, kills, assists, etc getting paid the exact same way is pathetic.

But it's hugely satisfying at the end of a drop when you drop 800+ dmg in a light mech, and the next highest performer is a 600 damage direwolf, etc.

[Styxx42]

MonkeyCheese, on 19 July 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

If only they would undo the changes to light mech fall damage and jumpjets... = more light mechs

I was going to say the same thing/
I have totally stopped using my speed machines to go scout and Tag. I am so badly damage from the pot holes on my way there that I take one LRM hit and a leg gets blown off.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

Styxx42, on 23 July 2014 - 11:35 AM, said:

I was going to say the same thing/
I have totally stopped using my speed machines to go scout and Tag. I am so badly damage from the pot holes on my way there that I take one LRM hit and a leg gets blown off.

When was the last time you played your light? They've pretty much fixed the X-speed/distance factoring in with Y-fall

[Trauglodyte]

Wolfways, on 23 July 2014 - 10:49 AM, said:

I completely disagree with this. All mechs should get exactly the same rewards for everything. The purpose of choosing a class of mech should be to choose which role you want to perform easier. You want firepower at the expense of speed, you choose an assault. You want speed at the expense of firepower, you choose a light. Or you choose medium or heavy depending on how much you want speed and/or firepower.

An assault should get the same rewards for capturing an objective as a light, but the light can do it easier because it gets there faster.
A light should get the same rewards for doing damage as an assault, but the assault does it easier because it has more firepower.

The problem is that currently there is no real reason to choose speed because the maps are so small.

I'm with you on that, Wolf. I really am. The only reason that I bring it up is because, thanks to the difference in what you can carry and how much damage you can take, the opportunities for Light mechs to do the current ONLY jobs available in the game is slightly less. It isn't so much to say that you can't (see what Fiero just said) but rather to say that it is largely improbable. Anyway, Lights and the Cicada aren't meant to be damage dealing machines. Any damage that they add to the game is a pure bonus because the OTHER aspects upon which those mechs are based aren't available. In game, you should have:

Scouts
Anti-Scouts/Strikers
Weapons Support Platforms
Line Holder/Main Battle Mechs

Right now, all we have are: Main Battle Mechs. Only, one doesn't look quite like the others. And, as you mentioned, the extremely small size of maps on top of the open nature of the maps doesn't exactly increase the likelihood that a Light mech is going to function well.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 23 July 2014 - 11:43 AM.

[ApolloKaras]

Widowmaker1981, on 23 July 2014 - 03:28 AM, said:

yes dude, im terrible at the game, and cant kill lights. OR, you could read what i actually said, which is that i hate them because they dont feel like mechs too me, they feel more like something out of unreal tournament.

Edit: - In fairness, i also dislike them because shooting them adds very little to total dmg, due to many more misses, and less armour to go through, lower dmg for me, hurts my epeen. not why im posting though.

Stats below to prove that im not exactly scrub tier (though i make no claim to be top tier either) - about 85% solo, group drops all random pick up groups in comstar teamspeak (no premades, no practising, as i dont have time for that)
edited out a bunch of mechs with hardly any drops to make the screen less spammy

I'm not sure why you posted stats, they really dont add anything to the conversation or help to prove a point.

They are out of Unreal Tournament? They are meant to be fast, would you prefer they all move 81 kph like everything else?

[Uveron]

OK. I love lights, they are a very different style of play. Since I have started playing them I have found myself only wanting to play conquest games. Played well the light mech is king if the conquest game.

[Trauglodyte]

AH Night Heron, on 23 July 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

OK. I love lights, they are a very different style of play. Since I have started playing them I have found myself only wanting to play conquest games. Played well the light mech is king if the conquest game.

That's kind of the point, though. In Conquest, Lights have a role. Their role is Robert Paulson, I mean their role is to cap and cap pull.

[Be Rough With Me Plz]

AH Night Heron, on 23 July 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

OK. I love lights, they are a very different style of play. Since I have started playing them I have found myself only wanting to play conquest games. Played well the light mech is king if the conquest game.

You're proving the point the OP was making. Ideally Light pilots should feel the way you feel in all game types, not just one. If Light pilots only decide to play Conquest then the other 2 game modes will never launch.

As it is, it's more a mentality of, "Do I want to take on the challenge of fighting Mechs than can leg/one-shot in a single alpha if I mess up or do I want to drive something bigger and be a walking turret."

[Cest7]

This is what happens when you fail at developing a proper role warfare other than the little ones go fast and the big ones actually kill stuff.