314 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 24 July 2014 - 07:26 PM, said:

In my observation ... part of the problem is that PGI has a different yardstick for measuring "successful communication". Their "let's get some community feedback" process seems to be ...

(1) Float an idea (like a revamped module system) and see what the community thinks
(2) Watch the forum firestorm for a few days, sort out the good ideas, positive and negative feedback, ignore as much extra noise as possible
(3) (new step added this year) if something is particularly contentious or if there's a nugget of brilliant wisdom in the feedback, acknowledge it and return to step (2)
(3.a.) Forum firestorm continues
(4) When it makes the agenda at a scheduled meeting (this might take a few weeks), revise the design document
(4.a.) Forum firestorm starts dying off
(5) Start programming the change (this might take weeks)
(5.a.) New issue replaces previous forum firestorm, excpet for guys who just can't stop bitching about it, or those who keep a list of all the things they've ever bitched about and just won't get over it
(6) QA testing (this will take weeks)
(7) Build into patch
(8) If it's a big change, document it in patch notes or a Command Chair post
(9) Go back to step (2)

Part of the problem is patience. This particular thread is only three days old, and they've already fixed, kind of, my biggest gripe, which I sincerely appreciate. I do wish the process was faster, and that they would communicate with us more, but I would rather that they spend more time actually doing development work than talking about it (although I sincerely appreciate it when they do talk to us about it).

For the record, I completely agree with Cimarb that PGI has improved in this area, but still has a way to go.

This is a great post, but my personal favorite part is:

Quote

(5.a.) New issue replaces previous forum firestorm, excpet for guys who just can't stop bitching about it, or those who keep a list of all the things they've ever bitched about and just won't get over it

This is just hilarious. I love how there's this subset of players than can just never let anything go, and will keep bringing up past "slights" until the end of time.

MischeifSC had a great post some time back about how people need to start just letting that stuff go, and move on. I get that there have been some bad and some really, really bad decisions PGI has made, and some issues they've handled extremely poorly, but harping on about old and done things doesn't do anyone any good at all. It definitely falls under "Either get over it and move on, or just move right on out the door."

PGI still has a ways to go with how they handle things, but they are improving. Credit should be given where it's due.

[Wintersdark]

Sergeant Miles, on 26 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

WTF all my weapon modules are gone. I paid a crap load to unlock all those and now they are gone.

What the hell is wrong with you people.. can't you get this straight for a minute.

You don't fix something by taking it away??

OK.. I've had it.. this is going to be the last straw.... bring back all those weapon modules or I'll start a class action against your company for bait and switch tactic's.

I have never lost a case against anyone ever. Make this right or I'll file a complaint with California legal system.

You think because your in Canada that I can't come after you for this Bait and Switch bullshit. We have laws here that protect us from crap like this.

Fix it.. and fix it soon.. or expect your lawyers to get busy with traveling to California courts to explain this.

STOP messing with us players or pay the piper!

hahahaha I love when people start threatening lawsuits over these things. That's just hilarious. I mean, really, really funny. I always wonder if they honestly believe that a single court is going to give a rat's posterior about how they feel they were defrauded of in-game currency due to the changing nature of an online game...


Of course, it IS a scary threat. After all, he's never lost a case, ever!

Egads!

[Ian Grahame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony

[Sergeant Miles]

Wintersdark, on 26 July 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

hahahaha I love when people start threatening lawsuits over these things. That's just hilarious. I mean, really, really funny. I always wonder if they honestly believe that a single court is going to give a rat's posterior about how they feel they were defrauded of in-game currency due to the changing nature of an online game...


Of course, it IS a scary threat. After all, he's never lost a case, ever!

Egads!

Hey.. I got a good laugh also... glad you did to. I needed a rant just because.. seemed like a good place .. hehehe

Still.. all the weapons modules are gone from the lists in the mechbay? But there still in the pilot tree?

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 26 July 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

if they honestly believe that a single court is going to give a rat's posterior about how they feel they were defrauded of in-game currency due to the changing nature of an online game...

well
you'd be surprised actually.
Plus, the judge doesn't decide guilt, a jury does. So it's not a judge you have to convince, it's a jury of people like you and me. So, if you load up the jury with gaming nerds you have a better shot than you might think. The judge determines the amount to be awarded, not guilt. Unless it's a small claims case, then it's all on the judge, but a class action suit wouldn't fall into that category

[Wintersdark]

Sandpit, on 26 July 2014 - 09:49 AM, said:

well
you'd be surprised actually.
Plus, the judge doesn't decide guilt, a jury does. So it's not a judge you have to convince, it's a jury of people like you and me. So, if you load up the jury with gaming nerds you have a better shot than you might think. The judge determines the amount to be awarded, not guilt. Unless it's a small claims case, then it's all on the judge, but a class action suit wouldn't fall into that category

I do understand how courts work

The thing is, we all click through a terms of service that explicitly contains a statement about the game changing during play. While EULA/TOS aren't legit in terms of being legally binding contracts for a company to sue a user over, you can't exactly complain that the game developers did what they told you they would do, and that you agreed to in said TOS. As such, complaining about changes in the game are going to run into a dead end really, really fast.

