372 replies to this topic

[RagingOyster]

Goose, on 19 July 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

Clan pilots' gunnery skills,

That's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one

[DasSibby]

MonkeyCheese, on 19 July 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

If only they would undo the changes to light mech fall damage and jumpjets... = more light mechs

I could actually see this as a Viable method... if this was capped at say... Medium mechs. We don't need to encourage the Pop-Tart meta any more.

lockwoodx, on 19 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

A lot of people will say the JJ changes were the cause, but actually its the SRM fix that has royally screwed lights.

Quad Six-Packs will take both legs off a spider in one shot if you lead them well enough.

Listen. It's hard to get SRMs to hit a fast moving mech. Especially if he's using the terrain well and not charging straight at you like an idiot. I can't tell you how many light's I've destroyed for just running straight at me.

Basically light pilots need to keep in mind that they're spotters for LRMS, harassers to break down team (blob) discipline, or support.

This support role is where light pilots haven't figured it out yet. If more lights would wait til the heavies were engaged, then RUSH in and hammer them from behind... They'd be a lot more effective.

I can't tell you how frustrating it is piloting my Atlas Toe-to-Toe vs. another Assault when a spider decides to pick me off from behind. I can't turn away from his Assault buddy, but I can't swat the light either. It's a lose-lose for me. (And naturally my light got killed by that point by running straight at the enemy assault...)

That's my two cents. Take 'em or leave 'em.

[Mercules]

DasSibby, on 21 July 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

This support role is where light pilots haven't figured it out yet. If more lights would wait til the heavies were engaged, then RUSH in and hammer them from behind... They'd be a lot more effective.

Heavies engage? I was under the impression that they just stood behind cover until they saw two or more blue arrows moving forward into the enemy.... Usually lights...

[Trauglodyte]

I'm actually kind of happy that people aren't playing Lights. It means that I can actually play with a bit more freedom in my Locust. Poor thing only averages a shade under 200 damage per game but I do what I can do.

Here is the thing about this game: Rewards are too highly biased towards damage done, kills, and assists. I get why, though, because those are the "sexy" stats. Nobody gets penalized for giving or taking friendly fire while game mode objectives are largely unimportant and role benefits are non-existant. The truth is, we're playing a game that is really only half way done. What makes things worse, though, is that this game is all about:

rock < knife < gun < artillery < nuke < planet killing meteor

Everyone wants to take the biggest weapons platform that has the most armor and can carry the most weapons so that they can blow stuff up and get paid. So, if you're not at the top of the heap crushing the gnats of the battle field, you're going home with less money in your pocket. Plus, that bigger and meaner weapons platform means that you're apt at taking more damage thus increasing your longevity and providing you the ability to get in and out of combat to wrack up the most kills possible. All the while, the poor Light that is actually playing their role to the extreme walks away with nothing cause a fart takes off a leg and any enemy mech that looks at you wrong means that you just lost, or almost lost, a torso.

Honestly, there is so much wrong with this game that rewards just rub salt in the wound for those of us crazy enough to run around in something that isn't 50% weapons capable of 30+ alphas. And, what really makes things bad is that there isn't anything in the game for a mech to do OTHER than to shoot other mechs. I can't even attack a base in Assault mode thanks to the turrets. So, that leads this conversation back full circle to where we're left with doing damage as the best way to get paid/succeed and that only happens if you're in something that can take a punch.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 21 July 2014 - 10:55 AM.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 21 July 2014 - 10:48 AM, said:

I'm actually kind of happy that people aren't playing Lights. It means that I can actually play with a bit more freedom in my Locust. Poor thing only averages a shade under 200 damage per game but I do what I can do.

I have 3 35 tonners that are ready to go "nom nom nom" on that Lolcust.

[Trauglodyte]

Deathlike, on 21 July 2014 - 10:54 AM, said:

I have 3 35 tonners that are ready to go "nom nom nom" on that Lolcust.

Go brawl with someone else. There is nothing to be gained by chomping on me. Hey! What's that over there? <runs away>

BTW, to the community, when someone is playing in a 12v12 game and the last person on the opposing team says that they're in a Locust, are ACTUALLY in a Locust, and asks if someone wants to go 1v1, don't be a try hard **** and go 12v1. It is a FREAKING LOCUST!!!

Edited by Trauglodyte, 21 July 2014 - 10:56 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Lefty Lucy, on 19 July 2014 - 05:51 PM, said:

Lights have the natural disadvantages of having little armor, internal health, and not being able to equip much in the way of weaponry and equipment. This has been balanced in the past by lights having extreme mobility. A good light pilot can choose when and where he or she wants to fight, can get to strategically-important positions quickly, and can often get a view of the developing battlefield before the rest of the team. In high-level play being "harder to hit" doesn't come into play, as a skilled opponent will be able to hit you regardless of how fast you're moving. To wit, lights have always been extremely vulnerable to high-damage alphas removing legs or side torsos in a salvo or two.

