243 replies to this topic

[Xyroc]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2014 - 11:25 AM, said:

We have maybe a quarter of the Mechs available for this time frame, it is no where near "enough"

Many other things this game needs besides more mechs. One pilot really doesnt need to have 50+ mechs like I know you and all of us that have been playing for that long have.

Edited by Beliall, 24 July 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[PANZERKAT]

I think we'll see some freely available mechs before we get another pay mech pack. Not counting Hero Mechs. Will current monetary systems carry the game and fund future development without having to pull attention away from CW and more maps? That remains to be seen.

Hopefully they won't give ComStar attention as a pack without having some Invasion Terra maps at the same time. I think we'd all like to mech stomp around the Pyramids and the Great Wall of China. If you'd like these maps to have dual purpose as an Egypt map only works for earth, design it with the iconic terrain pieces being substituted with general terrain as a "different map" for use on other planets.

I think they have their CW concept fairly set and we'll see that roll out. We'll probably see the decal system roll out with it, because what's the point of CW if we can't start unlocking the faction specific designs and logos, some of which will cost MC?
I'd like to see them implement a similar system that War Thunder uses. You can buy to unlock image designs right away or fulfill the faction/unit achievements to unlock them. This game needs to OFFER more in terms of rewards beyond C-Bills. Most of the current achievement rewards are extremely lackluster. Some of the C-Bill rewards are beyond insulting. Why bother if I'm only getting 15k? Oh great, another title I'll
never use.
Don't be afraid to see what is working for other titles and adapting methods to your game. People like those games for a reason.

Also, Solaris. Arguably we're playing Solaris now, but I believe that Solaris could run as a monetary system. Leader and ranks with suitable rewards for those who play and are victorious, but it costs MC to drop OR you can pay for yearly access. It would come with Solaris maps only accessibly through Solaris. With the current game model they can't charge for map packs. I think Solaris could net some serious cash and work around that without causing harm to the player base.

Have Seasons and sponsors which players can choose from for various effects to their mechs. Is there a desire for a more hardcore feature with repair and rearm? Possibly with equipment destroyed on the mech actually being taken out of your inventory?

I think there are many players who would welcome this. Many remember repair and rearm. It was a check to certain rampant builds and people were more careful with their rides. What we have now is an arcade shoot and stomp with mechs. Simulator should be stripped from this title, because it's player base can't even handle what "Launch" means, so it had to be changed to "play" Develop where the money is. Give us MC Solaris Hardcore mode. It could also implement a more detailed salvage system. A separate equipment inventory for Solaris. This could allow C-tech to be put on non-clan mechs and it's not a terribly OP thought, because they can be easily lost and are only brought out for certain fights.

Oh, what this game could be. A game not decimated with knee jerk changes to mechanics like the current JJ change. Off topic, but I've been playing some stock mechs. JJ's are a joke. Those starter mechs are even more burdensome than they were before. More JJ's should increase in efficiency with large margins the more that are put in. 1-2 give you slight maneuvering. 3+ can give you the momentum they are supposed to give you. It's hard to argue that this changed anything else but hamstringing lights and stocks.

I suppose this could be a precursor to them adding JJ modules which reduce heat and grant extra lift and speed. (Two different mods) I think that would be a natural assumption. I'd actually be find with it.

Edited by KOMMISSAR KITTY, 24 July 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[CeeKay Boques]

Beliall, on 24 July 2014 - 06:30 AM, said:

Many other things this game needs besides more mechs. One pilot really doesnt need to have 50+ mechs like I know you and all of us that have been playing for that long have.

I feel guilty for the dust that accumulates. I almost have too many Mechs. What a pain to swap equipment between them all, or how expensive to equip them all. I don't know about Joseph though, I thought I read somewhere that he actually deletes chassis when he's done with them. Got to be the anomaly though... Maybe that's why he feels he doesn't have enough.

