57 replies to this topic

[Jody Von Jedi]

Malleus011, on 23 July 2014 - 06:42 AM, said:

In canon lore? The Raven 3L should be the only IS 'mech with ECM. Cicada's didn't have it. (Neither did any of the other IS ECM 'mechs we have right now). PGI is basically making up which 'mechs can have ECM.

Thank you. I've never researched ECM mechs, so this is an eye opener to me.

[Livewyr]

Jack Corban, on 23 July 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

The funny thing is if they had added proper radar and passive radar in the game ECM wouldn't be so OP.

If they chose to implement ECM correctly, it would not be so OP.

(I rather approve of not giving us Active Radar.. at least not in the way Mech 4 did it. MW4 radar all but eliminated stealth movement and guerrilla warfare, leaving only "Bring the biggest guns." The only reason people played anything lighter was either a love and favoritism, or they loved the lagshield provided.)

[Almond Brown]

Silly is in abundance around here. More complaining about ECM despite it being known it will not be changed. I guess that makes both Whine and Cheese also in abundance.

[mogs01gt]

Livewyr, on 23 July 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

If they chose to implement ECM correctly, it would not be so OP.
(I rather approve of not giving us Active Radar.. at least not in the way Mech 4 did it. MW4 radar all but eliminated stealth movement and guerrilla warfare, leaving only "Bring the biggest guns." The only reason people played anything lighter was either a love and favoritism, or they loved the lagshield provided.)

Yeah I really do hate our COD radar. Lights and Mediums could be a lot more effective at flanking without it. Their speed is almost a mute point in battles some times.

Edited by mogs01gt, 23 July 2014 - 06:59 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

Livewyr, on 23 July 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

(I rather approve of not giving us Active Radar.. at least not in the way Mech 4 did it. MW4 radar all but eliminated stealth movement and guerrilla warfare, leaving only "Bring the biggest guns." The only reason people played anything lighter was either a love and favoritism, or they loved the lagshield provided.)

I never really played MW4 multiplayer more than a couple of times. Why was that implementation of active / passive radar so bad? I forget. Why did it end up as 'bring the biggest guns'?

[Jack Corban]

Livewyr, on 23 July 2014 - 06:55 AM, said:

If they chose to implement ECM correctly, it would not be so OP.

(I rather approve of not giving us Active Radar.. at least not in the way Mech 4 did it. MW4 radar all but eliminated stealth movement and guerrilla warfare, leaving only "Bring the biggest guns." The only reason people played anything lighter was either a love and favoritism, or they loved the lagshield provided.)

You do realize that you could run passive for that and that ECM would help with that aswell. So would BAP in countering it and so on. Radar as it was shown in Mechcommander games and MW Series before worked at least. Then again we had actual maps back then and not arenas to fight in so there's that.

Edited by Jack Corban, 23 July 2014 - 07:04 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

EvilCow, on 23 July 2014 - 06:22 AM, said:

While avoiding admitting it and finally do something about it.

It looks like it is somebody's pet project and cannot be touched.

That's exactly what it is.

[SgtMagor]

cant wait for my ECM Warhammer, um Hellbringer. yup yup War is Hell

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 23 July 2014 - 07:00 AM, said:

I never really played MW4 multiplayer more than a couple of times. Why was that implementation of active / passive radar so bad? I forget. Why did it end up as 'bring the biggest guns'?

Basically, MW4 gave you a version of Seismic Sensors (minus the blinky dots) that had a 1000m radius (1200m if you had BAP) that let you achieve radar lock on enemies (who have active radar engaged) within that huge radius. Enemies running passive radar were detectable somewhere between 250-400 meters (I can't remember). If you had passive radar mode on, you'd be harder to detect but you also couldn't see the enemy either.

ECM in MW4 reduced the enemys' ability to detect you (you could get closer before being seen) and BAP extended your detection range.


Translated to MWO, active radar would be the current LoS radar, and passive mode would reduce your detection range and detectability ("Ghetto ECM"). We wouldn't need to give everyone a free 1000m Seismic Sensor like MW4 did...

Edited by FupDup, 23 July 2014 - 07:20 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Basically, MW4 gave you a version of Seismic Sensors (minus the blinky dots) that had a 1000m radius (1200m if you had BAP) that let you achieve radar lock on enemies (who have active radar engaged) within that huge radius. Enemies running passive radar were detectable somewhere between 250-400 meters (I can't remember).
ECM in MW4 reduced the enemys' ability to detect you (you could get closer before being seen) and BAP extended your detection range.

Well, if you could only detect enemies with passive radar at 250 meters or so, this actually sounds great to me. Not so sure about the ability to detect enemies regardless of line of sight, but... I'd certainly prefer some version of active / passive radar to what we have now.

#Informationwarfare2015.

#Istillbelieve.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 23 July 2014 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well, if you could only detect enemies with passive radar at 250 meters or so, this actually sounds great to me. Not so sure about the ability to detect enemies regardless of line of sight, but... I'd certainly prefer some version of active / passive radar to what we have now.