Despite this high-risk play style, many of PGI's balance changes have made lights even riskier and less rewarding to play.

Turrets make it so lights can't threaten the enemy team with a base cap.

No-min-range Clan LRMs mean lights aren't safe from guided weaponry up close.

Fall damage means lights will often take significant damage before the enemy is even engaged.

The jump jet nerf means that lights have a much harder time getting out of bad situations, and if you reserve fuel to prevent extreme leg damage you get very little jump jet height in the first place, even with 5+ jj.

Every single balance patch doesn't do anything to get rid of the oft-maligned "pop tart" but cripples high-mobility game play even further.

While I definitely feel you, I've always felt like Light pilots were the best of the best at piloting and staying alive. These thrill seekers, riding on an under armored, under gunned speed machine know exactly what they are getting into when they squeeze into their tiny coffin.

That said: PGI you done screwed up with light JJ + leg damage. Flying over mechs, shooting down, firing in only ways that lights can, that was the fun, awesome part of piloting a light. Now you only have the under gunned, under armored part.

[Deathlike]

Trauglodyte, on 21 July 2014 - 10:56 AM, said:

Go brawl with someone else. There is nothing to be gained by chomping on me. Hey! What's that over there? <runs away>

The proper response was "SQUIRREL!"

[Lefty Lucy]

Technoviking, on 21 July 2014 - 10:58 AM, said:

While I definitely feel you, I've always felt like Light pilots were the best of the best at piloting and staying alive. These thrill seekers, riding on an under armored, under gunned speed machine know exactly what they are getting into when they squeeze into their tiny coffin.

That said: PGI you done screwed up with light JJ + leg damage. Flying over mechs, shooting down, firing in only ways that lights can, that was the fun, awesome part of piloting a light. Now you only have the under gunned, under armored part.

Yeah, that's why I pointed out the natural advantages and disadvantages that lights have. I enjoy piloting lights very much, because of the thrill and the challenge, I just feel like the weight class that deserves the nerf hammer the least has been hit the hardest with the latest round of mobility nerfs, and the fact that turrets hinder the one thing lights are truly useful for in competition: serving as a base-cap threat to disrupt the enemy plan.

[CeeKay Boques]

I just got some Mech blueprints (squee) and one of them is the Locust. You know what that long leg is? One giant shock absorber. These should be the kind of "Quirks" we see.

Locust : 75% less leg damage
Spider : Higher Jumpin, special touchdown JJ resevoir, less slammin
Jenner : Increased Horizontal thrust
Commando: I dunno, don't own that one.

The keep treating all the mechs the same in the name of "balance" when we all want more differences!

Edited by Technoviking, 21 July 2014 - 11:31 AM.

[Xyroc]

lockwoodx, on 19 July 2014 - 06:27 PM, said:

A lot of people will say the JJ changes were the cause, but actually its the SRM fix that has royally screwed lights.

Quad Six-Packs will take both legs off a spider in one shot if you lead them well enough.

if that spider gets that close and doesnt run in that serpentine fashion he deserves to lose them legs.

[nehebkau]

You want to fix the Light problem?

Strictly enforce the 3/3/3/3 setup in games. If all those heavies and assaults have to wait 10-15 minutes to get into a game, some of them will migrate downwards.

On the plus side, those of us who play lights will get 5 or 6 matches in for every one the "I only play my madcat" people get.

PGI should put up a timer on matches....

CONNECTING>>>>>>>> Your Current weight time based on Weight class:

Assault: 10 minutes

Heavy: 20 minutes

Medium: 3 minutes

Light: 30 seconds

Edited by nehebkau, 21 July 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[TercieI]

nehebkau, on 21 July 2014 - 11:32 AM, said:

You want to fix the Light problem?

Strictly enforce the 3/3/3/3 setup in games. If all those heavies and assaults have to wait 10-15 minutes to get into a game, some of them will migrate downwards.

On the plus side, those of us who play lights will get 5 or 6 matches in for every one the &quot;I only play my madcat&quot; people get.

PGI should put up a timer on matches....

CONNECTING&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Your Current weight time based on Weight class:

Assault: 10 minutes

Heavy: 20 minutes

Medium: 3 minutes

Light: 30 seconds

Great plan. That'll fix all the problems with the game, because there won't be any game left. Making people do something they do for fun a particular way.... <rolls eyes>

[Boymonkey]

Also about lights you can have a thrilling match where you do so much and you think wow that was a hard match then you look at your cbills and think........
Love lights I just love my COM-DK but at the moment more matchs are cut shot by one leg hit gone and thats it.
We need to be rewarded better at the things light mechs do and to be honest they just aint worth the bother.