[Davers]

Technoviking, on 24 July 2014 - 07:56 AM, said:

I feel guilty for the dust that accumulates. I almost have too many Mechs. What a pain to swap equipment between them all, or how expensive to equip them all. I don't know about Joseph though, I thought I read somewhere that he actually deletes chassis when he's done with them. Got to be the anomaly though... Maybe that's why he feels he doesn't have enough.

He also promised his wife he wouldn't spend money here or something.

[Duke Hector]

i would be very annoyed with it because its another shameless cash grab, we need game features NOT more mechs

Edited by Dan the Ice Man, 24 July 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[Sephlock]

Davers, on 24 July 2014 - 09:43 AM, said:

He also promised his wife he wouldn't spend money here or something.

Spousal promises were made to be broken .

Dan the Ice Man, on 24 July 2014 - 10:27 AM, said:

i would be very annoyed with it because its another shameless cash grab, we need game features NOT more mechs

Mechs ARE game features.

Preferably mechs with new dakka.

[Duke Hector]

Sephlock, on 24 July 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

Spousal promises were made to be broken .
Mechs ARE game features.
Preferably mechs with new dakka.

no mechs are NOT game features, maps, game modes, more weapons, and factional warfare are game features

[Agent of Change]

Dan the Ice Man, on 24 July 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

no mechs are NOT game features, maps, game modes, more weapons, and factional warfare are game features

QFT

Game modes, Maps, CW, Role warfare are all things we desperately need more of. More mechs are fine but more mechs doesn't make the game more fun to people who are already turned off by the lack of the aforementioned missing features. I'd be willing to bet the average player doesn't currently have all the mechs they want soI don't think we desperately need mechs as much as we need the other things.

[Alex Warden]

Stabu, on 23 July 2014 - 02:51 AM, said:

Well, since the CW seems to be stuck on "in the next 90 days" limbo, i think its highly possible that we will have more mechpacks. Personally i have lost all hope of ever seeing any sort of meaningful CW out of this game. Dont get me wrong, i would dearly love to see it happen.

I am just resigned to the fact that early promises and hopes have since died.

yep, they will tell us "CW is almost ready, just buy a new mechpack in the meantime".... and 3 weeks later they will reset "CW release" to 90 days again it´s been a pattern that worked pretty well for the last 2 years, so why change it...

Edited by Alex Warden, 24 July 2014 - 11:02 AM.

[Sephlock]

Dan the Ice Man, on 24 July 2014 - 10:30 AM, said:

no mechs are NOT game features, maps, game modes, more weapons, and factional warfare are game features

How are they going to introduce new weapons without new mechs? Just dump them into the shop with no fanfare?

Come on, Heavy Gauss is cool, but...

[SgtMagor]

more Fafnir thought they looked kewl.

[Roland]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

We have the UI experts behind the Clan HUD handling CW at the moment, as well as the designers and engineering. Inserting a new Mech into the game has mostly become 'EZPZ' in terms of resourcing ;

How about instead of making new mechs, you instead reallocate those people to redesigning existing mechs which are critically flawed in one way or another, since it would be exactly the same people?

For instance, instead of making a new mech like the Zeus, you instead have those people build a new, properly scaled Awesome, with hit boxes that aren't terrible?

That would be a better use of your resources.

[Agent of Change]

Roland, on 24 July 2014 - 12:14 PM, said:

How about instead of making new mechs, you instead reallocate those people to redesigning existing mechs which are critically flawed in one way or another, since it would be exactly the same people?

For instance, instead of making a new mech like the Zeus, you instead have those people build a new, properly scaled Awesome, with hit boxes that aren't terrible?

That would be a better use of your resources.

QFT

But the problem Roland old buddy is that people already BOUGHT those mechs. They can just keep pumping out new mechs and regardless of whether they are as shoddy as some of the ones we already have or the new hotness people will buy them. It has been pointed out that it seems officially it's more important to create things that generate maximum MC sales rather than things that increase the quality and depth of the game. I mean the difference is between money grabs that people get fed up with and building a system that retains paying customers for the duration. Either way is a money maker one just requires a little foresight and caring more about your product than the other.