There are countless reasons why these claims are all BS - I'd happily go into it, but I'm pretty sure you know damn well that's the case. It's a totally baseless threat that has virtually no chance of success - and even more than no chance of success, it would be practically impossible to even get it off the ground, particularly given the international nature of the situation.

[Wintersdark]

Also:
Wait, look, weapon modules; right there! Zomg! It's sorcery!

I just get annoyed by random frivolous absurd lawsuit threats. It's even more annoying and idiotic than "THIS CHANGE IS A SLAP IN THE FACE!!!"

Edited by Wintersdark, 26 July 2014 - 10:33 AM.

[Sandpit]

Wintersdark, on 26 July 2014 - 10:25 AM, said:

I do understand how courts work

The thing is, we all click through a terms of service that explicitly contains a statement about the game changing during play. While EULA/TOS aren't legit in terms of being legally binding contracts for a company to sue a user over, you can't exactly complain that the game developers did what they told you they would do, and that you agreed to in said TOS. As such, complaining about changes in the game are going to run into a dead end really, really fast.

There are countless reasons why these claims are all BS - I'd happily go into it, but I'm pretty sure you know damn well that's the case. It's a totally baseless threat that has virtually no chance of success - and even more than no chance of success, it would be practically impossible to even get it off the ground, particularly given the international nature of the situation.

I understand that, I'm not agreeing with that post either, I'm just pointing out that it's not as unlikely as it would seem nor is it unfathomable that a jury would side with the plaintiff.

[Wintersdark]

Sandpit, on 26 July 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

I understand that, I'm not agreeing with that post either, I'm just pointing out that it's not as unlikely as it would seem nor is it unfathomable that a jury would side with the plaintiff.

It's also not unfathomable that the plaintiff may be struck by lightening on his way to the courthouse, but in this particular instance it's probably more likely.

I'm aware that jury trials are funny things that can end very randomly (because fundamentally people are stupid) but this instance really stretches the bounds of reasonable in all kinds of ways.

[Meta 2013]

Hey all,

Please note ***** this is not a flame, this is not a whine, this is not an opinion.

Reading through here have seen many really good ideas. For those that are newer to the game or and the forums, and may not have the time to read everything ... one thing that need to be reminded every so often, is just how intricate and interrelated the coding is between the game itself and the engine it runs on.

ok what do I mean ...

quite a long time ago ... some time last year ... they made a change to something, which by "our" ( us users) thinking there was no possible link between that, and what they changed ... I forget what it was ...but something obscure like going from 8 to 12 mans ..

That obscure change .... turned off the weapons missile bay door light in the cockpit.

So naturally ...we made a lot of jokes about it. It was to us ... the equivalent,of changing a wiper blade on your car, and suddenly your head lights do not work.

So someone from PGI did finally talk about it a bit later during a very long post on many subjects, and the explanation was something to this effect:

"so the game runs on CryEngine 3, which means everything filters through it. WE license the use of it, and the support, but that still leads to a level of understanding that is missing here, we did not make CryEngine, so any time we make a seemingly harmless change to one thing .... we do not know how that change Is connected in CryEngine application level, and while our guys are learning, it is a curve."

That's not word for word, but you get the point. Folks who don't have programming experience, cannot always appreciate the difficult task this can be.

Lets not forget people leave ..new folks come in, sometimes knowledge is lost, contractor finishes what he was contracted to do, when he goes, so does what he learned.

Just keep in mind, those modules you want to see made, may not always interact with CryEngine systems the coders have started to become experts at interfacing with. So the testing time for those types of things, maybe be a lot longer, and is probably lower priority, over things like new maps.


Have Fun.

[SICk Nick]

I really think there should be sensor modules giving mechs different sensor profiles (long and narrow feilds of scanning for snipers, 360 degree for brawlers ect ect..)

And I really think we should have pilots who gain skills and not focus so much on mech modules. Weapon modules should be scrapped and re-visit the idea of weapons of different manufacturers' with different characteristics.

[Spurowny]

Sergeant Miles, on 26 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

all the weapons modules are gone from the lists in the mechbay? But there still in the pilot tree?