#Informationwarfare2015.

#Istillbelieve.

See my ninja edit:

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 07:14 AM, said:

Translated to MWO, active radar would be the current LoS radar, and passive mode would reduce your detection range and detectability ("Ghetto ECM"). We wouldn't need to give everyone a free 1000m Seismic Sensor like MW4 did...

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 07:21 AM, said:

See my ninja edit:

It's not a ninja edit if it happened after I posted, little grasshopper

But if the active radar can't detect mechs with passive radar outside 250 meters, what's the problem? The only ones using active radar would be LRM boats, no? It's not like you can counter seismic sensors by stepping lightly, so it's not exactly a 1000 m seismic sensor.

[FupDup]

Alistair Winter, on 23 July 2014 - 07:25 AM, said:

It's not a ninja edit if it happened after I posted, little grasshopper

But if the active radar can't detect mechs with passive radar outside 250 meters, what's the problem? The only ones using active radar would be LRM boats, no? It's not like you can counter seismic sensors by stepping lightly, so it's not exactly a 1000 m seismic sensor.

Well, I'm a Seismic user (even after all the nerfs) and its current 250m radius is still ridiculously useful and one of the best modules in the game. If we directly ported MW4 mechanics, it would be like upgrading Seismic to work while moving and allow you to get radar locks (red triangles) of people in that radius, and giving it to every mech in the game for free...and that's if your enemy was running passive. If they had active on, you'd get a super-duper Seismic on steroids that worked basically across the map in every direction from where you were standing.

Oh, and my Seismic analogy isn't really perfect, because MW4 also let you detect enemies (with or without LoS) who were moving (whereas Seismic is just for enemies who are moving).

[Xavier]

this line is directly from SARNA regarding clan ECM....

In the Clans, the Guardian ECM suite was used as the basis for an improved ECM Suite. This system can be found in every Clan's touman. They weigh a single ton, and can be mounted on nearly anything.

[Sandslice]

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 06:23 AM, said:

Or Piggy will simply choose not to ever give us the Hellbie, because of that reason.

If we don't get the Hellbie, it won't be because of ECM; after all, the opportunity cost of running Loki is that you aren't running the overpowered Wooden Puppy or the potentially effective Mad Dog.

Rather, if we don't get the Hellbie, it's because they couldn't art a Hellbie, balancing the double needs of arting a sufficiently true-to-TRO Hellbie and having it be sufficiently different from a Warhammer.

[mogs01gt]

LoL I didnt plan on this turning into an ECM discussion . Fail!

[Alistair Winter]

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Well, I'm a Seismic user (even after all the nerfs) and its current 250m radius is still ridiculously useful and one of the best modules in the game. If we directly ported MW4 mechanics, it would be like upgrading Seismic to work while moving and allow you to get radar locks (red triangles) of people in that radius, and giving it to every mech in the game for free...and that's if your enemy was running passive. If they had active on, you'd get a super-duper Seismic on steroids that worked basically across the map in every direction from where you were standing.
Oh, and my Seismic analogy isn't really perfect, because MW4 also let you detect enemies (with or without LoS) who were moving (whereas Seismic is just for enemies who are moving).

Alright, I guess that would really turn things rather bleak for stealthy light mech pilots. But I think it could be implemented if the values were applied correctly. For example, it makes no sense that a Locust should be as easy to detect as a Dire Wolf. If you could only detect and get a lock on an assault mech from 200 meters, then what if the scale was 150, 100 and 50 meters for heavy, medium and light mechs respectively? And with a similar scale for active radar, which allowed light mechs to detect Stalker LRM boats before they were detected themselves... well, it certainly seems like it could be beneficial to the game, if correctly implemented.

mogs01gt, on 23 July 2014 - 07:46 AM, said:

LoL I didnt plan on this turning into an ECM discussion . Fail!

Edited by Alistair Winter, 23 July 2014 - 07:50 AM.

[627]

[Jack Corban]

FupDup, on 23 July 2014 - 07:33 AM, said:

Well, I'm a Seismic user (even after all the nerfs) and its current 250m radius is still ridiculously useful and one of the best modules in the game. If we directly ported MW4 mechanics, it would be like upgrading Seismic to work while moving and allow you to get radar locks (red triangles) of people in that radius, and giving it to every mech in the game for free...and that's if your enemy was running passive. If they had active on, you'd get a super-duper Seismic on steroids that worked basically across the map in every direction from where you were standing.

Oh, and my Seismic analogy isn't really perfect, because MW4 also let you detect enemies (with or without LoS) who were moving (whereas Seismic is just for enemies who are moving).

And this is simply BS. Because you would only be able to lock on to targets previously seen. All you giot before was a radar blip. Don't try to change the facts into your favor. Also If you can see it you can shoot it regardless of radar.

This discussion is over. Your argument is invalid.

Edited by Jack Corban, 23 July 2014 - 08:35 AM.

[Hillslam]

Make ECM non-stackable and you're done.

Its fine. The butthurt is over played