Edited by Agent of Change, 24 July 2014 - 12:24 PM.

[Duke Hector]

Sephlock, on 24 July 2014 - 11:04 AM, said:

How are they going to introduce new weapons without new mechs? Just dump them into the shop with no fanfare?
Come on, Heavy Gauss is cool, but...
http://1-media-cdn.foolz.us/ffuuka/board/m/image/1241/74/1241744982008.jpg

as cool as the Fafnir is.. i don't expect were even going to get that far into the timeline. considering PGI's tendency to drag their feet about things (IE community warfare fiasco, the missing flea, knockdowns, MASC etc)

i expect we are only going to make it to about 3058 about 8 years from now or so since that seems to be the lifespan of one of these games, considering that they had to roll back the timeline to 3050.

If they start making MORE mechs and then do another mech pack BEFORE community warfare is even out, i'm done with this game since they have ZERO interest in keeping the fans happy OR even interested in their game

considering that fans are what make this game AND the fact we pay the bills.... its a huge slap in the face, an insult and totally unacceptable...

Edited by Dan the Ice Man, 24 July 2014 - 12:53 PM.

[1453 R]

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

We have the UI experts behind the Clan HUD handling CW at the moment, as well as the designers and engineering. Inserting a new Mech into the game has mostly become 'EZPZ' in terms of resourcing and we have a few people who are dedicated specifically to making Mechs. Throwing those people into CW is more likely to generate a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario as opposed to speeding up the process.

We did also promise continuation of IS Mech delivery alongside the Clan C-Bill/MC Releases as we steam our way towards Community Warfare. Stay tuned!

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Inserting a new Mech into the game has mostly become 'EZPZ' in terms of resourcing and we have a few people who are dedicated specifically to making Mechs. Throwing those people into CW is more likely to generate a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario as opposed to speeding up the process.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

Throwing those people into CW is more likely to generate a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario as opposed to speeding up the process.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

generate a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario as opposed to speeding up the process.

Nikolai Lubkiewicz, on 24 July 2014 - 12:54 AM, said:

a "too many cooks in the kitchen" scenario

HEY, MAN. LOGIC IS SCARY. LEAVE THAT CRAP IN RL WHERE IT BELONGS.

Not that anyone on this forum believes it’s remotely possible to over-manpower an issue, nosirree…>_<

I mean hell. Nikolai did exactly what people asked him to and explained in plain words why maps aren't a priority at the moment - despite the onrushing introduction of 'Mech Factory - and instead of thanking him for the honesty and openness people specifically asked from him, they put on their cynic hats and started bashing Piranha afresh for Not Making Things That Don't Cost MC inside six posts of him being an up-front guy about the whole thing.

Did it ever occur to any of you people that mebbe, just mebbe, they can only afford one intense resource drain that doesn't go to the pocketbook at a time? Do you want new maps or do you want Commodity Warfare? Sounds to me like they can put their focus on one or the other, but not both. They had most of the work done on 'Mech Factory so they can manage to hammer that one out and kick it out the door whilst CW is in progress, but I think it'd be enlightening to see what Nik would say if someone asked him how working up a brand new map fresh from scratch would impact the timeline for Commodity Warfare module development.

And whether or not it's those few guys working steadily on new 'Mech releases that're the low-resource money tap for keeping the rest of the game's development chugging along, ne?

[Sandpit]

1453 R, on 24 July 2014 - 12:53 PM, said:

HEY, MAN. LOGIC IS SCARY. LEAVE THAT CRAP IN RL WHERE IT BELONGS.