Do you have a clan mech selected when you look in the mechlab?
If you do the weapon modules won't appear on the list.

Clan weapon modules aren't in the game yet, so the current weapon modules only are visible in the mechlab when you are putting modules on IS chasis.

Edit: spacing fix

Edited by Spurowny, 28 July 2014 - 09:30 PM.

[Budor]

Should i unequip modules that i have equipped or will the patch do that/sort them in the appropriate slots?

Edited by Budor, 29 July 2014 - 04:29 AM.

[Zabadoo]

Krinkov, on 21 July 2014 - 01:34 PM, said:

You seem to have a bit of a stutter.

What was the point of you editing the quote ? Then accusing him of stuttering?
That is not the quote above.
If it's a joke. I'm lost like so many people.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Sergeant Miles, on 26 July 2014 - 09:39 AM, said:

Hey.. I got a good laugh also... glad you did to. I needed a rant just because.. seemed like a good place .. hehehe

Still.. all the weapons modules are gone from the lists in the mechbay? But there still in the pilot tree?

Are you looking from a clan mechs point of view? they have it set up so clan mechs cant equip the IS weapon modules, and can't even see them now.

[Cimarb]

SICk Nick, on 28 July 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

I really think there should be sensor modules giving mechs different sensor profiles (long and narrow feilds of scanning for snipers, 360 degree for brawlers ect ect..)

And I really think we should have pilots who gain skills and not focus so much on mech modules. Weapon modules should be scrapped and re-visit the idea of weapons of different manufacturers' with different characteristics.

Completely agree on the weapon modules, and think the "role-based" sensors is a great idea.

Spurowny, on 28 July 2014 - 09:30 PM, said:

Do you have a clan mech selected when you look in the mechlab?
If you do the weapon modules won't appear on the list.

Clan weapon modules aren't in the game yet, so the current weapon modules only are visible in the mechlab when you are putting modules on IS chasis.

Edit: spacing fix

Clan weapon modules are being added today, so that should fix the issue, but you are correct that it is likely because he has a Clan mech selected.

[damonwolf]

I just bought 2 Seismic modules for 2 Mechs this weekend that I cannot use in concert with the other 2 modules I already have (Advanced Zoom and Radar Dep), so I am going to demand a refund of those 2 modules as i won't use them on any other Mech.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was just screwed out of millions of CBills. And NOW I'm goiong to have to shell out millions more a for weapon modules on top of that? If you guys actually gave a **** about your customers, you would do a complete reset of the module system and refund all modules for every account. Therefore people can start fresh and choose what modules they want with your crappy changes that punish players.

Let me write that again...RESET THE MODULE SYSTEM.

Edited by damonwolf, 29 July 2014 - 12:11 PM.

[Sudden]

thanks for the work on the module system, I for 1 am very happy, I have always only used the arty and air strike modules. now I can finally use some of the of the others.

[damonwolf]

I am not a fan of the changes that were made. I was screwed out of millions of credits I spent this weekend on Seismic modules that won't fit now and will sit in my inventory.
I don't like the changes, BUT I COULD LIVE WITH THEM if you'd:

1) Do a complete reset of the module slot system considering you made such huge game-changing changes.That way people can choose what modules they want, and won't be screwed out of millions of CBills and GXP and have now-useless modules cluttering up their inventory. It's the RIGHT THING to do for your customers.
2) Allow the customer the ability to sell ALL of their old modules for a full price refund of CBills, not half.

Again, I don't like the taste of the sandwich you just fed us, but it would go down easier if you would just do a complete reset of the module system.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 29 July 2014 - 03:37 PM.
Language

[Cimarb]

damonwolf, on 29 July 2014 - 12:23 PM, said:

I am not a fan of the changes that were made. I was screwed out of millions of credits I spent this weekend on Seismic modules that won't fit now and will sit in my inventory.
I don't like the changes, BUT I COULD LIVE WITH THEM if you'd:

1) Do a complete reset of the module slot system considering you made such huge game-changing changes.That way people can choose what modules they want, and won't be screwed out of millions of CBills and GXP and have now-useless modules cluttering up their inventory. It's the RIGHT THING to do for your customers.
2) Allow the customer the ability to sell ALL of their old modules for a full price refund of CBills, not half.

Again, I don't like the taste of the sandwich you just fed us, but it would go down easier if you would just do a complete reset of the module system.

You want a refund of the in-game "money" you spent a few days ago when it was announced weeks ago that the system would be changing?...

I am all for a complete reset of modules/skills, and honestly think the whole system should be overhauled on top of that, but your request is a little hollow due to the timing of your purchase.

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 29 July 2014 - 03:37 PM.
Language in quote