[nehebkau]

Terciel1976, on 21 July 2014 - 12:46 PM, said:

Great plan. That'll fix all the problems with the game, because there won't be any game left. Making people do something they do for fun a particular way.... <rolls eyes>

Translation:

"I wanna play my heavy NOW! You can't make me wait! You have no right! I paid for it! Its my RIGHT to play now!"

If you want to play an over-utilized weight-class then its your responsibility to accept that, fairness dictates, you are going to have to wait to play.

Edited by nehebkau, 21 July 2014 - 01:06 PM.

[TercieI]

nehebkau, on 21 July 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Translation:

&quot;I wanna play my heavy NOW! You can't make me wait! You have no right! I paid for it! Its my RIGHT to play now!&quot;

If you want to play an over-utilized weight-class then its your responsibility to accept that, fairness dictates, you are going to have to wait to play.

Look at my sig, ya doofus. I'm a light pilot first, I'm just not dumb enough to think people will keep doing something for fun (let alone paying to do so) if they're dictated how to do it.

[stjobe]

nehebkau, on 21 July 2014 - 01:04 PM, said:

Translation:

"I wanna play my heavy NOW! You can't make me wait! You have no right! I paid for it! Its my RIGHT to play now!"

If you want to play an over-utilized weight-class then its your responsibility to accept that, fairness dictates, you are going to have to wait to play.

Translation:

"I have nothing to back up my ideas with when someone points out the obvious flaw in them, so I resort to ad hominems instead."

Terciel is a light pilot as far as I know; we've had some great discussions on light 'mech play (both agreeing and disagreeing) over the years.

More to the point your "idea" was tried. The MM couldn't kick off any matches at all, so they had to re-design it with release valves to get any matches going (which kind of defeats the whole idea of 3/3/3/3, but that's another discussion).

The bottom line is this: Forcing people to play something they don't want to play isn't the answer; encouraging people to play something they don't usually play is the answer, and the key to do that is to make the underutilized weight classes (lights and mediums) REWARDING to play - both in XP/CB but also in play experience.

If they are FUN to play, if they are meaningful contributors to the outcome of the match, if they give as good rewards as piloting heavies and assaults, there won't be any shortage any more.

Edited by stjobe, 21 July 2014 - 03:02 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Dogmeat1, on 21 July 2014 - 08:14 AM, said:

How many games is "a good number of matches" I know you are a good player and run with a very good crowd but I am going to have to dispute your numbers. I am not going to pretend that I am anywhere near the top level for light mechs; I have enough spectators making comments during games about my crappy aim to know that. Yet I have 4 lights (FS9-E, FS9-K, RVN-3L, SDR-5D) with 100-200 games each that average close to or over 400 dmg and have k/d ratios of 3.0 or higher. Since the clan invasion started my overall stats have actually increased and right now I am leveling a JR7-K who is on track to match or better the stats of my other lights. If I can do that while playing lights part-time, then I am very certain the top level light players have much better stats overall.

Thinking about it more this is more of a result of dropping in 12mans/groups with some regularity. You'll be sharing damage.

I've been keeping track of my solo drop stats for awhile now, and I just calculated average damage for those games only. Going off of that, what I said was pretty stupid.

[Kampfer]

I play Lights and Meds almost exclusively lately, and while I enjoy the light mechs they can be very depressing to play sometimes. At least once an hour I'll start moving and before I can even see an enemy I'll get a limb blown off by a lucky shot. Doesn't matter how fast, ping, hit detection there is nothing to prevent that guy that gets a lucky alpha and blows a leg or arm off of you from 1200m away within the first 1 minute of the game.
I still play and love my light mechs but sometimes they are very fustrating to play, especially since how you are rewarded more for damage done and enemies killed than any other action in the game.

[Kassatsu]

It's no surprise because light mechs take skill. You can't just hold the spacebar for a few seconds and then left click to shave off half of an enemy heavy's CT armor in a light mech. Unless you're a 2x ER PPC Kit Fox. Then you kind of can.

People tend to pick what's easy and effective, well guess what... Heavy and assault mechs are both of those. Light mechs take intelligence, skill and yes, even a little bit of luck at times to pilot successfully. Heavies and assaults can do well in almost any situation and at least score some reasonable damage numbers before dying. A light can literally be one-shot by certain builds, and very nearly one-shot by *most* builds. Heck even mediums can go down in the same fashion, but they're played more often because their skill ceiling is far lower than that of a light mech's.

Just think of it this way: You're part of the elite 9% for playing a light mech. Probably more like 1% if you play it well. You don't get off on holding the spacebar and left clicking, and you don't get off on taking a leisurely stroll right into the face of the enemy to bring your 50 tons of weaponry to bear (if the Kodiak was out already that would be a HILARIOUS pun). You avoid all of that in favor of intelligent maneuvering and picking your targets to maximize your (comparatively) limited damage potential, while avoiding as much incoming damage as possible.