Not that anyone on this forum believes it’s remotely possible to over-manpower an issue, nosirree…>_<

I mean hell. Nikolai did exactly what people asked him to and explained in plain words why maps aren't a priority at the moment - despite the onrushing introduction of 'Mech Factory - and instead of thanking him for the honesty and openness people specifically asked from him, they put on their cynic hats and started bashing Piranha afresh for Not Making Things That Don't Cost MC inside six posts of him being an up-front guy about the whole thing.

Did it ever occur to any of you people that mebbe, just mebbe, they can only afford one intense resource drain that doesn't go to the pocketbook at a time? Do you want new maps or do you want Commodity Warfare? Sounds to me like they can put their focus on one or the other, but not both. They had most of the work done on 'Mech Factory so they can manage to hammer that one out and kick it out the door whilst CW is in progress, but I think it'd be enlightening to see what Nik would say if someone asked him how working up a brand new map fresh from scratch would impact the timeline for Commodity Warfare module development.

And whether or not it's those few guys working steadily on new 'Mech releases that're the low-resource money tap for keeping the rest of the game's development chugging along, ne?

good points

now to offer a counterpoint based on the title of the thread

You can produce new mechs
You can implement new mechs
You can keep your regular distribution model for mechs

That's a lot different than an MC or $$ Mech Pack before CW. I understand your premise and agree with a lot fo what you said, IE only working on one thing at a time, but that means we want other stuff that some of us have been waiting on for nearly 3 years before they decide to shut down production on everything else again for 6 months.

[Kristen Redmond]

Clans just need the 16? 3050 TRO Mechs, and beef up the IS Mech repertoire by a lot (10+ more). Thats a good place to be. Not that I dont think there are a good amount of Mechs now, because I do.

I'd personally like to see Map production be put before Mech production.

[1453 R]

Sandpit, on 24 July 2014 - 01:19 PM, said:

good points

now to offer a counterpoint based on the title of the thread

You can produce new mechs
You can implement new mechs
You can keep your regular distribution model for mechs

That's a lot different than an MC or $$ Mech Pack before CW. I understand your premise and agree with a lot fo what you said, IE only working on one thing at a time, but that means we want other stuff that some of us have been waiting on for nearly 3 years before they decide to shut down production on everything else again for 6 months.

The title of the thread became a dead letter something like seven pages ago, mang. The argument these days seems to be the production of absolutely anything taking away from Commodity Warfare and thus being unacceptable.

Want that Mauler Piranha's been teasing for months? NOPE. No new 'Mechs for jOO, Commodity Warfare first!

Want that 'Mech Factory map they're almost done with and nearly ready to release? NOPE. No new maps for jOO, Commodity Warfare first!

Want a new set of regularly purchaseable warhorns some dude with modeling experience and some sound bytes could toss off in an afternoon? NOPE. No warhorns for jOO, Commodity Warfare first!

Want some new neon paint colors that literally glow in the dark? NOPE. No new paints for jOO, Commodity Warfare first!

This boneheaded, intransigent insistence that Piranha must devote 117% of its resources to Commodity Warfare is completely ridiculous and needs to stop Like Nikolai said, there's only so much that additional manpower can do to speed the process along. Eventually you reach a point where coordinating the efforts of all the disparate people you've got on the project takes more time and energy than would simply letting a smaller number of folks go at it and do what they're good at. Even if every person they have is an omnidisciplinary genius who's completely trained on every tool they have to work on the different parts of the game (spoilers: i HIGHLY doubt that), there really, truly does come a point where there's nothing left for anyone else bolted onto a project to do.

There's nothing wrong with them keeping up their regularly scheduled monthly 'Mech releases. There's nothing wrong with them throwing out the occasional bone to people who don't give a rat about CW and get a bit of a kick out of fresh colors/camos/cockpit swag. There's nothing wrong with them finishing work on maps they've already half-built or better, given The Community's incendiary nerdrage over the fact that we don't have sixty maps in the game yet. Do we really, truly want them to knock all that crap off just so that the Commodity Warfare people can have a bunch of guys at loose ends hanging over their shoulders trying to figure out what to do with themselves?

