53 replies to this topic

[Lefty Lucy]

Sandpit, on 20 July 2014 - 10:23 AM, said:

....

that's not what he said.... or even implied...

He said straight-up that the Clans had "the edge."

Of course, being PGI, they'll never share the actual data with us.

[BoomDog]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Of course they actually did run an experiment yesterday where the solo queue was set to Clan vs. IS and most reports were that the I.S. got stomped almost every game.

Yeah, there was even a Clanner that pointed out that they stomped IS 3 games in a row. He said the best the IS did was 12-2.

I think it's pretty obvious the balance is off simply because PGI can do clan vs. IS, but they aren't.

[Xarian]

This is a guy who thinks that things must either be "OP" or "over-nerfed". No such thing as a happy middle, apparently.

From my personal experience, Clan players are just smarter on average than IS players. I think that this is just because the true "newbies" only play IS, and veterans who have bought the Clan packages are still testing out their shiny new mechs.

I'm much more afraid of decent IS pilots than decent Clan pilots, however. A Direwolf is a scary beast if he gets you in front of him, but an Atlas can turn around and smack you. My armor gets beat up a lot more by Clan pilots, but I get killed more by IS pilots because they don't spread the love around to all of my armor locations. Clans don't have a Shadowhawk or a Jenner/Firestarter, and their equivalent of the Jagermech is an Assault mech.

Clans have a definite advantage at super-long ranged engagements, but how often does that happen? It's common on Alpine and (sometimes) Caustic Valley, but on every other map the advantage goes to mid-range firepower; on some maps (like River City) the advantage often goes to short-range firepower where your Firestarters, Jenners, Shadowhawks and (sometimes amusingly) Hunchbacks shred mechs that weigh 20+ tons more than them.

Edited by Xarian, 20 July 2014 - 10:42 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

He said straight-up that the Clans had "the edge."

Of course, being PGI, they'll never share the actual data with us.

Good. Let the Clans have that edge. I wanna overcome that advantage, by hook or crook!

[TOGSolid]

In this thread: People willingly ignoring the fact that the IS is saddled with all of the MWO newbies.

[Gyrok]

Shredhead, on 20 July 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Way to say "I think they might indeed be OP"
Back-paddling, back-paddling, back-paddling...

Trolling, Trolling, Trolling...

BoomDog, on 20 July 2014 - 10:33 AM, said:

Yeah, there was even a Clanner that pointed out that they stomped IS 3 games in a row. He said the best the IS did was 12-2.

I think it's pretty obvious the balance is off simply because PGI can do clan vs. IS, but they aren't.

Actually, regardless of who we face in the group queue 12-2 is a typical results when we run large groups. Some matches go 12-4 to 12-8, though infrequent, and once in a blue moon, we lose (typically loaded with new players and training on execution/movement/formation).

[Lefty Lucy]

TOGSolid, on 20 July 2014 - 10:46 AM, said:

In this thread: People willingly ignoring the fact that the IS is saddled with all of the MWO newbies.

Considering I hardly ever see (c) mechs, I think there aren't that many newbies in the first place.

[Mcgral18]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 10:52 AM, said:

Considering I hardly ever see (c) mechs, I think there aren't that many newbies in the first place.

I think I can disprove that...

It's a miracle if they can manage 200 damage, let alone half the team getting 100 damage!

It's gotten pretty bad lately.

[Lefty Lucy]

Mcgral18, on 20 July 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

I think I can disprove that...

It's a miracle if they can manage 200 damage, let alone half the team getting 100 damage!

It's gotten pretty bad lately.

Must be different elo brackets. I see a (c) mech or two maybe every 4 games.

[Mcgral18]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 11:29 AM, said:

Must be different elo brackets. I see a (c) mech or two maybe every 4 games.

It's not even the C mechs, it's Clans, IS and C alike.

Half the team gets 500+, while the other 6 get sub 100, on the odd occasion. Normally 6 under 200, or thereabouts.

It can be very annoying pugging, being down 2 mechs within 2 minutes because they charge into the other team. Even the group queue has quite a few Champs, though this is sometimes just a group of players fooling around, other times it is the brand new players joined by a veteran.

[Mystere]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 08:25 AM, said:

Of course they actually did run an experiment yesterday where the solo queue was set to Clan vs. IS and most reports were that the I.S. got stomped almost every game.

Well then, I would like to see the numbers for this!

But then again, how was Elo-based selection during this "experiment"? Because if the "release valves" were wide open, then the results will be questionable at best.

[Scratx]

Not to mention that many newbies are playing with an owned mech... because they graduated from trial mech by virtue of buying their own mech with cadet bonus.

[Mystere]

Shredhead, on 20 July 2014 - 09:51 AM, said:

Way to say "I think they might indeed be OP"
Back-paddling, back-paddling, back-paddling...

Hmm, you seem to be conveniently overlooking this part:

2/2 factors at play like watching brand new players naturally use IS mechs only add the fact that more experienced players bought clans

[Mystere]

Lefty Lucy, on 20 July 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

He said straight-up that the Clans had "the edge."

All I am getting is the sentence fragment:

Clans had the edge however there are a few

How do I get the rest, especially because the context seems to be missing?

[Mystere]

Xarian, on 20 July 2014 - 10:41 AM, said:

... the true "newbies" only play IS, and veterans who have bought the Clan packages are still testing out their shiny new mechs ...

If this is indeed the case, then any IS vs. Clan "data" tainted by this is suspect.

[Scratx]

Mystere, on 20 July 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

All I am getting is the sentence fragment:

Clans had the edge however there are a few

How do I get the rest, especially because the context seems to be missing?

Twitter.

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

Quote

IS vs Clan test has concluded, but we got some good data both in balance and queue sizes. Will help with CW dev

Quote

1/2 The test went pretty well. We launched 132 matches in our brief test that was IS vs Clans. Clans had the edge however there are a few

Quote

2/2 factors at play like watching brand new players naturally use IS mechs only add the fact that more experienced players bought clans

Quote

We have some things to consider, but it's looking like no the clans are not over nerfed. Looking forward to the next test.

[Mavairo]

Add some champion mechs for the clans and do this test again...

[Sandpit]

Scratx, on 20 July 2014 - 12:20 PM, said:

Twitter.

https://twitter.com/russ_bullock

Not exactly sure what you're trying to discern from the tweet

Mavairo, on 20 July 2014 - 12:28 PM, said:

Add some champion mechs for the clans and do this test again...

or
use the test server for what it is?
to test stuff like this...

[Scratx]

Sandpit, on 20 July 2014 - 12:30 PM, said:

Not exactly sure what you're trying to discern from the tweet


or
use the test server for what it is?
to test stuff like this...

Pointed at source and then quoted the relevant tweets.

[BoomDog]

Gyrok, on 20 July 2014 - 10:50 AM, said:

Actually, regardless of who we face in the group queue 12-2 is a typical results when we run large groups. Some matches go 12-4 to 12-8, though infrequent, and once in a blue moon, we lose (typically loaded with new players and training on execution/movement/formation).

These were pug matches. Based on the posts, many by clanners, IS was stomped into the ground repeatedly and overwhelmingly.

I admit though, 12 vs 12 premades would probably be very different. It'll be tricky to balance those two different arenas.