[Sandpit]

1453 R, on 24 July 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

The title of the thread became a dead letter something like seven pages ago, mang. The argument these days seems to be the production of absolutely anything taking away from Commodity Warfare and thus being unacceptable.

uhm no?
It's about exactly what the topic says. All the "no" and "no more mechs" are in reference to that thread title.

3 years of development.
60 maps?
we have 10
we have 3 game modes (which actually we have 2 because assault and conquest are identical just additional cap points)

People aren't complaining and "raging" because they dont' have 60 maps

People are "raging" and complaining because the company just shut down production on everything except clans for six months to produce 8 new mechs. There's a huge difference in

"They're nerdraging because they don't have 60 maps"
and being upset because they have 10 maps after 3 years and the OP asked how they would feel if PGI pulls another (for the third time in the past year mind you) "Buy this mech pack now, we'll get back to work on other stuff in 6 months"

There's a huge difference in the scenario I laid out and what you're trying to get dismissed as "nerd rage"

Where have I, or anyone else for that matter, said "don't work on anything but CW!"?

Anyone saying that is definitely not saying and asking for the same thing that the majority of people in this thread have. You can't use the occasional anomaly and.or outlier to discredit or dismiss those that aren't saying anything like that

[1453 R]

Sandpit, on 24 July 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

response snip

Can you blame me for finding that as hard to believe as you find any progress on CW to be to believe?

Piranha’s already said they’re not doing any more big-release ‘Mech packs before Commodity Warfare Mod1 releases, and yet people are giving them all the same grief as if they’d just immediately announced a fat Clanbuster pack the day after the Invasion ‘Mechs hit. I get that the Commodity Warfare guys want What They Were Promised™, and that they feel – with justification, no doubt about that – that everyone else has already gotten theirs.

But there are so many poisonous, crusty bassholes out there harping on Commodity Warfare in all the wrong ways that sometimes I honestly can’t help but wonder if maybe Technoviking was more right than he thought, and that Piranha would be better off just never releasing Commodity Warfare in full. Put in some group management tools, some better laddering systems, and for the love of GOD just rip out their social interface altogether and replace it with something functional, hold more regular tournaments and put in the tools in-game for players to host their own tournaments…let the players do their thing.


Because I honestly don’t think any level of CW will be enough anymore. They can introduce CW Mod1 perfectly on time as promised (recently promised, after-they-got-their-****-together promised) and all the same poisonous, crusty bassholes will continue to harp on them in exactly the same way for not putting in the rest of CW. They could add in the Loyalty system the next patch after that and finally release those Project Phoenix medallions people are still buttsore over, and it wouldn’t change a thing.

They could release the star map; they could release a Planetary Domination game mode complete with all the buy-your-own-dropship hullaballoo, they could release the customization systems that let you dress up your ‘Mech in your chosen faction’s colors and markings, they could release the updated in-game achievement system that let you earn membership in legendary units of the lore. They could hire new people specifically to play the key figures of the timeline and start directing events with their factions. They could institute a full-out ISN system, with in-depth articles covering major events and long-term coverage of evolving stories as well as daily snippets.

They could do all of that, and the Commodity warfare people would still pitch and groan that it wasn’t enough, that they haven’t gotten What They Were Promised™ yet.

It will never be okay to the Commodity Warfare folks to release another ‘Mech pack, at any time, for any reason. Or to shelve primary CW development for a while and turn the focus back onto maps. Or to make any sort of serious change to underlying game systems or mechanics that’d fix problems but take a lot of effort and testing to work.

It will never be okay, for Commodity Warfare people, for Piranha to work on anything but Commodity Warfare ever again. And frankly, that’s as bad for the long-term health of the game as no Commodity Warfare at all would be.

Edited by 1453 R, 24 July 2014 - 02:37 PM.